Homeschooling

[mommax3]

<tangent ahead, sorry!>

I was reading Alison's post on your dream and thinking that I'm having a difficult time reconciling my dream (homeschooling, larger family) with what I'm truly capable of right now. I'm struggling with this issue.

I can SO identify with this! I still have days when I mourn the fact that I didn't have more children. DH looks truly perplexed when I voice my sadness about this, leading me to think that I was even more of a basket case after DS#3 than I remember.....and I remember being VERY unhappy. I can't even answer on Alison's thread because I truly have no dream right now.....maybe because I am living the dream? :huh: All I know is that the dreams I had didn't jive with reality very well at all. The kids I have are very different than the kids I imagined I would have, especially the oldest one. Having said all this, I don't mean to leave the impression that I am generally unhappy, because nothing could be further from the truth. But my life looks NOTHING like I would have envisioned it five years ago. My general plan right now is "roll with it".....that's all I got.

<end tangent>

About homeschooling.....I have seen good examples (mostly) and a few bad examples of it over the years. I have taught in a homeschool co-op and have taught many homeschooled kids privately. Homeschooling is definitely a lifestyle choice, and not an easy one to my way of thinking. I think I could homeschool my younger two kids, but it would have been very hard for me to have homeschooled my oldest, given his intensity and the fact that he had two younger brothers who would have needed my attention. He was/is also bright enough that if I had homeschooled him even for a year, it would have been very difficult to put him back into another school situation at his grade level, because he would have been too far ahead, and he is already on the young side for his grade, so I wouldn't have wanted him to move up at all. School has never been academically challenging for him, but learning organization has been HUGE, and this is something that he wouldn't have learned as well at home. I think with education, like everything else in parenting, you have to educate yourself as much as you can and then go with your gut.

Sally

[spotty_dog]

I can't even answer on Alison's thread because I truly have no dream right now.....maybe because I am living the dream? :huh: All I know is that the dreams I had didn't jive with reality very well at all.

Maybe the take-home point is to be as broad as possible with those long-term, "I'll know I've succeeded when..." dreams. I'm definitely open to the possibility...nay, the likelihood that things won't work out down to the details, especially when it comes to the kids. There's no control there; just nurturing to bring out the most in whoever they are destined to become.

A lot of people have voiced this idea that their kids wouldn't learn from them as readily as from a third-party teacher. I guess this is why the unschooling side of things appeals to me. The child leads and the parent follows. But at the same time I don't think it's totally realistic to believe that one could develop a base for a truly broad education this way, and breadth of education is important to me. It's a dilemma and no doubt. :P

What is it with these eldest children? I think I'd run into the same issue. I feel that I am most helpful in finding teachers that are well-suited to her personality or helping them understand her (to the extent at school and also with swimming, etc). She's getting pretty good that herself.

For me, I would have to exhaust our existing options of which there are many -- neighborhood school, public magnets, private schools. If I were to homeschool, I think I would outsource some of the work (language tutor, music, that sort of thing).

Okay, I just had a reality check about how on top of it I'm going to be as a homeschooling parent. Kyle was sitting on my lap as I was reading posts and he started pointing to numbers and telling me what they were. I had no clue he knew any of his numbers! We have never worked on them. Geez. And to think I was under the delusion that I was the best person to teach these guys.

Clueless.

[Rapunzel]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this. A storm knocked out our internet access a number of days ago...

I think I click with the classical education model the best; Wise's The Well-Trained Mind. I have some questions concerning it, but the overall structure makes sense to me.

That's the method I use. It can be intimidating at first - but I kind of "eased" into it. And, this coming year will truly be the first year we are doing pretty much everything recommended in that book. Yup, it took me five years to get the hang of that method! But, it is the method that appeals to me the most and the one with which my children are the most familiar.

Tabula Rasa, why is homeschooling during middle school so important? I figured by middle school the kids (and parents) would have more choices about what classes they take. Are your concerns more of a social thing? That would make sense to me, I personally HATED middle school. But I'm wondering what your and your friends' reasons are?

Ahhhh.... Middle school. Otherwise known as "Hell". For some reason every single parent we have known as friends irl with children in the middle school years have indicated how utterly horrible those years are. And, apparently, when you lump a whole lot of middle schoolers together it gets worse.

For dh and I, personally, we have observed that the middle schoolers who are homeschooled seem to make the difficult transitions during that time in life the most seemlessly - and without picking up a ton of the bad habits that seem to crop up among the public schooled children we know during those particular grueling years.

