Imus

[Momo]

Oh, and Davita, thank you again for demonstrating the complete ignorance so many have about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members.

I meant to say priesthood. I am well aware that there were black members earlier in the church ...

Davita, thanks for the correction ! It seems you made an honset mistake and corrected yourself !

Tabula rasa/Jen, I apologize if you felt my endorsing Davita's post was a slight against LDS or the accidental mis-statement she made...it was more of an endorsement of the overall ideas in her posts. I tend to rely on unbiased academic sources for info on a religion...so please rest assured ( at least in my case) I try not to base my sole ideas about a faith, from individuals that share their stories on line.

[rainbabies]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/13/martin.imus/index.html

Commentary: Imus might be spark for debate on sexism
POSTED: 12:22 p.m. EDT, April 13, 2007
By Roland S. Martin
CNN Contributor
Adjust font size:
Editor's note: Roland S. Martin is a CNN contributor and a talk-show host for WVON-AM in Chicago.

(CNN) -- No one would have thought that when Rosa Parks opted not to give up her seat to a white man in 1955, a dozen years later blacks would have the full right to vote, the ability to eat in hotels and restaurants and see Jim Crow destroyed.

We might look back in a few years and come to realize that the removal of Don Imus from the public airwaves put America on a course that changed the dialogue on what is acceptable to say in public forums.

The downfall of a long, successful and controversial career, on the surface, took eight days. But for Imus, this has actually been 30 years in the making. He has used his sexual and racial schtick to pad his pocketbook. Only this time, he ran up against a group of women who presented such a compelling story, his bosses couldn't ignore the reality of his sexist and racist rant.

Although the National Association of Black Journalists led the fight to oust Imus, there is no doubt that it was that moving news conference by the Rutgers University women's basketball team that cemented the demise of Imus. Vivian Stringer was poised and strong in demanding that America look at the 10 women and see them as the real face of Imus's slurs.

And that is really the issue we must focus on. So many people tried to make this a race issue. But for me, that wasn't the primary point. I never wavered from the attack as one of a sexist. It didn't matter that he was trying to be funny. He insulted a group of women who are already accomplished.

Then again, that happens to women every day.

Sen. Hillary Clinton, a New York Democrat, is smart and talented, but to many, she's nothing but an opportunist. She's called too aggressive, not cute and is slammed regularly. But she should be praised for being a woman who has achieved a lot in her career.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is portrayed as a bumbling idiot, but her academic credentials are impeccable. You can disagree with her ideology, but to question her womanhood is silly.

Women all across this country have to play by a different standard. They often make less than men, even when doing the same job; are accused of being too tough when they are the boss; and are treated as sexual objects.

America, we have a problem with sexism. Don't try to make this whole matter about the ridiculous rants made by rappers. I deplore what's in a lot of their music and videos, but hip-hop is only 30 years old. So you mean to tell me that sexism in America only started in 1977?

Now is the time for this nation to undergo a direct examination of the depths of sexism. My media colleagues shouldn't go just for the easy target rap lyrics. That is no doubt a logical next step, but sexism is so much deeper. It is embedded in our churches, synagogues, mosques, schools, Fortune 500 companies and in the political arena. We should target our resources to this issue and raise the consciousness of people, and expose the reality.

Don Imus should not be the period. He can be the comma. Civil rights organizations, media entities, women's groups and others have an opportunity that they can't pass up. We have the chance to seize the moment to begin a conversation -- an in-depth one -- that has the opportunity to redefine America along the lines of race and sex.

I hope and pray that we have the courage to do so.

[MrsC]

I really think that racism, discrimination etc. is pretty much unavoidable in a country with people from so many different backgrounds, religions, cultures. The U.S is really unique. How many other countries have such diversity. I mean in the grand scheme of things it works pretty well but honestly, I don't think it's possible not to have these problems.

I've been on the receiving end of discrimination myself. I was told by a customs officer that I should stay in my own country!! At the end of the day, that's the way people are. It doesn't keep me awake at night. People are harsh, people are cruel, they're stupid, ignorant and scared. That's not going to change overnight. It's not going to change by debating and fighting. It's up to us to educate our children and ensure that future generations are less ignorant. It is the only possible way we can change things.

[rainbabies]

op-ed piece by Harvey Fierstein just published in The New York Times.

"Our Prejudices, Ourselves"

AMERICA is watching Don Imus's self-immolation in a state of shock and awe. And I'm watching America with wry amusement.

Since I'm a second-class citizen -- a gay man -- my seats for the ballgame of American discourse are way back in the bleachers. I don't have to wait long for a shock jock or stand-up comedian to slip up with hateful epithets aimed at me and mine. Hate speak against homosexuals is as commonplace as spam. It's daily traffic for those who profess themselves to be regular Joes, men of God, public servants who live off my tax dollars, as well as any number of celebrities.

