atheism

[Vanquisher]

Just for fun...

As most of you know, I am an atheist. So, out of curiousity, when you hear that someone is an atheist what comes to your mind?

Immorality? Pity? They are going to hell?

I am really curious about this because I wonder if my lack of faith costs me possible friendships for a combination of reasons. I have heard the gammut, but I am curious as to what you all (highly intelligent) people think immediately upon hearing that someone is an atheist. What is your first reaction? Do you want to save me?

This is something that a lot of people will not talk to me about, even my own mother. She won't go there in a conversation with me. I think my mother believes I am going to hell, and she hates to think of this because it is hard for her to justify her faith in her religion/God with her love for her family. How do you beleive your daughter is not worthy of your God's presence when man is fallable and there is no proof of God's existence beyond faith? Furthermore, is it possible for an atheist to have a meaningful relationship with another person without acquiescing to the other's belief system?

[alison]

Atheist here too. Dh's grandmother was concerned about where we would get married "in my condition." I honestly couldn't care less what other people think, but that isn't the question here. I would definitely feel differently in your position though, Heidi, because it concerns your immediate family.

My first thought. Hmmnnn.... I would say my very first thought is that I hope the atheist (ironically) doesn't feel the need to be a zealot and "convert" me or make assumptions about my intelligence because I'm not one. But I have pretty much the same thoughts when I encounter evangelicals, nondenominational folks (much more common in the South, don't you know).

For the latter groups, those feelings arise from multiple past experiences where those friends will suddenly (out of the blue) launch a soul-saving mission on "my" behalf. With most friends, I don't tend to talk much about religion.

My in-laws are agnostic (MIL) and atheist (FIL). At in-law dinners MIL will say / participate in a quick grace before the meal. For a short time, FIL developed this annoying habit of actively mumbling guttural noises during the short grace. He stopped after doing that a few times because the looks we gave him (including MIL) conveyed that we thought that was really rude. Not because we didn't already know that he thinks our prayers are meaningless but the common courtesy of the thing.

[DCJenn]

Athiest/Humanist here, too.

I don't know how much it matters to my friends. My family runs the gamut from full on Catholicism to Presbyterians and Episcopalians and one Eastern Orthodox branch. We don't talk about it unless it comes up in context with our never-ending political discussions. (House rules- have an opinion and be able to defend it. We don't care what the opinion is, but you can't spout off and not be able to defend your position)

Nikolai may have been baptised w/in the Russian Orthodox religion. I'm of the opinion that he can go to whatever services he wants to, if he wants to. I'll take him myself once he's a little older.

I appreciate what religion can bring to people's lives (finally- took me a while to get there) and I like going to services with friends just to see what the deal is all about.

I would hope that I haven't lost friends by being non-religious but if I did then they weren't meant to be my friend anyway.

Jenn

Dh's grandmother was concerned about where we would get married "in my condition."

My great-aunt was concerned about me marrying into an "alien faith" (Hinduism). That said, I'm more spiritual and buy into more of Hinduism than dh does ...

As far as atheism, I have no opinion one way or another. I like the way Kevin phrased it -- I don't want to be convinced by an athiest or "saved" by a Christian who does that sort of thing (Sally - help me! What term do I use besides Evangelical, as I know not all Evangelicals do this?

I believe in a God, or a higher power (whether it be one or many beings or facets). I believe in reincarnation of the soul. I do not believe in organized religion or scheduled worship as a way to "earn" your way into a good place. I believe living a kind and generous life will provide good karma, which is the best I can ask for.

I don't mind if someone prays for me, baptizes me behind my back, or whatever ... I try to look at it as their version of "good will" and wanting to do kind things.

I would certainly not discount a friend based on atheism.

[Vanquisher]

As far as atheism, I have no opinion one way or another. I like the way Kevin phrased it -- I don't want to be convinced by an athiest

That's the thing! I have never known an atheist who says, this is why you shouldn't beleive in God...

However, I have had bibles given to me, books of mormon, prayers offered, and I am constantly asked what church I go to. I find it kind of odd, to be honest, that others are concerned that atheists will try to convert them away. I really don't understand it because there is no benefit to this. It's not like we have an atheist meeting where we want everyone to give us 10% of their income. :huh:

[Sheherezade]

My atheist stereotype tends to be a middle aged college educated woman from the 1940s. SOmeone who has rejected all that baloney and pulled the blinders off. A woman of science/letters that considers religion in direct contradiction to realism. That's my gut image. :> I have no idea why - except that I believe I read about a very activist founder of atheism that fit that general description once upon a time.

