Rev up your debate skills: IS JESUS, GOD?

Gee Lily. Thanks for giving Kevin something to distract him from the match!

[pstone]

Jesus was / is a Buddha.

As in he was a teacher and enlightened one. We can all have and be what jesus was if you follow his, or buddhas, or any religions myths.

so...he was a human, like all of us, with a spiritual awareness I can only hope to have.

[mommax3]

I believe Jesus is God. During his time on earth, he was both fully God and fully man.

Matthew 1:20-23 "But after he (Joseph) had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, (Joseph was thinking about divorcing Mary since she was pregnant and he knew he was not the father of the child) because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins." All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: "the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" -- which means "God with us."

The prophet quoted in the above passage is Isaiah, and the quote is from Isaiah 7:14: "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."

John 1:1-18
"In the beginning was the Word, and Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. (the author of this passage and the cousin of Jesus) He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. He himself (meaning John) was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. He (meaning Jesus) was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God -- children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me becuase he was before me.'" From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

John 12:44-46
"Then Jesus cried out, "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness."

John 14:9-11
"Jesus answered, "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves."

Philippians 2:6-11
"Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death -- even death on a cross! Therefore Gd exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

A note in my Bible explaining this passage states "the incarnation was the act of the preexistent Son of God voluntarily assuming a human body and human nature. Without ceasing to be God, he became a human being, the man called Jesus. He did not give up his deity to become human, but he set aside the right to his glory and power. In submission to the Father's will, Christ limited his power and knowledge. Jesus of Nazareth was subject to place, time, and many other human limitations. What made his humanity unique was his freedom from sin. In his full humanity, Jesus showed us everything about God's character that can be conveyed in human terms." It goes on to state that that the incarnation is explained further in these passages: Romans 1:2-5 2 Corinthians 8:9; Hebrews 2:14; and 1 John 1:1-3

1 Timothy 1:15-17 "Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners -- of whom I (meaning the writer, Timothy) am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen." (The bolded words are all referencing the same person.)

I have to end with this, also from 1 Timothy.

1 Timothy 3:16 "Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He (meaning Jesus) appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached mong the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory."

Part of faith is believing in "mystery", and personally, if I am going to believe in a god, I want that god to be capable of more than I can understand, humanly speaking.

Sally

[Stella]

Re: Rev up your debate skills: IS JESUS, GOD?

Thomas Aquinas drew on John Damascene's concept that the human life and nature of Christ is an instrument of the divine person who has taken on that nature: Christ's humanity as God's perfect tool. A tool is something which lends its form to its agent so that he can shape the effects produced by its means, effects which it cannot produce by itself but only as used by it agent.

THis definitely rings with me. It's still something I'm trying to wrap my mind around, although that doesn't detract from aspiring to the teachings of Christ, IMO.

I like this, Annie.

Anyway, I believe that Jesus was a devine human being sent to Earth by God's will as a teacher in the flesh. His spirit was divine and his body was mortal. I think that similar concepts are true in us all, but that we are not perfect like Jesus and his teachings are a way for us to improve our spirit's likeness with God. (Hence, dust to dust, Ash Wednesday, etc.)

I think that Jesus is God in that he is an extension of God. He is the teacher, the divine prophet, and he is conscious of his place. This sets Him apart from humans because we don't see ourselves from God and from Earth at the same time. This is why faith is a challenge.

1 Timothy 3:16 "Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He (meaning Jesus) appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached mong the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory."

In his full humanity, Jesus showed us everything about God's character that can be conveyed in human terms.

Exactly.

Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me.

[PrincessFiona]

short answer...
I don't know

kris

[fluffhead]

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me.

That does not deny the existence of other gods or god-heads; it implies that this particular god wants to be the top banana.

This is actually a misinterpretation of the the commandment. The original Hebrew is not "before me" but "al panai" which means "in my presence" or "as long as I'm around."
So if you truly believe that the old testament or ten commandments are still relevant, then worshiping another entity as "God" would not be something you'd want to do.