Stop Setting Alarms on My Biological Clock

[rainbabies]

This woman walked straight up to her from about 50 yards away and put her hand on her belly without even saying hi, introducing herself, or looking my coworker in the eye. My coworker waited 5 seconds and then without a word, reached out and grabbed the woman's breast. The woman jumped back, shocked, and said, "What are you doing??"" And my coworker smiled and said, "Oh, I thought we were having an inapproproate touching contest, I win!!" and walked away. Apparently she got this idea from a pregnancy blog or something.

Not exactly my style but completely brillant if you're willing to grab other people.

OMG!!! That is AWESOME!! I mean, it's probably civil sexual assault, but she totally deserved it..AWESOME!

that is the best thing EVER!! OMG!!!

This woman walked straight up to her from about 50 yards away and put her hand on her belly without even saying hi, introducing herself, or looking my coworker in the eye. My coworker waited 5 seconds and then without a word, reached out and grabbed the woman's breast. The woman jumped back, shocked, and said, "What are you doing??"" And my coworker smiled and said, "Oh, I thought we were having an inapproproate touching contest, I win!!" and walked away. Apparently she got this idea from a pregnancy blog or something.

Not exactly my style but completely brillant if you're willing to grab other people.

OMG!!! That is AWESOME!! I mean, it's probably civil sexual assault, but she totally deserved it..AWESOME!

So if I do that to someone I can say "My lawyer (you know you're ours, right) says it's justified."

Honestly I'll say that that sounds to me like something someone would LOVE to have done, and may tell people they did, but unlikely (am I too meek?) that they really did it.

[Momo]

This woman walked straight up to her from about 50 yards away and put her hand on her belly without even saying hi, introducing herself, or looking my coworker in the eye. My coworker waited 5 seconds and then without a word, reached out and grabbed the woman's breast. The woman jumped back, shocked, and said, "What are you doing??"" And my coworker smiled and said, "Oh, I thought we were having an inapproproate touching contest, I win!!" and walked away. Apparently she got this idea from a pregnancy blog or something.

Not exactly my style but completely brillant if you're willing to grab other people.

OMG!!! That is AWESOME!! I mean, it's probably civil sexual assault, but she totally deserved it..AWESOME!

So if I do that to someone I can say "My lawyer (you know you're ours, right) says it's justified."

Honestly I'll say that that sounds to me like something someone would LOVE to have done, and may tell people they did, but unlikely (am I too meek?) that they really did it.

The sister of my childhood best friend, totally does stuff like that ; she would be the PG lady that would grab the tummy tucher's boob, to get even /make a point!

[pstone]

Look, the belly touching is your own deal, if you don't like it say so. I would NEVER touch a woman's belly because I thought she was pregnant..NEVER.

I was talking about that article by that bitter woman that things everyone is out to control her life. GIVE ME A BREAK.

Perhaps she is so freaking annoying that it is the only thing they feel remotley 'safe' talking to her about.

I suppose I am just tired of people that bash kids and families all the freaking time thinking that families and kids are so awful today or something.

But I get it now, probably the ones that do were the BAD kids, or the screaming kids, etc....hits close to home or something.

give me a break, tell people that you don't want kids then....


sorry, not sure why this bothers me....that article had me so annoyed for a few hours...future cat lady that gives presents to all the kids on her block because she has none of her own.

[spotty_dog]

I was talking about that article by that bitter woman that things everyone is out to control her life. GIVE ME A BREAK.

Exactly. This was what really torqued me off. The title of the article confirmed what I felt from the content, which was that she's holding her childlessness over the rest of us as a threat: she demands that every parent, but specifically mothers, A) gets a job or career they're passionate about MORE than they're passionate about raising their children; B) trains their child to jump through social hoops with absolute perfection by the age of two; and C) quits foisting their crotch-dropping on adult society -- which has every right, of course, to completely ignore that children exist. Until those criteria are met, this author is going to remain childless, and it's OUR FAULT.

Um, have fun being the cat lady?

In the meantime I'm going to raise my son because there's nothing else I'd rather be doing; I'm going to accept that he might behave rudely while he's still a CHILD and still learning the lessons I'm teaching him (though I'd of COURSE not condone hitting someone); and sometimes, I'm going to bring my infant to a dinner event, movie, or party because I don't have anyone to leave him with.

Do you know what's really fun, is that the fact that I LOVE and WANT my child, complete with his flaws AND the flaws of mothers everywhere, totally trumps this author's slew of credentials from "infantilizing her dogs" to taking early-childhood education courses. So HA! :P

[DCJenn]

I don't get the defensiveness-

I don't think she's saying remove all kids from all environments bu like Lily, I'm tired of being assaulted by other people's obnoxious children who are being expected BY THEIR PARENTS to behave like automatrons in completely inappropriate places. or conversely, the parents don't seem to care that they're ruining other peoples experiences by placing their children in those situations.

