Stop Setting Alarms on My Biological Clock

Janet,

Sorry I misunderstood.

Yes, that's an interesting point...kids are in tow more often since they can't (or aren't allowed) to play outside much.

[planet]

Well, Kevin, its isn't just that. When dh was on call all the time and I still had to live life and couldn't afford a babysitter, that meant that my kids went to places that were sometimes very innapropriate for kids. I doubt anyone was happy with my boys playing cars on the floor at the Verizon wireless store when they (Verizon) messed up the account, asked me to stay and it took hours. I didn't have the option of saying "boys, go run outside and play while I sort this out" and I honestly believe that letting them roll their cars on the carpet was a huge alternative to having them scream or run around the store. Fortunately we had only kind and sympatheitc looks, if any. And if I didn't stay...it would have meant starting from scratch and doing it again. It's just my opinion, but I think city life is hard for kids and moms.

As for the article author;
Even the worst behavior shouldn't be declared as the reason someone decides to or not to have kids of their own. Sheesh...if the lady knows what needs to be done she can go ahead and give it a try herself.

Janet,

I get that...playing with cars is cool...I had matchbox cars as a child.

I actually enjoy city life's louder default decible-range too (child and non-child). Burbs seem incredibly boring by comparison (even from my brief urban sample).

I like to see kids out in the city. Just not adults choosing to rile them up indoors (while being incredibly loud themselves). Having your kids in tow and directing them to play with the cars is very different from two adults riling kids up inside.

Anyway... I know I've said that ad naseum.

I get what you are saying, Kevin! I do!

And I agree with this:

Not passing a value judgement on that just that I would be prepared for folks to be offended - thinking the involvement meant I was reprimanding them or their kids.

I think that does happen in some situations. In case the lend a hand instead of rolling your eyes was directed at me, I have some difficulty doing so with this friend. As someone said, there is often more going on -- and there is in this case. Her management of her kids is a HUGE issue between her and her husband. Most other times, if my hands aren't too full, I help and it is not a problem.

[houseelf]

Great thread...apparently we all have a lot of latent feelings on kids' behavior, what is appropriate behavior, where children belong, and how much we parents give ourselves over to parenting. This has been an enjoyable, thought provoking read.

I promised that I would stay out of this but...I can't.

One thing I have to remark on: UVAgrad wrote:

Perhaps it's just my own perspective (that might change) but I just don't see most folks being glad for unsolicited support in anything related to childbearing.

The problem is that most parents are bombarded daily with unsolicited advice, both subtle and overt. After seven years, I respond to most non-heartfelt comments with "Whatever" or the equivalent. And we all know what I mean: "That baby needs shoes!" "You're going to let him eat chips before lunch?" "Wow, your kids brought their energy today (said in condescending tone)".

The truth of the matter is my kids have acted out, and to be clear, I'm talking some ugly behavior. In fact, I have a photo of my two year old face down crying on the pavement in the middle of Epcot. The truth: her behavior was the result of my poor decision making. I allowed her to skip her nap in order to squeeze in a little more Disney. We all paid for it in spades.

(If you are still with me, there is a point to all this). Parents have a rough job. Everyone is a critic, we're bombarded with messages about kidnapping and pedophelia, and apparently we're absolutely forbidden from using any sort of physical punishment.

I've openly admitted that we use spanking on occasion. I know that this decision can be unpopular, but carefully implemented, it works. In fact, in our house the threat of a swat followed by counting to three is generally enough, even for the almost-three year old.

Spanking and/or stern warnings followed by a football hold has the potential of creating a greater hardship than a temporary meltdown for the parents. We've alll seen those stories on CNN and I don't want some well-meaning passerby to insinuate that I abuse my children either.

The moral of the story is that I feel hamstrung as a parent by all of the constraints which never existed before now. If it sucks to be childless in a society in which children's presence increasingly pervades, it also sucks to be a parent with all of the constraints of today.

Kelly

BTW, I know that there are some adament anti-spanking believers on this board. Please start a new thread if the mood strikes you. I think that we're all in a brawling mood. Must be the start of a new medical year.

Kelly,

I've been through Orlando airport. You are not alone. The context of my unsolicited support quote was an offer to help someone round up kids - not parenting tips. Not sure if that was clear. I wouldn't ever give advice to anyone...I was just countering Tara's suggestion about willingness to help with the fear that the whole issue is so loaded (as you wrote in your intro) that I truly think most people wouldn't want that unsolicited help e.g. rounding up kids (at least not from a young man who is a stranger to them).

