Stop Setting Alarms on My Biological Clock

[pstone]

Maybe as a culture we can start to have more day cares or perhaps coffee cares so kids will never be in public with people.

I leave places if my kid is mis-behaving, but I now imagine that to some all kids are always misbehaving.

Re-reading that article makes me sick. Not everyone identifies themselves with their kids, and yet still feels it is the most important job. Perhaps instead of harboring all that hate, the woman could tell people, "I am not ready for kids, or I have to wait till I have enough money to pay someone else to watch them."

I go away now...sorry

[planet]

MOMMEEEEEE!!!

[pstone]

Just don't throw a national tantrum at Newsweek. Where's her mother?

EXACTLY, WHY DID I NOT SAY IT SO WELL!!

Maybe as a culture we can start to have more day cares or perhaps coffee cares so kids will never be in public with people.

I leave places if my kid is mis-behaving, but I now imagine that to some all kids are always misbehaving

Peter. I didn't read the article. But I'm guessing she [author] wasn't mentioning a coffee tantrum -- like I did in my one example. I was searching for an example of something clearly innappropriate -- that reasonable people -- like you and other parents on this board wouldn't subject others to with impunity.

So, your snarky restatement (directed at me) but not addressing me actually affirms my take of your "straw man".

Or actually it's really a false choice as well -- either one tolerates everything that a kid might do in public for a long-extended period of time
as completely acceptable OR if not considered acceptable than the only alternative is that the person who finds something unnacceptable [in the coffee example me] is someone who doesn't want to see the little ones breath the same air as me in public.

This reasoning is ludicrous.

[Sheherezade]

I think this is the next battleground in "The Mommy Wars". Since we can't seem to decide if it is *really* OK to work while parenting or SAH and sacrifice your brain to mommyhood , we've moved on to the debate on whether to bear children at all. Sounds like the best way to avoid the dilemma. I wish I'd thought of it. :> Then, I wouldn't have to think about balance all the time. Balance sucks. It's a nightmare. It's much easier to pick a side.

I took the whole comment on rude children as a cop out. Some kids will always be rude.

Coffee shops are not adult only areas. Get over that idea. Starbucks has made a ton off selling stuffed animals to my kids and has been a staple in my children's after school diet. The managers LOVE them, and in Boston half the shop was teenagers from the high school that had been coming since elementary grades. It's the McDonalds of the future. So....bring your laptop, but don't expect to be child free unless you go to an establishment that stresses that. I've never been in a coffee shop that does.

And Kev......you best realize that those mommy coffee shop regulars RULE Federal Hill. That's why I loved it there. :> There's lots and lots of mommies - and they are totally connected.

And Kev......you best realize that those mommy coffee shop regulars RULE Federal Hill. That's why I loved it there. There's lots and lots of mommies - and they are totally connected.

Actually, it was one example - not something I toss and turn about at night with PTSD - like flashbacks.

How many times must one type (in this case) that he doesn't mind the little ones because he tried to share one example of a rude parent. It's hard to convey how obnoxious this was. I'm fairly confident even mommies and daddies on the board would nod their heads in agreement had they been witness....but then again, maybe I shouldn't be so sure!

Oh, and again out of laziness I didn't read the article or the entire thread but perhaps I should've known how hot-button this would be...

[Sheherezade]

I'm just shocked that you saw me and my male friend there the other day! Don't tell my DH.

[DCJenn]

Fact: All kids misbehave

Fact: Reasonable people know this.

It's not an all or nothing issue (as Kevin much more eloquently put it) and I don't think the original author ever said that she wasn't ever going ot have children, merely that people assuming that she is unfulfilled because she doesn't particularly when those assumptions are being made by people who have no control over their own children is annoying at best.

and to Peter's point- I do 100% believe that there are place where no child should be brought. A Ministry concert immediately springs to mind but so does the Saturday evening symphony, dinner at a chi-chi restuarant, etc.

No one here has said that children shouldn't be seen in public. What the heck is up with that?

Jenn

Tara,

It's not possible in all situations but maybe at that wedding where the five year olds were running crazy someone could have offered to take them outside.

Perhaps with a caveat though...and an experienced mom (or dad) with some close ties to the parents of the children?

Maybe I'm all wrong but if I as a man (without kids) and especially without close ties to the parents of the kids...my guess is that parents would be offended / annoyed / worried a child predator was on the loose, etc. etc.

Am I jaded or off-base? Or very different experiences than you?

And aside from that...maybe I want to see my friends get married in that scenario rather than shepharding the children of others. :huh:

[planet]

You are so right about Starbucks...they totally welcome kids and court them. There's a reason they have the kid's cocoa on the menu and pretty butterfly cookies up front. In fact a lot of places that some adults think should have fewer wigglers know the benefits of marketing to the little set. I don't know that this needs to be an arguement... Pollyanna...but there's the issue of diminishing territory. It is a bit new, in the long history of childrearing, to have a social structure that has these walls around childreaering. To meet the need for space, an entire crop of kids' entertainment places have taken hold. Problem...these places are extremely expensive. We'll have to get along because kids are here to stay (or there's not going to be anyone to complain ) There are times I feel boxed in to the playgrounds, museums, zoos, backyards etc.

I'm just shocked that you saw me and my male friend there the other day! Don't tell my DH.

Your hubby wouldn't worry about this friend. And I know you wouldn't be screaming and scanning the room for attention all the while. Eyes would be riveted to you without you saying a word.

Janet,

I'm starting to think people are purposefully being obtuse!! Not a starbucks and in my little example (should've stuck to generalities perhaps) ... I'm not talking about wriggling, laughing, just being a kid. I'm talking about a mom screaming her conversation with the proprieter while scanning the room and then her friend literally wrestling (and screaming) on the middle of the floor with four or five year olds for a few minutes.

I'm starting to think that perhaps even parents who always comport themselves with respect themselves and teach their children to respect others as well...who have no reason to see a complaint as an indictment of them...and have been told that none of this refers to them...can't help but see this as an "us" versus "them" issue.

I realize there do exist folks who don't want to see a kid anywhere...I'm just not one of them...and I never thought my examples would lend themselves to that conclusion. :huh:

[planet]

Oops, sorry Annie, I misunderstood your post.

Tara,

I get the larger point about trying to empathize with others and how that can lead to helping out more often.

Perhaps it's just my own perspective (that might change) but I just don't see most folks being glad for unsolicited support in anything related to childbearing.

Not passing a value judgement on that just that I would be prepared for folks to be offended - thinking the involvement meant I was reprimanding them or their kids. :huh:

Annie,

But I didn't break out my national megaphone and to berate mothers and spat that they are the reason I'm not having children.

I didn't either. I probably should've read the original article. Though I stated explicitly that I didn't read it, wasn't commenting on it..etc., it would've provided me with part of the context by way of emotional fallout that probably has impacted the lens folks use when they read the thread....

And if I had read it...I probably would've decided not to contribute to the thread...

[planet]

I wasn't responding to you Kevin (cooking lunch at the same time so the post was started before yours went in and finished after) and also not making an effort to be obtuse (That would have to be a natural occurance, wouldn't it? :P ). I used the example only to make the point that since parents can't let little Laura Ingels' run down the lane together with their buddies anymore, we often work in the rest of our lives with kids in tow. This particular article sounded just dramatic for its own sake and I don't take it that seriously, but the issue of kids and where they belong and how they behave is real and obviously many of us here even disagree on the answers.

eta: and whether someone should slip their hand under your shirt to feel you belly.