12-14 are really tough years! DH and I have become convinced that they are quite pivotal years - even more so than early childhood. It's the timeperiod when children are learning the most about themselves, their environment (ie peers, culture, the world, etc.), and their futures. They are also at their most vulnerable due to everything from hormonal challenges (and the havoc wreaked on both body and soul) to figuring out relationships with members of the opposite sex to truly deciding what they will do with the rest of their lives. I have seen so many kids pick up bad habits during that timeperiod that take them a great deal of adulthood to conquer. DH has observed the same.

So, for that timeperiod, at least, our reasons for homeschooling are almost entirely social and cultural.

Also, thanks for the resource list. I need to read Gatto, his name has popped up repeatedly.

He also speaks at a lot of home education conventions.

Why are some people so opinionated against it? The choice doesn't affect them personally. And I'm a little nervous about what some people might say/ask when they find out I was a public school teacher who chose to homeschool my own.

I am noticing less and less opposition to homeschooling as a viable education option the further along I go in life. And, I have found the best counter for any negative opinions towards home education is the example of my own children. There are often preconceived ideas of what homeschooling children (and their parents) are "like". And, it tickles me when my family breaks all of those stereotypes. My children are some of the most sociable, polite, well-spoken, inquisitive, and generally bright little people I know. And, of course, I am quite biased on that point. However, those are the compliments they receive from strangers and friends alike. Honestly, I believe that most of these positive characteristics are already present in their personalities (ie it's NOT me giving these things to them) and that having a home education has just allowed these innate characteristics to be nurtured and shine. I truly think this is the way ALL children start out. And, I truly believe that there are certain norms we currently have in our society that succeed in masking - or even destroying - these positive, innate characteristics.

Thanks TR, I picked up a copy of Gatto today. I'm hooked, and I've only read the foreword and first introduction.

"School bells inoculate each child with indifference." I love that, it's so true. Children in a classroom are usually not able to follow anything through to its conclusion. Between the breaks and scripted lessons and mandated curriculum...

My graduate diagnostic reading class last summer was a perfect example. I was so inspired; we spent the first half of the sememster discussing how important it was to let kids immerse themselves in reading. The theme was DO NOT INTERRUPT a child when they are engrossed in a lesson or lost in a good book.

Then we each got to tutor a child during the last half of the semester. I should tell you that we also got a schedule that broke up the 1 1/2 hour tutoring session into bits and pieces. I wanted to cry.

I'm questioning everything I knew and learned and did as a teacher. Where this journey is taking me I have no idea, but I'm enjoying the confusing, overwhelming and exciting journey all the same.

[Flynn]

Please excuse my ignorance. I have limited experience with homeschooling. (PLEASE!!!!) I am asking these questions to ask -- not to start a heated, ugly debate. If any of my questions offend -- that was NOT my intention and I apologize from the get go. I mean this completely sincerely!!!!!

I have a few questions:
Oh -- I'm not looking for data or articles on homeschooling. I'm interested on the opinions of the people who are seriously considering homeschooling or ARE currently homeschooling their children.

• Do you homeschool because the traditional way (30 plus kids in a classroom, one adult, yadda yadda yadda) is less than adequate and you can do it better OR do you do it because it sounds ideal and you want to, or are giving it a shot?
  
  Does spirituality/religion play a role in your decision to homeschool?
  
  Do you homeschool through high school or does your child go to the public or private high school you choose?
  
  For those of you that are PRO homeschooling -- do you feel there is a fair to poor stigma associated with homeschooling kids or do you think that's all hogwash?
  
  Is homeschooling more about the child or the adult (parent who wants to
  homeschool)?
  
  Did you, the adult, have a generally positive experience in school or.....NOT?? (Generally -- we all have had our difficulties.)
  
  When you are working with one child what do the other children do for those of you with more than one? What do the kids do who are under the age of preschool while you are working with your kids during at home "school?"

I'm a little pressed for time and I'm not pleased with the phrasing of these questions BUT it's what I can do for now.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[PrincessFiona]

Interesting thread.

We've gone back and forth on the homeschooling thing for years...and we even took Amanda out of school for a week last year and did the homeschooling thing before letting her go back.

I suppose at the end of the day, ultimately...everyone has to make the choice that best fits their family.

We homeschool during the summers....German and math. We do this for the purpose of giving our children exposure to their own culture/father's language and supplementing the math curriculum/helping with weakness. I also insist on a reading program from each child but I don't do the same kind of teaching that I do with the german or instruction that I do with the math.

Alex announced to his class and all of his friends this year that I am homeschooling him next year and...he refuses to consider that I won't. We just talked about it again yesterday and he demanded that I homeschool him and then...send him to KidStop after school.

I am considering it...though he refuses to give me any reasons.

