Stop Setting Alarms on My Biological Clock

[PrincessFiona]

Wow.....

And now I think I have also inadvertantly hurt two someones over the issue of adoption. Two of the kung fu moms' for Aidan's preschool class adopted from China. They are very open about it. They even brought me a yearbook one day to see pictures of all of the kids adopted from that particular orphanage that year with their new families.

I said something to the effect of "what a wonderful thing you have done for them....bringing them here and giving them such a wonderful life"......

One of the moms looked at me very strange....and I wasn't sure what I had said wrong....except now I think it sounds like I told them that they were doing the kids favors instead of adopting a baby out of love....

I even shared Jenn's Russia story with them and asked them more personal questions about how their adoptions went.



I guess I was just trying to show them 100% acceptance and that I thought their choice was perfect for them......I would have had a similar conversation with someone with children my age if we got to our birth stories too.....

I didn't ask them why they adopted but I do think that I asked if they were considering adopting more.

I think I will just not speak to people anymore

[DCJenn]

I don't think you offended them- it was in the course of them talking about it. You don't have to step on eggshells around the issue! It is a fact that those girls from China are adopted- just like Nikolai is adopted. and it's a great story for the most part. and the fact is that they did give them a better life. I mean Nikolai's orphanage was OK- but I think he's better off with a family of his own!

It's just when people who barely know you seem to have some bizarre interest in who or why we do what we do that it becomes offensive. It's exactly that same as those ladies in the doctor's office with Kris.

and really, like I said, it's getting to be the point where it's no longer my story to tell, but his. When we first got back we told everyone about the journey to get him. Now? Rarely. I think the last time we talked about it with strangers was the application for his new crunchy school because we had to put down place of birth. (and he's going to be one of about 6 internationally adopted kids at the school which is great)

OK- enough of a hijack about me!

Jenn

Because combining DNA with another being is really what is behind it all?

I think that's bunk. Two people can "combine DNA" w/o a second's thought to what it may produce. The real effort in family is the love, perserverance and support it takes to produce well-rounded and healthy people. THAT is what makes mothers, fathers, sisters & brothers.

Do you introduce your sister as your sister or your adopted sister? I think that's the crux of Sylvia's original point. Yes - at the basest, legal stance, she's adopted. But if she's a member of your family then there is no need to make the distinction in general conversation ... unless it's a conversation about adoption.

[peggyfromwastate]

My 11 year old is adopted by my husband, a step-parent adoption. We have been married 8 years, known each other 10.5 years, and so when we meet people and introduce our kids, first question is almost always, how long have you been married. (shocked expressions). Then, the follow up- How old is Kate? She is sometimes there, sometimes not, but it is always awkward. She is, without a doubt, DHs child, DNA or not.

The adoption issue is complex, but seriously, with all the family issues that are out there these days, steps, half siblings, etc., etc., I think in time the adoption stigma, that is what it is, will be gone. Call it the breakdown of the traditional family if you want, but it is what it is. Most of Kate's classmates have a mom and a dad, and a step and a live in, and a few half siblings and a few step siblings. Not even exaggerating, and we live in a really good school district.

I hope that what she takes away from it is that she was chosen, b/c adoption to me is about being chosen by someone, not being rejected by others. It seems that people in general want to know more about the rejection aspect, though.

[GrayMatterWife]

oh- tangental thought to my hijack- there are actually states that make you state whether your adopted children or grandchildren should be treated as if they were your own.

Texas is one and I went ballistic in the JAG office about how patently offensive it is. (I actually went ballistic in front of a Colonel much to the dismay of my not even close to Colonel husband about exactly how would one demonstrate own vs not own...)

Jenn

I've modifed my original post, because I bounced onto WestLaw and realized that my original post was misleading (unintentionally so).

Let me re-state: under Texas law, adopted and natural children share all the same inheritance rights when the parent dies INTESTATE (without a will). However, wills specify "all my children, natural and adopted" to be clear, because (apparently), historically there was some issue regarding intent to include adopted children if the will does not so specify.

Yes, it's insulting. But (and I know this is not particularly comforting in the face of the suggestion that you might not want your child to be your inheritor), the Army probably was trying to protect your child under Texas law by making the inquiry. I take it you were completing some sort of form related to who would get your DH's life insurance should you and he die simultaneously?

[DCJenn]

Actually, the wills and stuff were done prior to his deployment- mine has been sitting in the JAG office since January- who has time at noon on a Friday to go hang out with JAG lawyers?

It was about who was going to get what, etc. Rick told me I was mean because I didn't want Nikolai to get anything until he was 25 or older.

Jenn

[GrayMatterWife]

Actually, the wills and stuff were done prior to his deployment- mine has been sitting in the JAG office since January- who has time at noon on a Friday to go hang out with JAG lawyers?