I do think that in the past atheists have been activist. I think that their primary tactic was ridicule of "fantastic" or antiquated belief systems. The term "mythology" was often used -- and has been used in the last week in on this board. For many, that's explosive language. I think "agnostic" as a designation came along in reaction to the war between the atheists and the religious. At one time in my life, I read about this regularly, but it was long ago. Agnostics sit on the fence -- not claiming to have the answer. Is God real? Who knows? By not claiming a postion, you validate both sides and reject both sides at once. I know agnostics claim to "belief" but not practice or care to heartily --- I'm not sure what that means. I'm sorry for any poor interpretations. This is just an explanation of my own stereotypes of religion.

I've never held religious beliefs against anyone -- as long as they generally belief in the "golden rule". I would have trouble being impartial about religious cults that make sacrifices of people or participate in rituals that demean/hurt others. I have my limits. :>

[Vanquisher]

Lily,I think the type of thing you and others are describing is reactionary to being an atheist and the types of comments we hear from others regarding how we choose to not believe.

For example, if I placed the following picture in my signature line



I *know* that I would be asked to remove it. Whereas, I belong to a number of internet sites where people ask for prayers, and have quoted scriptures in their signature lines.

It feels as though there are a few minority groups of people where upon it is not only okay to discriminate against them but condoned. Anyone who has ever been fat knows that people look at you differently and treat you differently. If you are an atheist, people assume that you lack morality and assign a lot of other false stereotypes to you. I think atheists sometimes feel the need to be activists because of the pervasive nature of religion in public arenas and the active discrimination against them.

Heidi,

The Michelangelo fan club has hired attorneys. They ask you to cease and desist from ever using his work in such a profane way again.

I'm halfway there with you. In that I think some people (of all faiths including non-faiths such as atheism) will at times become defensive in the presence of those who believe differently. That's just human nature and that's not going to change.

An earlier piece about proselytizing ________ fill in the blank. At least for myself, I'm not afraid of hearing from __________ groups, I just find it personally tiresome. A lot of times those discussions are fruitless because the matters are of such consequence that the defensiveness issue plays out. At other times, folks start from such radically different premises (then pour in emotion) and a powder keg is about to blow. So, I find it (personally) a waste of energy.

I imagine it really must feel like "you against" the world at times especially given the two main locales you have for context -- Mormon Utah (?) and South Carolina.

I think you and I would be suprised at the commonalities we would find under the surface. I cringe at notions of Ten Commandments / Prayer in School etc. Yet, the funny thing is on the surface you might think I would have more in common with that crowd than you. Hell, remember I'm not even a Christian to them. That said, I can't relate to the ER Doc a couple of years ago that got his panties in a wad over the pledge of allegiance for his child who didn't even live with him anymore.

In the academic environment, the default is usually no faith and folks who practice _________ faith are at often seen at the least quaint simple folk and at worst are seen as raging imbeciles and bigots (even when all logical signs point to "no" on those conclusions).

I think America as a whole is kind of hard to define. But I think all of our lives are so comfortable materially that consumerism seems to be the faith of the day. But I'll stop there.

Phew. I feel better. Ten minutes closer to the match.

For example, if I placed the following picture in my signature line



I *know* that I would be asked to remove it. Whereas, I belong to a number of internet sites where people ask for prayers, and have quoted scriptures in their signature lines.

To me the difference between a picture like that and someone quoting scripture in a signature, it that the picture mocks or pokes fun at the idea of heaven or angels or God (whatever the religious believe that pictures shows). A line of scripture doesn't poke fun at people who do not believe, it merely states what that person DOES believe.

[pstone]

Any chance I get you to read "The Power of Myth" ?

Seriously. Any chance?

[pstone]

Okay, okay...I was an athiest, now I Know god exists, but not a personal, big father, watch over the earth kind of god. But a force yes, that I am made of.

[Vanquisher]

Any chance I get you to read "The Power of Myth" ?

Seriously. Any chance?

Who me? I am open to read anything. Except religious doctrine. I won't read that. If you had any idea how many times I have heard, "If you just read the bible and pray about it, I know you will believe."

Ummm, I have read the Bible. I WAS a Christian. And just whom am I supposed to pray to, if I don't believe anyone is listening. Aren't I just talking to myself? Don't some people think that talking to oneself is a symptom of the crazies?

Seriously, I have three books from the library right now. None of which I expect to finish before they are due back. When people find time to read when there is so much time to be spent on fruitless debates on iMSN I will never understand. I will add it to my list.

[pstone]

It is not Religous doctrine of any kind...

Actually it is a series of interviews by Bill Moyers of Joesph Campbell....

I think you would love it!

[Sheherezade]

I have several Joseph Campbell things. They are fab. I also recommend the Power of Myth.