We really do mostly summer homeschooling. I have considered *real* homeschooling, but I think that I don't have what it takes. I guess I am selfish, but...I need time for me and I hardly get any at all .... the idea of full-time homeschooling sends me into a panic attack. At the same time, I'm not happy with the social garbage that my children are exposed to at the public schools and I'm really struggling to figure out how to raise them *right* in a world that just feels so *wrong*.

My children would likely embrace homeschooling full-time more than I would....with the exception of my oldest daughter. I have a difficult time when she is struggling in a subject and I'm not the best teacher for her at that time. When she was struggling with reading many years ago....she not only didn't want me helping her...she refused to do what I asked. It would not have worked at that stage of the game.

To those of you in the trenches...more power to you!

kris

[Rapunzel]

Please excuse my ignorance. I have limited experience with homeschooling. (PLEASE!!!!) I am asking these questions to ask -- not to start a heated, ugly debate. If any of my questions offend -- that was NOT my intention and I apologize from the get go. I mean this completely sincerely!!!!!

I think they are all perfectly viable, reasonable questions!

Do you homeschool because the traditional way (30 plus kids in a classroom, one adult, yadda yadda yadda) is less than adequate and you can do it better OR do you do it because it sounds ideal and you want to, or are giving it a shot?

That is one of the reasons why we homeschool. From an academic standpoint dh and I mostly want to instill a love of learning in our children. We both feel that modern schooling kills that love in more children than it nurtures. I think there are a lot of very good teachers out there (my mil is one of them!) but I think that the manner in which mass education is conducted is less than adequate. In that regard, yes, I believe dh and I can do better than the public school systems.

Interestingly enough, what we regard as the traditional way of mass schooling has only cropped up sporadically through history. And, compulsory mass schooling is an incredible rarity in history (both ancient and modern). The school district which we will live in during our coming year in MA is, ironically, the very last school district in MA (and, possibly New England?) to have compulsory public schooling. The children were actually forced to school at gunpoint by the state militia because the local residents were perfectly happy with parents teaching their own children. Just an odd bit of trivia I picked up.

One of the things I personally really like about the classical education model is that it is a close interpretation of the educations which many great leaders have received - often at the hands of their parents, but also from private tutors one-on-one. Now, there is a great debate among home educators as to the "best" method for homeschooling. But, I prefer to avoid that debate entirely. I have my preferred method and my personal reasons for liking it. But, I have known spectacular examples of children homeschooled in the various other methods - and some in an entirely eclectic manner! In fact, I'd say the eclectic method - picking and choosing how you teach your child various subjects at various times/years - is probably the most popular. And, that is the beauty of home education - you tailor the education to the individual child.

Does spirituality/religion play a role in your decision to homeschool?

In a manner of speaking, yes, it does. By that I mean dh and I feel that there are certain aspects of our society that are less than desirable and that children are being introduced to at progressively younger ages. I had a talk with a friend who is a child psychologist about this issue. He is decidedly non-religious, btw. He told dh and I that are suspicions are confirmed in his own practice where he regularly sees children who have been exposed to things that they are naturally not emotionally ready to handle. From earlier and earlier exposure to explicit sexual language and acts (!) to drug use to alcohol abuse - the main route of exposure to these experiences is primarily via mass schooling.

Now, I know people who actually include religion in every single part of their homeschooling - even using Biblical verses for math! I do not do that. We do what we would normally do daily in regard to our religious beliefs and expression. But, I cannot discount a spiritual aspect to our decision to homeschool. Since we regard the family as a spiritually significant unit in this life and the next it is highly important to us that our family remain strong, supportive, together. And, the current state of mass education appears to be contributing to ripping that togetherness apart. And, that is the opinion of both dh and myself.

Do you homeschool through high school or does your child go to the public or private high school you choose?

We haven't reached that point yet. I do know I will definitely homeschool each of my children through the middle school years. After that, who knows? If they are like dh they will be ready for college at 16, for example. There are so many avenues - so many options! With my oldest technically entering fifth grade next year I think it will be at least two more years before we can truly begin to tackle what comes next. The academic goal, of course, is for each child to get into a good university and take their educations as far as they individually desire.

For those of you that are PRO homeschooling -- do you feel there is a fair to poor stigma associated with homeschooling kids or do you think that's all hogwash?

I'm finding that as more people actually know homeschooling families and, as homeschooling moves from a "fringe" movement to a mainstream option in society I am personally seeing less and less of a poor opinion towards homeschooling among those I know and meet.

I DO know people who have had poor opinions of homeschooling. And, generally it is because they have preconceived notions with little real knowledge and/or have met one or two homeschooling families that really are socially awkward or academically subpar.