In fact, I get a good chuckle whenever someone refers to "the media" as an agent of "the gay agenda." There are entire channels, like Spike TV, that couldn't fill an hour of programming if required to remove their sexist and homophobic content. We've got a president and a large part of Congress willing to change the Constitution so they can deprive of us our rights because they feel we are not "normal."

So I'm used to catching foul balls up here in the cheap seats. What I am really enjoying is watching the rest of you act as if you had no idea that prejudice was alive and well in your hearts and minds.

For the past two decades political correctness has been derided as a surrender to thin-skinned, humorless, uptight oversensitive sissies. Well, you anti-politically correct people have won the battle, and we're all now feasting on the spoils of your victory. During the last few months alone we've had a few comedians spout racism, a basketball coach put forth anti-Semitism and several high-profile spoutings of anti-gay epithets.

What surprises me, I guess, is how choosy the anti-P.C. crowd is about which hate speech it will not tolerate. Sure, there were voices of protest when the TV actor Isaiah Washington called a gay colleague a "faggot." But corporate America didn't pull its advertising from "Grey's Anatomy," as it did with Mr. Imus, did it? And when Ann Coulter likewise tagged a presidential candidate last month, she paid no real price.

In fact, when Bill Maher discussed Ms. Coulter's remarks on his HBO show, he repeated the slur no fewer than four times himself; each mention, I must note, solicited a laugh from his audience. No one called for any sort of apology from him. (Well, actually, I did, so the following week he only used it once.)

Face it, if a Pentagon general, his salary paid with my tax dollars, can label homosexual acts as "immoral" without a call for his dismissal, who are the moral high and mighty kidding?

Our nation, historically bursting with generosity toward strangers, remains remarkably unkind toward its own. Just under our gleaming patina of inclusiveness, we harbor corroding guts. America, I tell you that it doesn't matter how many times you brush your teeth. If your insides are rotting your breath will stink. So, how do you people choose which hate to embrace, which to forgive with a wink and a week in rehab, and which to protest? Where's my copy of that rule book?

Let me cite a non-volatile example of how prejudice can cohabit unchecked with good intentions. I am a huge fan of David Letterman's. I watch the opening of his show a couple of times a week and have done so for decades. Without fail, in his opening monologue or skit Mr. Letterman makes a joke about someone being fat. I kid you not. Will that destroy our nation? Should he be fired or lose his sponsors? Obviously not.

But I think that there is something deeper going on at the Letterman studio than coincidence. And, as I've said, I cite this example simply to illustrate that all kinds of prejudice exist in the human heart. Some are harmless. Some not so harmless. But we need to understand who we are if we wish to change. (In the interest of full disclosure, I should confess to not only being a gay American, but also a fat one. Yes, I'm a double winner.)

I urge you to look around, or better yet, listen around and become aware of the prejudice in everyday life. We are so surrounded by expressions of intolerance that I am in shock and awe that anyone noticed all these recent high-profile instances. Still, I'm gladdened because our no longer being deaf to them may signal their eventual eradication.

The real point is that you cannot harbor malice toward others and then cry foul when someone displays intolerance against you. Prejudice tolerated is intolerance encouraged. Rise up in righteousness when you witness the words and deeds of hate, but only if you are willing to rise up against them all, including your own. Otherwise suffer the slings and arrows of disrespect silently.

Harvey Fierstein is an actor and playwright.

I am one that does not believe the playing field is not level. Everyone had equal chances, neither me or my wife came from money, and my wife is first one to even go to college in her family. Look forward or look backward.

Woah woah woah...

How can the "playing field" possibly be level? Everyone has equal chances? That's impossible!

I'm really happy that your wife is the first one in her family to go to college- I am too. I'm also white, live in a nice middle class neighborhood, went to a close-knit grade/middle school, and went to one of the best high schools in the state. I had plenty of help, opportunities, support, and positive reinforcement.

But what happens when you're a neglected child in the inner-city. When your skin color is an immediate and permanent disadvantage. No one is around to nurture your cognition from the beginning. You have little to no resources. The school systems are a joke. Funding is used for security systems instead of educating the children. Children on their own get into trouble, and with little funding, there are few safe places to play. Children are sponges, we all know that. And if all they see is poverty, violence, drugs...unless a child is sheltered from that and has a strong relationship with supportive adults, then that child is doomed.

Some kids in the ghetto have no idea what a "vacation" is. They have never left their city. They ride their bikes on their porches behind metal fencing because if they leave, their bikes will get stolen. Is this the kind of environment that allows for successful completion of school even? Less than half of African american and Hispanic kids graduate high school. That's a bleak statistic. Why is that?

I listened to a lecturer once, and left shocked. Did you know the number one reason that keeps teenage girls from getting pregnant? They will avoid getting pregnant if they feel they have HOPE and a future! Those that are lost, hopeless, need love, think that if they have a baby, they will somehow get that. Those that have hope know their way out is through an education. Too bad our school systems are lacking. Kids don't care, teachers burn out, kids fail. And where are the parents? It's one giant perpetuating cycle.