I have to say I agree largely with Tara AND Kevin AND Nellie AND Jenn AND Kelly AND Janet AND Lily ...

It's not a one-size-fits-all. In a perfect world kids will behave in public. It's even worse when the adults don't behave or encourage the inappropriate behavior. It's really, really frustrating when you know that the parent's tactics help to create the behavior (as in Nellie's friend). Most of all, you NEVER know the whole story, so even if you must mentally judge -- keep it to yourself (which I think we all do).

[PrincessFiona]

And you all thought I was just a heartless conservative.




Psst, don't let it get out.

See, now seriously, Tara, I read your response and thought.... "she's tiptoeing over to our side, she's tiptoeing over to our side" but I didn't want to spoil it by saying anything. :>

kris

[peggyfromwastate]

I am sort of amazed at such a long thread.

Our kids will act out, at least one of them, when we are traveling, usually getting off the airplain. We don't travel first class, and so who cares. I expect this behavior, and I expect it from other kids, becuase traveling is stressful. The kids scream sometimes, but they don't throw anything and they don't actually hurt anyone, so there you go. If someone wants to take a "no kids flight", they can rent a jet.

Our kids will act out and be removed from a toy store. When they don't get what they want, that's it, we leave. Ditto any store. It rarely happens.

My sisters' kids will act out every time we go to a restaurant. They will crawl under the table, yell, and disturb everyone else in the entire place. I get the evil looks because my nephew is *usually* sitting by my kids. My kids usually hold it together (they will not scream in a restaurant, ever), but it's hard and we talk about "restaurant behavior" a lot. Now, her son is highly-functioning autistic, but his little sister is not, and she behaves exactly the same way. He is 7, and DH and I think my sister and BIL should do more to control the situation. They have NEVER left the restaurant though- and give the kids everything they ask for.

As far as restaurant behavior, I saw a show on TV where the dad was so worried about his kids misbehaving in a restaurant that they never went. And his kids were something like 5 and 3. Kids need to learn, and in most places restaurants are "kid friendly". "Kid friendly" means crayons, and kids menu, not that the kids can run around doing as they please, though, IMO.

It is stressful though, when you think you can not go anywhere with your kids b/c of "ruining it for everyone else." There is a puppet show company here that I would love to take my kids to, but they don't allow for anyone to get up from their seat at all. So, I have never been able to guarantee that my kids will all be perfect for a puppet show, so I just haven't gone, and most likely will not. I find myself making decisions on what we do based on a worst-possible scenario (expecting my kids to fall apart) even though we don't usually have public meltdowns...

It is stressful though, when you think you can not go anywhere with your kids b/c of "ruining it for everyone else." There is a puppet show company here that I would love to take my kids to, but they don't allow for anyone to get up from their seat at all.

I don't think it's ever about "nowhere" at all for kids - especially kids with attentive and responsible parents like those who frequent this site.

And man, if a puppet show ain't for kids...who the *ell is running that piece of marionette merriness ... minus the merriness obviously?

There's no reason the parents couldn't have walked up there, scooped up the kid and taken him out the side door, but they didn't.

So...it did not take a village...Tara...come back to the dark side now!

[PrincessFiona]

So here is why I get bent out of shape about the criticism of children that are sometimes misbehaving or "bad" parents who obviously shouldn't have kids:

Example 1: Today I took my children (5) plus one more (total of 6) out to make the final payment for German camp for next week and complete all registration stuff. The kids were wonderful...they were so well behaved while I filled out a multitude of forms (30 minutes worth) that the lady at the desk commented several times on how well-behaved they were, told me about her son with 5 children whose kids would *never* be so well-behaved and even gave all of the kids (Zoe included) ice cream sandwiches when we were done.

We went to a pizza buffet for lunch and all of the kids were great.

Then we went to get Andrew's cast off. Aidan was kind of hitting meltdown point and Zoe was covered in ice cream sandwich and was screaming her lungs out. I took her out of the buggy and the girls (Amanda and her friend) took Aidan for a little walk in the waiting room to entertain him a little.

I got Zoe calmed down, found a book for Alex and then went to check on Aidan and the girls around the corner. The girls had sat down and Aidan was.... trying to use his bare hands to open up the automatic doors. His weight isn't enough to set it off and so he was groaning and struggling and pulling on the doors.

