VA Tech

[Momo]

Stella & anyone eles that has a personal connection

I personally know all to well what this is like. I am very sorry... all of this on the news really brought back memories

Deb,

I hear you on lazy, biased major media outlets. They like a titillating slam-dunk storyline. That is bad enough but they also have some biases as well.

When a train gets rolling on the tracks, it seems nothing can derail them from the storyline that they've "invested" in...

Sorry to be unclear. I didn't mean to suggest that he had a motive for killing that was intrinsically linked to his ethnic background, his citizenship status, etc.

Just thought - wow, you mean a non-citizen can apply for the same permit that I as I citizen can? And the counterfactual, if that wasn't the case, at least he would've had to try a little harder to get a gun ... but I think he would've found one anyway.

This has me wondering -- does one have to be a citizen to be a police officer or in the military?

It's an interesting point.

I agree about the university administrators. I think that we have sometimes unreasonable expectations about how information travels and is assimilated and acted upon.

[Momo]

A US permanent Resident/ green card holder , as far as I know, can do everything, except vote.

11/28/2006 Dallas Morning News :

About 69,300 foreign-born men and women serve in the U.S. armed forces, roughly 5 percent of the total active-duty force, according to the most recent data. Of those, 43 percent – 29,800 – are not U.S. citizens. The Pentagon says more than 100 immigrant soldiers have died in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan

[mommax3]

I believe the concept of individual gun ownership for personal protection is essentially laughable. If you store your gun responsibly, the likelihood that you have it at the precise moment you're in danger is slim.

ITA agree with this.

I would never own a gun. I fail to see why ANYONE (except police and military, of course) needs to own a gun that can fire many, many times in succession. It is true that *people* kill, not guns, but I think it is also true that guns don't need to be so easy to get. I am all for stricter control of them. I also agree with Lily's thoughts about the fundamental emptiness in some people that drives them to the point of horrible acts.

Sally

In other news, I heard on NPR tonight that the Cho was involuntarily committed in 2005. In Virginia, gun buyers have to assert that they have never been involuntarily committed. Surprisingly he lied and that was the end of it. No research into that, I'm guessing due to doctor-patient laws. Catch-22 all over the place.

why even have the question on there if it can't / won't be confirmed? is the 'waiting period' just time for the application to gather dust?

i am sick, sick, sick, sick, sick as we learn more about this. he obtained the guns legally - you can't buy more than 1 a month, so he waited. shouldn't that send of warning flags? what on earth does a 23 year old college student need with 2 guns? A Glock? A freaking GLOCK? A semi-automatic weapon?

People should be required to provide a reason they "need" these weapons. Just wanting them isn't good enough. Specific guns need to be designated for hunting (yes - those can kill on a rampage as well, but the killer can't unload clips of bullets at a time), and SEMI-AUTOMATIC WEAPONS HAVE NO PLACE IN THE HANDS OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC!

I'm sorry - I've tried to maintain my composure to this point, but I just watched the report on NBC about the packet of stuff he mailed to them ... There is no reason that this person should EVER have been able to buy a weapon.

There was no reason.

[DCJenn]

I emailed CNN today for the worst piece of journalism thay have ever put out- that ridiculous "time line of events".

First, they made the huge deal over the fact that he's "Korean-American". !1) everyone knows that by now, 2)it adds nothing to the story

Secondly in the space of about 30 seconds they manage to infer blame (to the university) three separate times.

and then with everyone making such a huge deal that he was hospitalized against his will- man- o- man. The significant part of that tidbit as Jenn said is that he said he hadn't been and there's no way to verify whether that is true or not. (We can't even confirm to CPS if a person is in our program or not- at least not without a signed consent that specifically states to whom we can release information and under what curcumstances)

But, given the hoo-ha about the actual hospitalization, I'm 99% sure that no one will ever admit that they've had psychiatric treatment.

Jenn

Filed under questions I was never expected to have asked of me -- Are you a convicted felon or fugitive of the law?

I had to have some sort of background check (I think federal?) to accept delivery for some of FILs guns. (So glad I'm done with all that). Anyway -- gee, what is the correct answer to that question? In my case the answer was no , but if someone were a convicted felon or fugitive would they choose that moment to 'fess up? I don't know what they checked or whether or not the check would confirm that answer. But if the background check would pick that up, why ask? I don't think those are the kinds of questions where we can just rely on someone's honesty.

But, given the hoo-ha about the actual hospitalization, I'm 99% sure that no one will ever admit that they've had psychiatric treatment.

I agree.

[Momo]

why even have the question on there if it can't / won't be confirmed?

Oh but Jenn... the Gun Lobby loves these kind of questions (ones that really do nothing to stop a determined/ disturbed individual) because it just allows for more people to buy their products!

I read this a.m. that he wasn't forced to go to inpatient hospitalization but rather was forced to attend outpatient services.

It will be interesting to see what the judiciary's role was regarding their duty to warn the university / his roomates / associates etc. From the snippets I've read they used all of the language of the Tarrasoff (sp) Priniciple -- the duty to warn if deemed a harm to self or others.