Do you expect to be able to carry on a conversation or work on your laptop at a park? No. At the zoo? No. At a 'family-friendly' restaurant? no. But at a coffee shop? Yes, I would expect that I could sit at my laptop and speak to colleagues via cell phone or study or whatever without being in the middle of a play date. If I'm out to dinner with my husband at a decent restaurant after 8pm, I expect to be able to carry on a conversation and not have to fight above someone's screaming child.

I'm sorry but the fact that I have a child doesn't give me the right to place unrealistic expectations on him because I need adult conversation. nor should other people be expected to tolerate him when he's having a melt down.

Now then, Nikolai and I go out to eat once a week. We go to nice restaurants. We go early and I bring things for him to do. He is very well-behaved. But, I have also asked the waiter to wrap up our food and bring me the check if he's acting up. The only way to learn to act in a nice place is to go.

and seriously- this child is the light of my life but I find his father to be a much more interesting conversationalist. It's not Nikolai who will be sitting across the dinner table from me in 20 years. My job is to teach him to be a responsible human being. It's not to suffocate him with mommy time. There are events and places and times when children are not appropriate. period. That's why there are babysitters.

Jenn

I guess I've been where this author is, but over time and through experiencing friends having kids I've seen it go both ways - they either keep my childless ass or they fade us out in favor of other couples who are willing to go to a Wiggles concert instead of, say, Red Hot Chili Peppers.

For the record Lily: I'd keep your childless ass in the fold, AND I'd always go to a Red Hot Chili Peppers concert .... never the Wiggles.

ITA it's got to be a balance, and it's hard not to let yourself get swallowed up by all things kiddie, but you have to do it (or at least I did). I'm willing to *try* to do more kid-free things than a lot of people I know. For me it's a matter of getting / paying sitters rather than not being willing.

My kids and their upbringing is the most important thing to me (as I'm sure it is for every parent here). BUT in order for me to be the best parent I can be, I do need some alone time.

As for the kids to places not meant for them - I've done it. I'm sure I've probably ruined someone's coffee for them (although I do not allow poor behavior to go on - I'll leave). Fancy restaurants, formal dinners, weddings, etc. I don't go if I can't get a sitter. I've learned the hard way that it's just not worth it. I don't enjoy myself, the kids are miserable, and it impacts other people's evening. We were often expected to bring the boys to very formal Indian events and I hated it.

[rainbabies]

you can bet your bippy

i think its actually, 'you can bet your sweet bippy'

[planet]

Just something to think about....

When you don't have kids I think the badly behaved ones are more obvious. Lots of kids go to restaurants and coffee shops. Mine have been to bookstores dozens times. On a very few occassions there were meltdowns. For me...the percentage is good. For the other folks in the store on the one very bad meltdown I can recall...I was an abysmal parent. The childless or child-unfamiliar person may not know yet that young kids will suddenly and unexpectedly freak out over basically nothing.

Yes, we leave. But we leave an unpleasant imprint on someone already wary of kids.

Janet,

Perhaps you have a point. But I don't have kids but still am able to understand a meltdown - teething, crying, wanting to run around when the location is suited for it...

However, I get more ticked at how the parent responds. Sure, s/he can't always roll out of the place -- thinking of a lone parent grocery shopping. S/he can't immediately leave. I get that.

But...along the lines of what Lily said, I look at the response of the parent (given constraints).

Like Lily, a recent coffee-shop scenario comes to mind. Parent (of at least one of the two boys) comes in with what I think was her adult friend (male) -- don't think he was either boy's father, just a neighbor.

Anyway, the woman was so incredibly loud (wanted the place to know she was a regular) when talking to the owner. Kind of like cell-phone talkers whose eyes scan the bus, street, theatre, etc. to see (they hope) that all eyes are on them.

Then male buddy literally drops to the ground in the coffee shop and wrestles with the boys (ages 4 - 5). Of course, poor kids think it's gymboree. Screams of laughter. And mom ratcheting up her alroudy insance decibel level to stay above the screams. [P.S. this would be perfectly a-ok and perhaps cute in a park ... but not in the middle of a small coffee shop].

That lasts for few minutes.

Anyway, I felt sorry for the kids (not their fault) but I certainly felt held hostage by her "I'm fun, cool mom" display.

I can only imagine what goes on in other scenarios with her and her kids.

PS - I didn't read the article - just wanted to be part of the thread!!!

[pstone]

I still don't get it....everyone, all of you, and anyone else ever alive was a KID, and I assure you all of us threw trantrums, mis behaved and were horrible at some time. That is LIFE! There is a child free zone called home in every childless persons life.