Fact is, you're a product of your environment! Sure genetics play a role, you can have a brilliant kid growing up in the lowest SES and still make it in the real world and achieve success, and you can have a dummy grow up in a privelaged world with books, toys, an education and have that same success.

But there are SO many factors going into it all, there's absolutely no way that the "fields" are level. :waiting:

This is one of the biggest things that irks me

Pardon my rant and lack of official statistics. You can look it up yourselves. The odds are against these kids. They do not have equal opportunities. If they did, I'm sure more kids would be graduating, less kids would be dying in poverty.

[PrincessFiona]

Kare,

When dh and I were at Home Depot yesterday, we came out the back way and right in the center of the city tucked away behind Home Depot is a terrible looking trailor park. It looks terrible becuase it is ... run down...and obvious that the people there have nothing. Right next to one of the trailors was a kid's swingset and it made my stomach lurch...I turned to dh and said "those kids don't have a chance".

I think you're right that the playing field isn't level....I'd argue that it isn't really race anymore that just determines it...it's povery...lack of access to healthcare...an inability to afford the basics.

My dad would hollar at me that those people in the trailors probably have a tv so they aren't poor Come on though....tv's are cheap.

Everyone has their sad story to tell and my dad is also the first to graduate college in his family. His parents actually quit school after 8th grade to go to work because they were so poor..and my dad grew up not knowing if he would have a meal that night...but he ended up making a great life for himself. Until recently, he was the only one of his siblings (he has 2 brothers and a sister) who were able to escape. His sister now is fortunately free as well.

What was the great factor for them? The military. Serving in the military gave them both access to education that they otherwise would not have had. Sad, but in order to get ahead, my dad had to serve two tours of Vietnam and hope to come out alive....then he was able to get his bachelor's and later master's degree.

The playing ground isn't even...as a society, we need to work on that. But I don't think Imus is responsible...he's just a reflection of where we are right now.

Right next to one of the trailors was a kid's swingset and it made my stomach lurch...I turned to dh and said "those kids don't have a chance".

those kids may well have a better chance than crazy neighbor's kids in the affluent neighborhood. if they have parents who love them and try and aren't crazy and get them a swingset -- even if a crappy one is all they can afford. money / location isn't everything.

the city I grew up was largely "affluent", but there were 2 apartment buildings and 2 trailer parks. people always made jokes about the folks who lived there -- but it always struck me that the parents chose to live somewhere less wonderful so that their kids could go to the good school system.

it's not the same everywhere - I agree w/most of what Kare said about the innercity situation. but behind a suburban HomeDepot, while not a fabulous choice of location, probably isn't immediately deserving of pity.

[PrincessFiona]

Sadly, Jenn, you are right about that. It hadn't occurred to me.

The only difference is that CN's kids will have access to therapy because their dad has health insurance...any social issues/abuse etc going on in the lower income neighborhood and...the kids may not get any help.

That's funny that you mention it because yesterday it was beautiful outside and my neighborhood came to life. I took a walk and I think everyone was outdoors. A bunch of us were standing around talking and this exact topic came up. One of the dads was saying "how can something like that happen in this neighborhood" and one of the moms said basically that having money (NOT like this is the ritz, btw) doesn't protect from mental illness and social problems....and that's right.

Another neighbor and I were talking about the fact that so many people move to this town for the school district...it is smaller, has great test scores for the State and is considered the best in central MN.....but the reality is that we have the exact same social issues as the st cloud schools: Sex, STDs, drugs, bullying................ It's all there...people just kind of pretend that...it isn't.

kris

The only difference is that CN's kids will have access to therapy because their dad has health insurance...any social issues/abuse etc going on in the lower income neighborhood and...the kids may not get any help.

Not to be pick, pick, pick ... but access is only good if the parents will use it (which for CN is doubtful). But you're totally right that the healthcare situation makes a huge difference. I only bring up the "what access to therapy" is worth b/c of a situation I know of. I know I've talked before about the family I know where the mom died while rollerblading in the park w/her nearly 7 year old son. They were alone, the kid saw it happen, he had to ride in the ambulance as the paramedics worked on his mother, etc. And his a**hole of a father won't get him therapy. Says "He's fine. He just wants attention."

I know this is TOTALLY off-topic from Imus. Sorry.

[rainbabies]

hmmmmm???

Propaganda-spewing talk show host Rush Limbaugh has been criticized for airing a racially charged song about Democratic presidential shoo-in candidate Barack Obama.

Limbaugh has been playing a song called ‘Barack the Magic Negro’, to the tune of ‘Puff the Magic Dragon.’

The right-wing nut defended himself by saying he is an entertainer and the song is a parody.

The well-reported OxyContin addict said liberals upset about the term should be aware that “magic negro” is a historical cultural term, a reference to benevolent African-Americans portrayed in old films.

Uh-huh. It’s great to see that not only is racism alive and well, but it’s being blasted through our airwaves.