I quickly went over and said "Oh, No, honey.....we can't play with the doors. I found some great books. Let's go pick one out".

I got the nastiest looks from people and then heard a "I wonder if she has ever considered birth control" comment exchanged between two women who looked like young professionals. I don't know if they think that I heard them or not....but it was just plain rude.

My kids had been fabulous all day...you dumba$$ witch....

The kids were well-behaved in the waiting room for the rest of the time, but only because I was playing a game with Aidan:

"I wonder if Aidan can.....hop like a bunny"
hop, hop, hop

"I wonder if Aidan can hop on one foot"

hop, hop, hop

"I wonder if Aidan can do a twisterooni jump"

twist, jump, twist

More dirty looks

I felt like telling everyone to get bent. People take themselves way too seriously. I didn't have a choice about bringing my 3 year old and 1 year old with me....get over it. They are good kids.


Example #2.

Last week I took Alex to soccer. Amanda, Andrew and Aidan all went over to the park to play (very close by) and I kept Zoe with me. Because of her feet/leg issues right now, she is not wearing shoes. The physical therapist told me to go barefoot as much as possible and that when shoe season comes along, we will look at braces at that time. Because of her weakness, she trips and falls if she has shoes on....

It was a beautiful day and so I let her walk on the grass with me....gasp...BAREFOOT. Oh NO...someone call the dept. of children and family services One of Thomas' colleagues showed up with his snotty wife....she really is a total snob...

She walked up to Zoe when I was standing right there and without looking at me said "oh, you poor thing...do your feet hurt? Did mommy not put shoes on you honey?".

Kiss. My. A$$.

I was absolutely flabbergasted. really. Who ARE these people?
I was so upset by it that I sat in my car for 10 minutes trying to decide how I would politely tell her what to do with her opinion, but my sane, rational side won out and I simply went home.

The best news? The colleague saw Thomas the next day and said "we saw your wife and kids last night at soccer. Your little girl didn't have any shoes on".

Seriously....get a life.

This is what makes me mad about this kind of judgment. If you see someone whose children are misbehaving or who is having a bad mommy/daddy day you are just looking at a snapshot...a moment in time...it doesn't represent all that that child or parent is.


Example #3

We were invited to a colleague's house when Alex was about 2 1/2 or 3 and Andrew and Amanda were in around 1sr/2nd grade or so. This is someone that we knew pretty well and he explicitly invited our children too. This individual had been to our house many times (we were the only couple with kids, so we usually hosted all of the get-togethers in our group of friends. His house was impeccably decorated and he didn't think about the fact that Alex was so little. They all watched a video and then Alex went to the bathroom...and discovered that this guy had a huge pile of polished stones on the cabinet/sink area as decoration. He walked out of the bathroom and with delight said "look, mommy, beautiful" and threw them up into the air....and of course they landed on our group of childless docs.

Alex had done this unintentionally and was very little. I ran to him, explained that he had thrown the rocks and that they had hit people. We picked them up, apologized and I took all of the kids home....even though they protested and said "oh, no...stay".

Then the minute we left, they were all over my husband about how horrible Alex was and what kind of a child threw rocks AT people. He didn't throw them at anyone...he tossed them up into the air in delight and thought they were beautiful.

Come ON people. They were invited. We left when they ran out of good behavior. It is a CHILD.

Man...I have such a headache and this is making me feel crabbier!

Kris,

You're examples are those of non-parents and parents behaving badly and stupidly.

I would be torqued too...

Yet, that doesn't mean that there aren't OTHER parents out there who aren't doing what common sense and age-appropriate choices would dictate.

[PrincessFiona]

Kevin,

I think the judgement that goes back and forth between parents/non-parents/working parents/stay-at-home parents is really toxic. We all end up feeling inadequate, insufficient, and like we much defend our choices (right or wrong ones)....

I get angrier at my kids when they misbehave because of what other people will say/think than because of the misbehavior. After the door incident, we got called back to the little room and I was all "this is a dr's office, not a play area" the second Alex got out of his seat.... It wasn't fair to him since he had been so well behaved all day :huh: I just don't like being judged and there is way too much of it going around...

[SuzySunshine]

But at the same time the author was being judged b/c she didn't have kids - it goes both ways.