Homeschooling

[Flynn]

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses thus far (especially JennTR for filling in the blanks for me!).

It's late so I'll just say that I agree with most of what Annie has said (and so eloquently!)

I have considered homeschooling but the "problem" is that DD is SO excited to go to preschool in the fall (she is 4). This will be her first real school experience and she talks about it at least once per day (sometimes 40!) Luckily, it seems like a great school and well, it's only 2 hours for 3 mornings a week. So I struggle with that issue - how can you homeschool a child that is very eager to go to school? She talks about playing with the other kids, eating lunch with them, etc. . .I sense that she would be crushed if I told her that she had to stay home with me. ???

I'm curious about this too...

My daughter went to preschool for 2.5 hours three days a week this school year. Last year it was the same amount of time for two days a week. Since she has an October birthday she has one more year of pre-school and she'll go four days a week for yes, 2.5 hours. For her this is a perfect amount time. Her last day of school was Wednesday. She's already cried today because usually "Friday's are school days." She's crushed that she can't go.

My daughter loves schoool so far. SHE LOVES IT. I can only hope this continues and I'll do everything in my power to choose the right place for her to go to kindergarten.

QUESTION:

Homeschooled kids obviously do lots of stuff outside the house to learn and have some hands on experience. What do you do if your 6 year old says "why can't I go to school with all of them." (Sees another class at the aquarium for example) After you explain, what if they won't let it go?

I'm sure a lot of homeschooled kids have friends who go to tranditional schools? Maybe I'm wrong??? What do you do if they "beg to go to regular school?"

And Annie - I, again, agree with most of what you have said but what about the issue of "what do you do when they REALLY WANT to go to school"? I'm really, really curious about this, REALLY.

Honestly, I had intended on homeschooling until we settled down in a permanent place but this girl is just bursting at the seams to get out of the house and go to school. It is almost like she WANTS to get away from me (I didn't know that it happened so young!) Example: I am going to sign her up for swimming classes later this summer and I told her that there was a class where the kids are in the pool with their parents and a class where the kids are alone with the teacher. She didn't even hesitate: See ya, mom.

I'm thankful that I don't have to really think about this yet, though. Preschool is just, well, preschool! And the kindergarten for the following year seems really excellent (I think it is just AM class and all of the kids go home for lunch - they actually send junior high and high school kids home for lunch, too!) We are paying out the *@& in taxes for this so I fully expect the school to be great. After that, I will definitely have to revisit this issue.

??????

[DCJenn]

The #1 reason why we're planning on sending Nikolai to our local elementary school is the language immersion program. Even if I were to homeschool (and I've accepted that I more than likely couldn't do it) I most certainly couldn't do it in Spanish.

But...we live in a very small community within a very large city. It's really the way schools used to be- everyone who goes to the elementary school walks there. The classroom sizes are small and there are lots of music and arts programs available both in the school and in the community. I live in the arts district after all!

I think back to the size of my elementary school and the heart stops. Add to it I was part of that failed experiement in open classrooms and it's amazing that I learned anything. Actually, I blame my math issues on the fact that I was sitting in a giant auditorium sized room with 10 other classes sitting there too. Who could pay attention in that environment. I used to sneak out and go over to the other classrooms and wave to my friends.

I agree also that kindergarten is getting stupidly long. I went for morning kindergarten and it was fine. Went to school, did my thing, had lunch, took a nap, played. nothing wrong with that agenda!

Jenn

[Flynn]

Even though dealing with jerks certainly isn't a fun aspect of school, I think it's very important for my kids because those jerks don't disappear after you graduate. They're still around and learning survival/coping skills (even if it's just how to effectively ignore them) are exceedingly important to their ability to navigate through life once they're on their own. Which, if you ask me, is one of the points of being a parent in the first place.

I agree, but I don't think school is the only place you encounter fartknockers. (that word cracks me up) I think this falls under the assumption that you homeschool at home with the doors locked...bolted...boarded. Most homeschooling families learn concepts outside of the home in the context of real life. Field trips abound because they aren't constrained by school schedules. You can't walk around the corner these days without bumping into a fartknocker. :P Most are also involved in an abundance of lessons, groups, organizations, etc. I think the primary difference being the child to adult ratio which allows for more adult intervention/role modeling.

I'll admit this is a very unconventional idea that took years to grow on me. It's hard to imagine life without school, but once I really started to consider it with an truly open mind it slowly unfolded from there.

