Duke Lacrosse players...all charges dropped

[Momo]

I am so happy that this is finally all over. What bothers me about this entire issue is that I think now whenever a woman is raped by a student athlete she will have an even more difficult time reporting and prosecuting. What a mess.

ITA
The whole thing was a disgrace... IMO the guys are stereo typical sexist pigs, she being a stripper is no better(BTW in general I don't believe that because someone is a stripper they deserve to have a crime committed against them...so don't go there w/ me), and the over zealous prosecutor was a complete moron! What a freak show! and like tara said, it will probably only make it harder for future true victims of rape to report and prosecute.

[Deebs]

We have a very similar case being looked at with University of Minnesota football players. They were arrested, but then released without charges, but the investigation is on-going. If the victim is telling the truth in this new case, I think the Duke case has given her more of an uphill battle. It really hurts the whole system.

Hallelujah!!!! I've been following for more than half a year -- online with Durham in Wonderland Blog. Went to a meeting, came back and saw the news. Can't wait for KC Johnson's book.

ETA: Indeed there MAY be extrinsic fallout for real victims - and that would be a shame.

That said (and this may not make sense given the MSM's absolute failure to cover this case properly) -- if that outcome happens b/c of this case, the persons who should be held accountable are not the lacrosse players -- but rather the false accuser and all of the various groups that rushed to judgement b/c of their own prejudices and helped perpetrate this hoax.

Think what you want about college guys hiring strippers -- that's not on my personal list of how I live. That said, finding that repugnant, and even extrapolating that they are sexist pigs b/c of that doesn't mean that a better conclusion to this hoax would have been for them to spend years in prison for crimes they didn't commit.

To wish that outcome as come uppins for loutish behavior (e.g. arranging for the stripper to arrive) is terrible.

P.S. No one ever said a stripper deserves to be raped -- but no worries because she wasn't -- at least not by anyone on the lacrosse team. There were five "deposits" from five different men -- NONE of them matching the DNA of anybody on the lacrosse team. Given that no one is out looking for those five guys ....well, you can draw numerous conclusions from that -- yet none that flow from that ever excuse rape nor do they implicate anybody on the lacrosse team.

[Rapunzel]

Yes, I think this could cause a short-term problem of rape victims being taken less seriously.

And, yes, the fault for such perceptions lies squarely with the false accuser and the prosecuter who blatantly ignored key evidence while up for election.

I don't have as much of a problem with having these players reputations sullied. I find their behavior repugnant towards women and I think it is good to shine a bright spotlight on such behavior so all the world can see its ugliness.

However, the bottom line is that they were FALSELY accused. And, that is an awful abuse of our justice system.

I don't have as much of a problem with having these players reputations sullied.

Except for the sheer disportionality of it. It's one thing for someone to say "aint' it a shame that these guys even called for a stripper in the first place" ... but it's quite another thing to have a lifetime (given modern electronic media) of your name and face associated with a rape case (that was absolutely bogus from the get go), the mental toll of everything associated with the last year - from threats against your life, leaving school, mounting legal bills, etc., etc. etc.

[DCJenn]

Yeah but my gut tells me that if this had been a team of black lacrosse players and a white stripper, they'd all be going to jail.

I don't feel sorry for a bunch of upper crust white dudes whose reputaton may have been sullied. They'll graduate, go into corporate America, make a billion dollars, ruin their companies, get the golden parachute and send a sizable contribution to Duke and have a building named after them.

Jenn

JennDC,

Your encapsulation of their worth - ironically as less b/c they are "privileged" in many ways speaks to why this case was able to get as far as it did. For many, it was the perfect chance to exact "revenge" -- with the notion (amongst some) that even if they didn't do it -- lots of other people (read minorities) have had bad things happen to them.

None of us knows them as individuals. And I'd like to think it's quite possible that they have a lot more to offer than what a stereotype would suggest.

And you know what? Even if we knew them personally and found them to be the flat, one-dimensionsal stereotypes / cardboard cut outs ... they wouldn't deserve this.

Folks like the NC NAACP who should understand the importance of justice / DNA / things like the innocence project -- for it's ability to help African-Americans facing improper courses. Took a different tack with their sails during this case. Pretty sad.

As to the hypothetical counter-factual where races are reversed. None of can say what is likely. Though it might be instructive to know a few weeks ago a student (female) was allegedly raped at a historically black fraternity at Duke.

Oh, you didn't hear much about that on the national news did you?

P.S. *Lily* -- the story of Colin "gay bashing in Georgetown" was great fodder -- cause the storyline was so juicy. It seems he never hit the dude in question at all - but when those court revelations came out it was too late since everyone had gobbled up the juicy byline about the "bashing".

But still, he may indeed may be a little shit, but do folks usually go to prison for being assholes?

[DCJenn]

Kevin-

Why are is everyone so morally outraged over these three but the Rutgers team being referred to as a group of 'hos is no big deal. Does ANYONE else here find that repugnant?