Mostly I find parents who are intrigued by the idea of homeschooling, relieved that they have another option should they need or want one, or are self-deprecating - claiming they could "never" do it for one reason or another.

So, it is certainly not hogwash that there do exist individuals out there who have poor opinions of home education. But, in my opinion, that number of individuals is rapidly declining. And, that is especially so as opinions of the direction public education is taking continue to drop.

Is homeschooling more about the child or the adult (parent who wants to
homeschool)?

I would say usually about the child. Or, at least it should be about the child! I have met a few parents where I really did get the feeling that the decision to homeschool was more about an individual parent's "issues". Overall, however, I have to say that homeschooling parents are incredibly dedicated to their children and what they feel is best for said children. At least, that is my personal experience with, goodness, at this point probably about a couple of hundred homeschooling families in two different states.

But, I know tons of parents who send their children to public school for entirely selfish reasons - because the parent wants the kids gone for the day, because the parent wants to do their own thing, because the parent wants.... Or, I'll hear that a parent sends their children to public school because the parent "needs" it for some reason. I hear that quite a bit more often than I hear parents saying they homeschool because the parent "wants" or "needs" something. Generally, from a homeschooling parent you'll hear, "I homeschool because Johnny needed _________ and the public schools were not providing what he needed."

Did you, the adult, have a generally positive experience in school or.....NOT?? (Generally -- we all have had our difficulties.)

That is a mixed bag. At the time I was in public school I would say that it was, overall a positive experience. But, I felt held back academically and many of the social problems I experienced were needless hassles that really didn't prepare me for adulthood in any manner whatsoever.

The farther I have gotten in time from my public school experience the more I have found I am able to examine that experience methodically and devoid of emotion. And, if my own children had my exact same experience I believe that most of them would come out OK - especially now that I know how my parents could have behaved differently in order to help with the negative things I experienced.

However, I also must acknowledge that, if each of my children had my exact same experience (which, for public education, was a good experience) they would still encounter a great deal of waste - wasted time, wasted experiences, etc. They would twiddle their thumbs in the "honors" classes because they had finished the work in the first five minutes. They would spend countless hours of their childhood standing in lines and going through completely useless details necessary to keep large masses of children inline and safe. They would encounter teachers who wasted their precious education time. They would encounter much that was needless in the grand scheme of things and, particularly useless in their educations and in their future adult lives. Childhood is too precious to waste on such things in my opinion.

And, I gleaned that from what was primarily a positive experience!

When you are working with one child what do the other children do for those of you with more than one? What do the kids do who are under the age of preschool while you are working with your kids during at home "school?"

And, this is the $25,000 question! Really!!


Definitely the hardest part is the toddler years! And, this was one of the reasons that led to our decision that our children be autodidactic as early as possible. So, I don't sit around with the older kids during the day. I tried that - and ended up just twiddling my thumbs watching them work. The truth is they need me for new concepts which they find difficult to comprehend. And, otherwise, the best thing I can do is keep track of what they have done. They are all getting better at self-assessment - really looking hard at themselves and figuring out what they are personally struggling with. However, they are still children and I do need to go over their work to double-check that they are really understanding these concepts.

And, that means my mornings (when the bulk of the "schoolwork" is accomplished) are kind of, well, normal for a mom who stays at home with a toddler and preschooler! I do the laundry, clean up after the tornado of a toddler, help my preschooler with her more basic skills. And, periodically (probably every half hour or so) one of my older kids calls out, "Mom, I need some help!" And, off I go to work on that for as long as it takes (which, the vast majority of the time, is NOT very long at all).

The most time-intensive thing I teach any of my children is reading. And, what I have found when I taught each of my older children to read (and, now the preschooler) is that the younger child (generally a toddler at that point) really loves to sit down and listen in on the concepts/book being discussed. I let them interject from time to time - and, if I'm lucky, the toddler picks up something along the way! But above all, I think this contributes to a love of reading for the very youngest member(s) of our family.

Now, that is my approach. Other families take a wide variety of different approaches - because they know what works best with their particular children. And, again, that is the beauty of homeschooling - there is no "right" way to do it because it can be tailored to each child and situation. And, the plan, the curriculum, the method used can ALL be altered at ANY time according to individual needs.




Those are all really good questions!

I'll respond even though I'm not 100% sure of my responses and therefore reserve the right to change my opinions at any time.

Do you homeschool because the traditional way (30 plus kids in a classroom, one adult, yadda yadda yadda) is less than adequate and you can do it better OR do you do it because it sounds ideal and you want to, or are giving it a shot?