Looking back, from my experience I met a lot of different kinds of people in my public high school that I would NEVER have come into contact with had I been homeschooled. No way. I could never have duplicated this experiece in a class or on a field trip.

I find this type of interaction I had in school invaluable. One area that has shaped me to this day was my interactions and in some cases close friendships with people of other races and faiths. I was able to interact with different people everyday in a small (jr. high and high school) environment with and WITHOUT adults. In a large, diverse homeschooling community of course this can be achieved to a degree.

This is all so curious to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I SOOOO don't "get" this to the core of my being. I'm really trying though!!!

Example: I am going to sign her up for swimming classes later this summer and I told her that there was a class where the kids are in the pool with their parents and a class where the kids are alone with the teacher. She didn't even hesitate: See ya, mom.

My second is like that. Both of my kids love school which really amazes me in some ways because I was not as fond of it, even that early on in first grade. If they felt differently or it was a struggle, I would be grateful for options like HS or the other schools in our area. Perhaps it is because they have gone and if they hadn't, they wouldn't miss it?? I do think friendships can be forged early on. It is unusual, but DD1 is still very close to and talks often about a friend from preschool that we keep in touch with. I can't believe after three years that they are still close with not much parent intervention other than dialing the phone or typing email on their behalf. I think that is not the norm.

[Flynn]

I agree also that kindergarten is getting stupidly long. I went for morning kindergarten and it was fine. Went to school, did my thing, had lunch, took a nap, played. nothing wrong with that agenda!

Jenn

I agree with this 100%. Kindergarten is being extended in many areas due to parents SCREAMING for it and schools losing money to daycare. :|

Annie -- 9 hours is completely SILLY for kindergarten. :huh:

9 hours is silly for any elementary, moreso for kindergarten. :huh:

Annie, if I were you (and I know I am not ), I would give it a try and get a part-time nanny to help with the other kids.

Annie I absolutely love reading your posts. I just had to say that. How did you learn to express yourself so well?

iMSNers need to put all of their collective wisdom into a book; rather a series of books.

[Rapunzel]

Looking back, from my experience I met a lot of different kinds of people in my public high school that I would NEVER have come into contact with had I been homeschooled. No way. I could never have duplicated this experiece in a class or on a field trip.

I find this type of interaction I had in school invaluable. One area that has shaped me to this day was my interactions and in some cases close friendships with people of other races and faiths. I was able to interact with different people everyday in a small (jr. high and high school) environment with and WITHOUT adults. In a large, diverse homeschooling community of course this can be achieved to a degree.

This is all so curious to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I SOOOO don't "get" this to the core of my being. I'm really trying though!!!

And, this is the type of interaction my own children have experienced homeschooling.

You can be as insular or as extroverted as you want with homeschooling. My children have had the time to become friends with people of other faiths and races - more so than they would have in any of the school districts in which we have lived. Additionally, my children have learned to make friends - and good friends, at that - with children of all different ages. That is a highly important social interaction largely missing in today's public schools. In fact, the culture of public schools often fosters an odd antagonism between those who are in different birth years. So, my children are good friends with kids who are anywhere from five years younger to five years older than them! I would also add to this that my children have learned how to interact with adults better than they would in public schools. They are often daily exposed to a wide range of adults - both strangers, acquaintances, and friends. The goal is that they be able to interact equally well with someone who is 8 and someone who is 80.

When I went to school I was surrounded by other children all born in my exact same birth year (or within roughly six months before and after myself), all from the same socio-economic background (because I attended a neighborhood school), and largely of the same ethnic background (again because it was a neighborhood school). While I see the enormous positives of neighborhood schools and the cohesion they bring to a community vs. the highly negative effects I have seen with busing I still want something more for my children. And, so far, homeschooling has successfully given that to my kids.

Additionally, I must add that once I entered middle school "cliques" became a very important part of social life. This certainly has not changed. And, these cliques were usually impediments to stepping outside of one's comfort zone. They were huge impediments to those of varying ethnicities actually meaningfully interacting with one another. High school was the same. In many ways cliques are a survival skill - they are a form of "family" just as gangs are in that they provide a "safe" environment where the child feels others and the culture are familiar. Unfortunately, these cliques can sometimes literally replace the importance of the child's family because of their social and cultural prominence and the emphasis so many parents have on wanting their children to "fit in".