You're right that I made assumptions about these guys- for all I know they grew up poor. But they grew up white and they grew up male and they're automatically going to get a bye in our society.

and I have deep suspicisions that the media coverage of both these events is more about our society having this infatuation with sporting teams than anything else.

Jenn

[poky]

the story of Colin "gay bashing in Georgetown" was great fodder -- cause the storyline was so juicy. It seems he never hit the dude in question at all - but when those court revelations came out it was too late since everyone had gobbled up the juicy byline about the "bashing".

I didn't think "gay bashing" had to be physical to be "bashing". Does it? Wikipedia seems to think verbal abuse is just as much "bashing" as physical.

[Cumberland]

Why are is everyone so morally outraged over these three but the Rutgers team being referred to as a group of 'hos is no big deal. Does ANYONE else here find that repugnant?


Jenn

Yes I find it repugnant but not at all comparable. Name calling is one thing, but lying about being raped causing three men to be arrested is completely different.

What I wonder is who is going to pay the thousands and thousands of dollars in legal fees the three men incurred due to the accuser lying? Will she have to shoulder the burden of her dishonesty? I doubt it.

I also wonder how an investigation like this, that was clearly out of control from the beginning, can be checked before it gets out of hand. It was so obvious that Mike Nifong was on a wild goose chase, but he was allowed to go on and on. Sure, he is in trouble now, but he could have and should have been stopped a long time ago.

I also wonder how an investigation like this, that was clearly out of control from the beginning, can be checked before it gets out of hand. It was so obvious that Mike Nifong was on a wild goose chase, but he was allowed to go on and on.

There are many long answers. But one short answer is that NC law doesn't require recordings of grand jury proceedings. Who knows what the hell Nifong told that grand jury. If amongst the numerous despicable and unjust things he has done, he was willing to forge secret deals to hide exculpatory evidence about the DNA results later in the process and if early on he was violating all standard police procedures in regards to critical things such as the lineup, hamming it on tv before his election, etc. etc.

I'm willing to give even a Durham jury pool the benefit of the doubt that after seeing his fantastic, lie-driven show... they said, hey what the hell can a trial hurt? Especially early on the process when the jury pool was also tainted with the early news coverage, Duke's response, etc.

That early news coverage -- and no one stayed on Nifong's case, Duke's case etc. except for KC Johnson and the Durham in Wonderland Blog -- was so sensational it had me confused in the first couple of weeks. For the major media, it was a great story.... Nancy Grace, New York Times, Durham Herald Sun, even the Raleigh News and Observer early on ... and sadly later in the game just couldn't let facts get in the way.

P.S. Sharpton brought us Tawana Brawley years ago. He and Jesse Jackson came down early in the game ... along with Black Panthers whom Duke allowed to come on campus and publicly threaten their own students who hadn't been convicted of anything. Perhaps even more terrible was faculty at Duke holding "castrate signs," wanted posters of their students, etc. -- all a couple of days after the first story broke.

But in the last month or two, even Sharpton and Jackson pulled away to get this stink away from them. They had to face the truth of this case. It was clear in the last couple of weeks that the final resolution of the NC Attorney general was imminent.

I'm sure Sharpton loves to fill the airwaves with 24 / 7 coverage of Imus -- nice timing. Oh, and no defense of Imus from me but I think that's really the only link between these two cases -- e.g. that the constant media blitz about Imus has diffused some of the much more important news about resolution in this case.

Sorry - I said that was going to be short.

Lily,

*amn. You're embarrassing me with a pop culture reference that I can't follow.

Alas, I'm a fossil at 33 years of age.

[Momo]

Alas, I'm a fossil at 33 years of age

.

Please don't make me feel older than I already am !

[Rapunzel]

But in the last month or two, even Sharpton and Jackson pulled away to get this stink away from them. They had to face the truth of this case. It was clear in the last couple of weeks that the final resolution of the NC Attorney general was imminent.

I'm sure Sharpton loves to fill the airwaves with 24 / 7 coverage of Imus -- nice timing. Oh, and no defense of Imus from me but I think that's really the only link between these two cases -- e.g. that the constant media blitz about Imus has diffused some of the much more important news about resolution in this case.

Holy Cow! Now that is something I haven't read yet!

So, Al Sharpton jumped on this bandwagon against this guy, Imus (who has a habit of saying filthy things over the years it seems), right at this moment because he needed a distraction from aligning himself with the arguably criminal Nfong in a case that was fabricated?

Hmmm.... I can see it!

Just to clarify, I'm in no way suggesting that Al Sharpton is powerful enough to put words in Imus' mouth.

Imus did that on his own.

Likewise, folks like Sharpton, Jackson and others who immediately came down early in the case and said (within a day or two of the first allegations that they would pay for the accuser's schooling, etc. etc.) backed away several months ago. So, their support was withdrawn independently of things that hadn't yet happened.

So, Imus' slur ...one of many that have come out of his piehole was just serendipitous timing for folks as media-saavy as Sharpton.

A capitalized coincidence in time as it were ... as opposed to a carefully calculated conspiracy that one must don a tinfoil hat to believe.