Both. The traditional way scares me because... okay, here are my concerns. Personally, I would rank my own teaching ability as average, or at least what should be considered average. I have a pile of references from principals, reading specialists, parents, etc. that tell a different story. It would be impossible for me to get better letters of recommendation, impossible. A letter from one reading specialists said that in her 35 years of teaching that I'm one of the best teachers she's ever worked with. All my principals wrote very long letters of recommendation and used words like 'exemplary', 'superb', and 'outstanding.' I hope someone on the inside track can break the news to me that all teaching reference letters read like this. Otherwise, although flattering, these letters are very concerning to me. Again, I'm what should be considered average.

Does spirituality/religion play a role in your decision to homeschool?
Does trying to get away from religion count?!

Do you homeschool through high school or does your child go to the public or private high school you choose?
They'll definately attend the public high school we're zoned into.

For those of you that are PRO homeschooling -- do you feel there is a fair to poor stigma associated with homeschooling kids or do you think that's all hogwash?
I would have to admit I'm worried about that.

Is homeschooling more about the child or the adult (parent who wants to
homeschool)?
For me, I'll be honest and say both. I want them to get a great education. I also want to relentlessly use them as my personal guinea pigs in a cunning plot to crate a new educational theory that will make me rich beyond my wildest dreams.

Did you, the adult, have a generally positive experience in school or.....NOT?? (Generally -- we all have had our difficulties.)
Good experience

When you are working with one child what do the other children do for those of you with more than one? What do the kids do who are under the age of preschool while you are working with your kids during at home "school?"
He-e-e he-e-e

BTW - How do you do the fancy quotes throughout the post? That's the true $25,000 question.

[Rapunzel]

And, let me just add that Kris pointed out something that has been hard for me as well.

I am naturally a person who likes to be....ALONE.

I LOVE quiet. I adore solitude. My idea of "fun" is to curl up with a book on a rainy day. I'm the kind of woman who would probably become one of those 'cat ladies' - the little old hermit women who collect cats...

And, so, it has been a major adjustment to homeschooling for me. My children DO enjoy it more than I - that is for sure! I have days where I want to be left by myself. And, on those days I keep it to myself for the most part. When I do complain it is to my husband or my mom. I don't want the kids to think that I'm complaining about them. Because, I'm not.

That single personality issue has been the biggest stumbling block in homeschooling my children. But, in the interest of forcing myself beyond my comfort zones - I have started tackling this trait. It's not necessarily an inherently negative trait. It would be (or will be?) a HUGE asset if I am a widowed empty-nester! And, so, through the years, I have begun to appreciate the positives of traits that are naturally the opposite of my own.

Scary? Yes. Hard? Yes.

But, now that I am experiencing this life I just wouldn't trade it. One day I'm going to have all of my children gone away from home. And, I will have to reinvent myself once again! So, when I treat this as a phase in life I do OK. On the hard days I remind myself that this is just a small part of my life. This hard day, month, week, or (someday?) year is a drop in the bucket in my life and my children's lives. And, that gets me through the times when my natural personality bucks my choices!

[diggitydot]

I have zero experiences with home schooling, so take this with a grain of salt. But if I were to pull my daughters out of their elementary school, they'd lose their collective marbles. They absolutely love it, have great friends, excellent teachers, and have learned how to effectively deal with the rotten little fartknockers that inhabit each classroom.

Even though dealing with jerks certainly isn't a fun aspect of school, I think it's very important for my kids because those jerks don't disappear after you graduate. They're still around and learning survival/coping skills (even if it's just how to effectively ignore them) are exceedingly important to their ability to navigate through life once they're on their own. Which, if you ask me, is one of the points of being a parent in the first place.

I don't have anything against people who are home schooled nor those who elect to home school. And I also don't view it negatively. It isn't for me or my family, but I can see why it could be for others and totally support them for doing so much to ensure the success of their children/families.

How long have you been looking for a place to use that word?

[diggitydot]

How long have you been looking for a place to use that word?

Oh, have no fears...that one is a regular part of my vernacular.

It's late so I'll just say that I agree with most of what Annie has said (and so eloquently!)

I have considered homeschooling but the "problem" is that DD is SO excited to go to preschool in the fall (she is 4). This will be her first real school experience and she talks about it at least once per day (sometimes 40!) Luckily, it seems like a great school and well, it's only 2 hours for 3 mornings a week. So I struggle with that issue - how can you homeschool a child that is very eager to go to school? She talks about playing with the other kids, eating lunch with them, etc. . .I sense that she would be crushed if I told her that she had to stay home with me. ???

Anyway, I think homeschooling is a great thing and I would do it in a heartbeat, if necessary.