So, instead of being locked up in classrooms for hours and hours during a normal weekday with the same two to four adults and the same set of children from roughly the same background my children have had the ability to experience real life - something that normal public schooled children only experience on the weekends and *maybe* after they get into high school but often not even until they enter college or the workforce!

EDIT: I meant to add this and completely forgot: There are soooo many social and extracurricular options available for homeschoolers that it is very hard to pick and choose! We have had to actually cut down on outside activities from time to time in order to emphasize academics or because they were cutting into family time in the evenings! Here is a smattering of the social interactions we have as choices: Cub Scouts, chess club, Lego Mindstorm club, various park-day playgroups, fencing (yup, during the day), ballet (again, during the day), swimming lessons and teams, church children's group activities on Wed. nights, etc. The list can just go on and on!! I can honestly give my children as much social interaction as their little hearts desire.

[Rapunzel]

Homeschooled kids obviously do lots of stuff outside the house to learn and have some hands on experience. What do you do if your 6 year old says "why can't I go to school with all of them." (Sees another class at the aquarium for example) After you explain, what if they won't let it go?

I'm sure a lot of homeschooled kids have friends who go to tranditional schools? Maybe I'm wrong??? What do you do if they "beg to go to regular school?"

I'm not sure. I'm glad to be homeschooling from the start. I hope to keep life very interesting and busy, including lots of interactions with friends. It could become a real issue if they just *have* to go to school. :huh: I see this more of an issue at junior high age than elementary, but maybe I'm wrong. Peers become much more significant at that age which is why I'd probably put them in school starting at junior high. I would probably tell them they will go to school, just a little later.

Given the growing number of families that are homeschooling, especially during the early years, I think there is a way to work it out without scarring them for life. :P

This has popped up from time to time. Generally it was with the first three kids (my son and twin daughters) asking me why they were not going to public school. I would tell them in words understandable by a five year old why they were going to gain their education in a more unique manner. And, we didn't waiver in our decision (dh and I) on what we had decided was best for our children. Therefore, it just became part of life - like getting dressed in the morning or taking a bath at night. We didn't make a big deal of it so our children haven't really thought of it as a big deal.

Most of their friends are currently public school students. None of the kids have indicated it matters in the slightest. And, usually when it has come up with their friends the conversation goes something like this:

Friend, "So, what school do you go to?"
My child, "I homeschool."
Friend, "That's cool."

And, the conversation moves off into other, more important things - like Legos or ponies (depending upon the child).

The most interesting experience I have had tangental to this is my time teaching innercity youth for our church. They were intrigued when they found out I homeschool our children. And, several of them commented in various conversations, "I wish my mom homeschooled me." That was eye-opening - to hear a teenager wish he were homeschooled rather than attend a public school.

So, we haven't really had any tantrum throwing or crushed dreams from homeschooling. Because, it is just a natural extension of our lives. We treat it as an entirely "normal" thing and the kids view it as such.

[Flynn]

Looking back, from my experience I met a lot of different kinds of people in my public high school that I would NEVER have come into contact with had I been homeschooled. No way. I could never have duplicated this experiece in a class or on a field trip.

I find this type of interaction I had in school invaluable. One area that has shaped me to this day was my interactions and in some cases close friendships with people of other races and faiths. I was able to interact with different people everyday in a small (jr. high and high school) environment with and WITHOUT adults. In a large, diverse homeschooling community of course this can be achieved to a degree.

This is all so curious to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I SOOOO don't "get" this to the core of my being. I'm really trying though!!!

Additionally, my children have learned to make friends - and good friends, at that - with children of all different ages. That is a highly important social interaction largely missing in today's public schools. In fact, the culture of public schools often fosters an odd antagonism between those who are in different birth years. So, my children are good friends with kids who are anywhere from five years younger to five years older than them! I would also add to this that my children have learned how to interact with adults better than they would in public schools. They are often daily exposed to a wide range of adults - both strangers, acquaintances, and friends. The goal is that they be able to interact equally well with someone who is 8 and someone who is 80.

When I went to school I was surrounded by other children all born in my exact same birth year (or within roughly six months before and after myself), all from the same socio-economic background (because I attended a neighborhood school), and largely of the same ethnic background (again because it was a neighborhood school). While I see the enormous positives of neighborhood schools and the cohesion they bring to a community vs. the highly negative effects I have seen with busing I still want something more for my children. And, so far, homeschooling has successfully given that to my kids.