I don't take my kid to formals, to places where more then a faint scream would ruin the event....like a wedding. Just started taking my kid to movies, and he is all over the seat...get over it. If he screams or is loud I would leave, but don't expect a 2.5 year old to sit still, and you did not sit still when you were 2.5

Kids are not misbehaving if they talk loud, get excited, or are having fun, regardless of anyones desire for quite coffee. I of course get that some people like quiet coffee, or newspaper reading, but to me public means public because it is.

Speak with the manager perhaps? I would never stay someplace with my kid that I was asked to leave, or where I was told they wanted it like a funeral home.

I suppose if someone brought their kid to the chili peppers that people think they were a bad parent.

I am all for people not having kids if they don't want them, but don't expect the rest of the world to keep their kids at home because of it. And I don't understand when people don't realize kids are ah...kids.

Of course there are kids that are totally out of control, but that is the parents, not the kids.

Just something to think about....

When you don't have kids I think the badly behaved ones are more obvious. Lots of kids go to restaurants and coffee shops. Mine have been to bookstores dozens times. On a very few occassions there were meltdowns. For me...the percentage is good. For the other folks in the store on the one very bad meltdown I can recall...I was an abysmal parent. The childless or child-unfamiliar person may not know yet that young kids will suddenly and unexpectedly freak out over basically nothing.

Yes, we leave. But we leave an unpleasant imprint on someone already wary of kids.

Good point, Janet. I know we have left an impression in some public places and an airplane (that was the 2003 birth control promotion tour).

But I really do think that if your kids are misbehaving, you have to leave (unless you are on a plane zooming down a runway). Parents need to help kids learn how to act in public and part of that is taking them out to restaurants and bookstores and the like. And people without kids have to realize they will see kids during daylight hours and that kids have a higher pitch voice and wiggly bodies (not that anyone here is really complaining about that). When I see someone doing what Kevin mentioned --like wrestling on the floor of a coffee shop -- it embarasses me as a parent and I feel sorry for the kids.

Peter,

I think you're knocking down a straw man i.e. that anyone who expresses displeasure at some outrageous behavior by parents (not blaming the kids) wants to revert Victorian era "seen but not heard" world. I don't want or expect kids to not laugh, wriggle around, etc. And most reasonable people (even those who don't have kids) don't want that either.

Most people are talking about extreme examples where kids in effect hold everyone hostage and their parents think that's cute and exacerbate the behavior e.g. by wrestling in the middle of the floor.

People get it that childhood is special and kids just can't be little adults. But there are times when common sense and courtesy for others is breached -- and that is the parents' fault (not the kids').

I get it that you don't do that with your kids (and that most people don't do these outrageous things).

But do you really think kids (at the adult's suggestion) literally rolling around and screaming at the top of their lungs in the middle of the coffee shop is an example of common sense or courtesy for others?

Or that anyone who finds a scene like that innappropriate simply needs to stay at home?

Most people are talking about extreme examples where kids in effect hold everyone hostage and their parents think that's cute and exacerbate the behavior e.g. by wrestling in the middle of the floor.

People get it that childhood is special and kids just can't be little adults. But there are times when common sense and courtesy for others is breached -- and that is the parents' fault (not the kids).

ITA.

ETA: I think that people picture certain scenarios in their head and that everyone's is not the same (and why isn't everyone picturing MY scenario? :>).

Here is one specific thing I am thinking. A friend of mine has kids who consistently misbehave in public and she consistently allows and makes some weak attempts to tell them to stop. It has gotten in the way of us doing things together in public because I don't enjoy time out with her kids.

The last time I went somewhere with her, we drove together. I told her before I left what time I needed to leave meet the bus (her older child was also on the bus) and when we left I mentioned we needed to leave then for that reason. Her child completely melted down because he didn't want to leave. I get that -- my kids have done that and it sometimes IS hard for kids to quit playing and leave. Here is the part I don't get -- 15 minutes of negotiating with him to leave and then to get in the car. It is inconsiderate for everyone in the restaurant to hear him *scream* and to me for making us wait. Sometimes you have to just put them in the car and buckle them in! This is not a one time thing and has happened a lot with her. She has also told me that she worries about her kids "not liking her." This is the sort of thing I am thinking of and I think she is doing a huge disservice to her kids.

[SuzySunshine]

Most people are talking about extreme examples where kids in effect hold everyone hostage and their parents think that's cute and exacerbate the behavior e.g. by wrestling in the middle of the floor.

People get it that childhood is special and kids just can't be little adults. But there are times when common sense and courtesy for others is breached -- and that is the parents' fault (not the kids).

ITA.

Kids will be kids, even those of us without them get that - but when parents don't take responsibility for those kids' actions in some public situations they should be ashamed. It goes back to my whole argument about parents being more concerned about being their kids friends instead of their PARENT!