It was about who was going to get what, etc. Rick told me I was mean because I didn't want Nikolai to get anything until he was 25 or older.

Jenn

For whatever it's worth, our estate is set up so that if DH and I die simultaneously, the trust set up for DS is controlled by a third-party until he is 25. as well. In the interim, the third-party would distribute the interest (and, if necessary) the res of the trust for DS's health, education and welfare.

[peggyfromwastate]

What was this post about?

[Rapunzel]

My mother's stepfather raised her as his own from the time she was about three years old. She was never close to her biological father - who chose to remain distant from her.

She always, always referred to her stepfather as "Daddy" or "my dad". And, I only ever called him "Granddaddy". To this day when I think of my grandfather it is he who comes immediately to mind.

I do not share his DNA but he is my grandfather more than any other man that has lived on this earth. He helped raise me, he loved me, he shared his life with me. And, THAT is what makes him my grandfather. He raised my mother, taught her to be the person she is today, supported her, loved her and her mother unconditionally. And, THAT Is what makes him her "real" father. And, she always considers him her real father. Because the man who shares her DNA might as well be almost a stranger to her.

I agree with whoever has pointed out that family relationships are not about DNA as much as they are about responsibility, love, forgiveness, and hard work. If you don't put the work into the family relationship then I don't know that you have any right to claim that relationship - other than legally.

My mother's biological father never allowed my real grandfather - my "stepgrandfather" - to adopt my mother. It was completely out of spite as he honestly had no real relationship with my mother at all. It doesn't matter. My son has my real grandfather's middle name as his own middle name. And, my son, upon seeing a picture of my real grandfather (who was deceased years before his birth) stated that he thought he had met him before. My mother truly believes he has. And, I think I do as well. My son actually looks like my "stepgrandfather" in many ways as well - including the piercing blue eyes with this amused glint in them.

Anyway, that's my experience with adoption (well, it never legally happened - but it didn't have to since we know who raised my mother and who was there for me as my grandfather). I have a hard time using the term "step grandfather" as well. To me he is always my granddaddy.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Stop Setting Alarms on My Biological Clock

Back on topic (good grief, this thread is long btw):

By Carrie Friedman
Newsweek
July 23, 2007 issue - I am at a party chatting with a woman I know slightly. As her young son squirms out of her embrace, she slips her hand under my shirt. She's not getting fresh with me. She's touching my tummy with her cold hand and asking me, in a concerned voice, "Why aren't you pregnant yet?" I smile, break free from her touch, and head to the food table to fill said empty belly with her brat's birthday cake.

Yes - creepy.

Grown woman putting her hand under a NON PREGNANT woman's clothing to touch her belly? Just waaaay overstepping boundaries.

And, the "Why aren't you pregnant yet?" comment is also waaaay overstepping boundaries.

Sounds like the author had a bad encounter with a social retard. (How's that for judging, Tara? ).

I love children and definitely plan on having them. Maternal instinct is oozing out of my pores: I've infantilized my dogs; I've gotten down on my hands and knees at the park with babies I barely know. My marriage is wonderful and solid, and we are both blessed with good health. I've been a nanny, a teacher, a youth-group leader. I've taken childhood-development courses solely for the purpose of someday raising happy, balanced children. I have always looked forward to becoming a mother.

She sounds a bit obsessed with children, actually.

So why don't I have kids or even the inkling right now? It's because of you. Yes, you: the fanatical mothers of the world. It may seem like ages ago now, but you weren't always like this. You, too, were sneering at the obnoxious parents who brought their infants to fancy, adult, nighttime restaurants or R-rated movies and let them carry on, ruining things for other patrons. You've been terrible advertising for the club that you so desperately need others to join.

Methinks the authoress doth protest too much. She's pretty much obsessed with children and having them - but she won't have children right now and is "blaming" other mothers for her decision.

I completely refuse to believe that the *only* mothers this woman has encountered (particularly in her interactions with what must be hundreds of children from her description of her life) are these "fanatics" who have "been terrible at advertising for the club."

Exaggerate much? Hmmmm?

If you want me to join your ranks—and you've made it clear with your cold, clammy hands on my stomach that recruiting my uterus is of paramount importance to you—I need to set some ground rules.

Hey, Lady! Don't group me and millions of other women in with creepy belly-toucher! She's not our spokeswoman!

First, please stop asking me when I'm going to get pregnant.

For all you know, I cannot have kids. For all I know, I cannot have kids, as I have not yet tried. But imagine how painful this line of interrogation would be if I had submitted to all kinds of procedures, only to come up empty-wombed. It would be emotionally devastating. Yet ever since the day after my wedding two years ago, I have fielded this question from the eye doctor, the dental assistant, my yoga teacher, the bagger at the grocery store. All of them feel entitled to ask. Don't. It's none of your business.