Additionally, I must add that once I entered middle school "cliques" became a very important part of social life. This certainly has not changed. And, these cliques were usually impediments to stepping outside of one's comfort zone. They were huge impediments to those of varying ethnicities actually meaningfully interacting with one another. High school was the same. In many ways cliques are a survival skill - they are a form of "family" just as gangs are in that they provide a "safe" environment where the child feels others and the culture are familiar. Unfortunately, these cliques can sometimes literally replace the importance of the child's family because of their social and cultural prominence and the emphasis so many parents have on wanting their children to "fit in".

Interacting with different ages is very important and NOT something I think the traditional schools (generally) do well in the current system. I agree with the above statements for the most part.

More things to think about!

My sisters and I were homeschooled through elementary school. It was great for us! We had so many experiences (traveling and taking classes that aren't offered in a traditional school environment) that we never would have had otherwise. I started in public school in high school and had no trouble jumping and making new friends and adjusting to the different schedule and demands. We had a wonderful homeschool group in the area so we had sports teams and tons of extracurriculars.

[planet]

Whew...I *just* read through some of this thread. On the fly....

Annie,

You address very well many things that led me to make our decision to homeschool. I would add to those that we also prefer the flexiblity of striking when the brain is hot, which occurs at different times of day and different stages for different kids. Also, we like to go places. No, we won't be making it to China while talking about the Yangtze River (though ds did get to talk to a firend of mine about it since her family is from China...kids love to have their world reinforced from others) but we did go to the aquarium to see a pacific octopus after reading a book about sea creatures. You can do these things with kids in school. We just have more time for it. Dh and I also both hold a strong appreciation for the arts. We just like that our kids get regular outings to museums, listen to music while doing workbooks, and have PE that includes climbing trees and hiking. The greatest downside for me so far is the constant feeling that the unltimate responsibility is mine. Failure is mine. Discpline is mine. He goes to classes, but for the most part there is no single teacher for me to get exhasperated at aside form myself. That is more oppressive to me than I can convey, though I keep hoping that it is because we are just starting out. I never felt such weight from a job before.

And a recent reason is that around here boys are being put on ridilin like its candy. I've headr a few discussions among moms, and it is its own debate I'm sure, but whether it is for financial gain (schools get money for it I hear) or control purposes (boys are too rowdy nowadays), it makes me even more content with our decision.

On the other hand, I also get a lot of fulfillment out of the research aspect. Just filing through the many, many resources and putting together plans has been rewarding. We are starting with Five in a Row in part becuase it is a good modelt hat I wnat to use with books we select ourselves as well. I love that I have a job that makes me stretch.

I think you would have a blast with it and do a great job. I would love to talk to you more about it.


Flynn,
The issue of going to school to meet others different from yourself...well, it absolutely happens with homeschooling. We don't really keep the kids at home any more than a SAHM really stays in the house eating bon bons. My son very much wants a school to be part of...his school...to which I want to be sensitive and understanding. He is welcome to go to preschool. As for elementary and beyond...I have noticed that the more homeschoolers he meets the less the traditional school model seems so inviting. Ds has had two years running of a prgram where he performs in front of a packed auditorium of 200!! Something I could never do btw, but he loves. His class has remained consistent for those two years. The kids are very attached to each other and I am the only one who homeschools. You couldn't pick my guy out of the crowd based on this for sure. He will be on the soccer team with the rest of the neghborhood kids. We host moms things, etc. I would say the main difference is that he doesn't have adult models around that we don't like. I personally see no reason a kid should be in a position to have bad behavior taught be an adult authority. I think if this were the case I would end up with one of those kids who talked back to the teacher. Not for us.

I hear when people say it isn't for them. I agree that this is a choice a parent has to make thoughtfully.

Sorry for the typos and spelling...I'm sure I'll reread and cringe later. And, as often happens since I am late to post, sorry for any redundancy.

[diggitydot]

Am I the only one here who thinks it odd that people don't educate their kids at school and at home? Our kids sometimes get more science, math, and history work with us than they do at school. Not because their school is deficient, but because we make it a point to explain what we're doing and why we're doing it or why something is happening.

It just strikes me as odd that some think the only people who should be teaching their kids are those working in the schools.