So, it will be interesting to see who knew what and who told whom. What I'm thinking of here is that if you or I are seeing a counselor and say something like we really want to beat the $hit out of _____, that counselor has a duty to warn ______ directly if possible. So, the judge is using that language, but I'd like to know if the roomates, university at large, his family were warned previously.

I'm not indulging in the blame game but am genuinely curious. It seems like he had a woman as a suitemate up until the very end.

My guess is that there are all sorts of competing privacy claims (or misunderstandings of his right to privacy) since invoking the Tarrasoff principle means that all bets regarding someone's privacy e.g. mental health stuff should be waived when in a situation of imminent danger to self or others.

Some random thoughts on the inclusion of his ancestry e.g. Korean American in stories. And again I haven't been reading much just drive by posting here.

I think that comes from several sources / motivations. The first is really the novelty (in America) of seeing an Asian face associated with violence. Now, certainly I know that in major metro areas Asians are part of violent crimes, gangs, etc. just like virtually every other ethnic / racial group. But nationwide, I'd bet the involvement of Asians in violent crimes is perhaps lower than other groups. And even if the statistics don't bear that out -- the perception / stereotype that that is the case is out there.

That's a long way of saying it at least seems very novel and it can't not be remarked upon -- even if in the end it has absolutely nothing to do with his motivations.

Because this (at least seems) so anomalous in reference to prevailing stats (or at least stereotypes) all of the otherwise prevailing p.c. strictures that would have come into play had he been of another race don't enter the journalists' minds. We can all insert other races where if this story was breaking journalists would run at break neck speed AWAY from mentioning the race angle.

But here there are no p.c. strictures (nor much evidence this point that it matters either) so I think the novelty is what they're interested in (though it seems to be of throwaway value at this point).

And here is the cynical me. Whether it is conscious or not, I think the story that journalists are certainly ready to write about will be rural backlash to Asians. I know it seems to contradict what I wrote above. But my guess is that if there is one report (unsubstantiated or not) of some loser hurling epithets at a gas station for instance at an Asian at the pump -- this will become THE story. Personally, I think 99.99% of people know or act better than that. But that would be headlines at 11 for 11 weeks. Then, that story would be a nationwide thing.

ETA: His suitemate was a guy with the name Karan. It's unclear to me from snippets whether he was sent to a hospital to stay or sent to a hospital to be evaluated on an outpatient basis.

[rainbabies]

Less than 24 hours after a lone gunman opened fire on the campus of Virginia Tech, killing 33 people, the Citizens Commission on Human Rights, a Scientology front group (no, not the same one from 9/11), sent out the following press release to national media outlets:


Another School Shooter, Another Psychiatric Drug?
28 Dead and 62 Wounded in Recent Drug-Induced School Shootings

Today's shooting rampage at Virginia Tech is being called the deadliest school shooting incident in U.S. history, with initial reports citing 32 dead and 29 wounded in the bloodiest school massacre since Columbine. The Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR), a mental health watchdog that initially discovered the psychiatric drug connection in the Columbine shootings, says media and law enforcement must move quickly to investigate the Virginia shooter's psychiatric drug history -- a common factor amongst school shooters...

For more information, contact [FLAME] the Citizens Commission on Human Rights at 800-869-2247 or email humanrights@cchr.org."

Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down here. You mean to tell me that people who shoot up schools might have mental problems? You're kidding. Really? No way. Man, I would have never guessed that a crazy person would do something like this.

Note: As you might have guessed, this is another attempt by the Church of Scientology to rid the world of psychiatrists. Sound like a good idea? Maybe we should ask Elli Perkins. She was a Scientologist whose schizophrenic son stabbed her 77 times after he was treated with vitamins instead of professional care.

Update: Scientology has sent 20 ministers to the Va. Tech campus to provide "grief counseling". Or as the media likes to call it "milking human tragedy to promote their organization".

[Laker]

Citizen with a CCW avoids becoming another victim...

Kalamazoo man fends off attackers with handgun

WOOD-TV

OSHTEMO TOWNSHIP -- A Kalamazoo man was able to turn an attempted attack around because of his concealed weapons permit.

The Kalamazoo County Sheriff's Department says 32-year-old Brian Smith was approached by two men as he was entering his apartment on Mt. Royal Drive just before 2 a.m. Friday.

One of the suspects asked Smith for directions to Kalamazoo Valley Community College and then pulled out a revolver. Smith pulled out his revolver to defend himself and fired two shots, hitting the suspect in his left hand.

Both of the suspects fled the scene on foot. The wounded suspect was arrested a short time later while trying to get medical attention.

The other suspect is still on the loose. He is described as a black man in his early 20s, about 5'8" tall and having a thin build, and last seen wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt and black jeans.

If you know anything about this incident or the whereabouts of the second suspect you are asked to call police at (269) 383-8822 ext. 6.

WOODTV.com & WOOD TV8 - Grand Rapids news, weather, sports and video - Kalamazoo man fends off attackers with handgun