First reasonable thing the woman has written.

Next, don't completely abandon your own life and passions. You're setting a bad example for aspiring mothers-to-be like me.

This is reasonable as well - but don't assume that motherhood automatically means abandoning your passions. Motherhood is what YOU make of it and you cannot judge what your experience will be like based upon another's experience with this part of life.

I recently expressed my happiness over an achievement I had at work to a mother-friend of mine. She said, dripping with condescension, "Well, you don't know happiness until you've had a baby."

This sounds like a very competitive woman - or one who was tired of working, non-mothers seemingly "lording" their career accomplishments over her, the lowly "mother". I think this could have gone either way and it very well may have been the author who was truly the obnoxious one receiving a well-deserved come-back. Two sides to every story.

That's very possible, but don't rain on my parade, as I've never said to you, "Remind me, when you went to that expensive college you majored in diaper-rash prevention, right?"

Perhaps the author was raining on the mother's parade? It's quite possible that the author's attitude towards the mother in question HAS communicated, "Remind me, when you went to that expensive college you majored in diaper-rash prevention, right?" The fact that the author uses that as her written response makes me suspect that this is, in fact, the author's true attitude. In which case, I sympathize with the mother and the author is just really a crabby, bitter person.

I happen to love my job. It fulfills me in ways no other person—even a child—could. I learned through my own mother's example that the best lesson you can teach your kids is to pursue their passions. It's not selfish to have your own life. In fact, it's selfish not to.

1) Defensive - unnecessarily so from what she has recounted so far in this essay. Her response to motherhood and mothers in general appears to be based upon very few bad interactions. Disproportionate, iow.

2)I completely agree that a person who loves their career more than they would like to have a child should never ever have a child. Having a child requires one to disconnect from self-absorption. Simple fact. And, if one recognizes that they cannot or do not want to disconnect from that self-absorption then they are doing their potential children a favor.

Now let's talk a bit about manners, as in please teach your children some. The world has rules, and kids should learn them. And being well mannered does not infringe on their individuality and freedom.

Completely agree with this.

I crouched to meet the eye line of an acquaintance's 4-year-old to greet her, and in response, she punched me in the face so hard my mouth bled. What was more baffling was the mother's reaction: nothing to the child, but to me she said very sternly: "You really shouldn't talk down to kids."

I also shouldn't be punched in the face by kids whose parents don't know how to set basic boundaries. Experiences like this don't exactly encourage me to hurry up and get pregnant.

1) No, the child should not be allowed to harm any person - adult OR child - unless it is in order to escape a dangerous situation.

2) It is quite possible the mother was correct and the author was being rude and obnoxious to the child. The author leaves out all other details - including what she said to the child. Convenient. It is possible that this author has not yet learned proper manners herself.

Finally, don't make your kid an extension of your own narcissism.

No one could possibly love your kids as much as you do, so stop inflicting them on others. Don't bring your kid to adult parties when you're not sure if it's kid-friendly. If they didn't invite your kid, they don't want your kid there. If you don't want to get a babysitter, stay home.

I completely agree that our society is becoming progressively more UNchild-friendly. It's another symptom of the breakdown of the importance of the family in our society.

I often wonder if people who despise children this much (although, strangely have an obsession with them as well - hmmmm.... issues?) remember that THEY were once children themselves. In fact, you cannot be an adult in this world unless you were a child first. I wonder how much of this rant is actually a reflection of the author's dislike of or reaction to her own childhood? Did she like herself as a child? Can she empathize at all with children - having been one for quite awhile herself? Rather, her tone seems to be that children are another species - pets to "acquire" and "train".

I can definitely see now why she keeps getting these negative responses - from mothers and children alike - in her life. If she learned to be the way she wants everyone else to be she'd probably be treated as she desires to be treated. Simple golden rule working both forward and backward....

My husband thinks some people, particularly mothers, behave in these ways because it helps them validate their own choices. But he doesn't truly understand how infuriating it is, and that's because nobody badgers men with questions about procreation.

Oddly enough, this entire article is about the author attempting to validate her choice. I don't think she realizes how infuriating SHE is coming across. She's skipping all over the place blaming everyone for the seeming slights of a few, hinting at her own rudeness as she screams about others' incorrect behavior, and attempting to foist her decision not to have children on the backs of all mothers everywhere.

How much does she pay her therapist because he needs a raise!

[PrincessFiona]

:stars: Jenn is back in the debate forum.

And I totally agree with everything that you said.



Kris

[Meenah]

Me too!!

[MissCrabette]

what Jenn said.

[Meenah]

Off topic, Jenn, how are you feeling?

[Rapunzel]

Hmmm.... Give me about 24 hours and I'll put up a post on my blog. I guess I've been kind of semi-absent for awhile....

Thank you for asking, Luanne! It's nice to be thought/cared about!