Announcement

Collapse

Facebook Forum Migration

Our forums have migrated to Facebook. If you are already an iMSN forum member you will be grandfathered in.

To access the Call Room and Marriage Matters, head to: https://m.facebook.com/groups/400932...eferrer=search

You can find the health and fitness forums here: https://m.facebook.com/groups/133538...eferrer=search

Private parenting discussions are here: https://m.facebook.com/groups/382903...eferrer=search

We look forward to seeing you on Facebook!
See more
See less

vick-dog fighting

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • vick-dog fighting

    i have been following the Vick story. sick mofo. im glad a "celebrity" has brought this more attention. sometimes i cant help myself and i watch animal cops on the animal planet channel. so sad.
    By Steve Tuttle
    Newsweek
    Updated: 5:47 p.m. ET July 18, 2007
    July 18, 2007 - Minnie, a brown pit bull-boxer mix with white feet, was tied to a tree when she was a puppy and repeatedly attacked by other dogs as part of a dogfight-training exercise in Louisville, Ky. She was rescued after her abusers fled and left her for dead, her torn flesh riddled with infections. Today, a year and a half later, Minnie has a huge saddle-shaped scar under the fur on her back, and she’s terrified of tall men and large dogs. Her adoptive parents, Megan and Greg Crabb, spent weeks nursing her back to health. “I cried every time I had to clean her,” Megan recounted to NEWSWEEK. “She was covered in deep bite marks.”

    Most fighting dogs aren’t so lucky. If they don’t die of injuries suffered in the ring or get killed by their owners, they’re often euthanized by local authorities because they’re considered too dangerous to re-enter society. The ones that do survive breed more fighting dogs, and their puppies enter an ugly world where survival of the fittest is not just a cliché.


    This week’s federal indictment of NFL superstar Michael Vick, complete with stomach-turning allegations, has brought this blood sport to the front pages, but it’s really nothing new: organized fighting has been around as long as domesticated dogs. (Vick, who has not pled in the case, is scheduled to appear in court on July 26.) Dog fighting is illegal in all 50 states and a felony in every one but Idaho and Wyoming, but no federal agency tracks national arrest figures. Animal advocacy groups and law enforcement gauge its popularity through media reports and court filings, Web activity, the number of publications—like “Match Night” and “Sporting Dog Journal”—and the simple fact that many urban dog shelters are flooded with pit bulls, by far the most popular fighting breed. According to Mark Kumpf, a member of the National Illegal Animal Fighting Task Force, dogfighting is increasing nationwide. “It’s a multibillion-dollar industry,” Kumpf says, “and it’s partly because it’s glamorized in the entertainment industry in hip-hop, rap, and professional sports.”

    In 2006, pet-abuse.com found 122 suspected dogfighting cases nationwide (114 with pit bulls), but that number only represents a fraction of cases. Many police departments don’t report dogfighting, and many cities don’t announce that they have confiscated dogs because owners have been known to break in and steal them back. Wayne Pacelle, president of the Humane Society of the United States, says at least 40,000 people are actively involved in the industry, not including spectators. He calls it the modern day equivalent of the fights in the Roman Colosseum: “It comes from the same dark place in the human spirit.”

    One reason it’s growing is because modern technology makes it easy to engage in. Anyone so inclined can log on to Amazon.com and pick up the book “Dogs of Velvet and Steel,” which critics say offers guidance for dogfighting trainers. It’s out of print and highly coveted so a used copy could set you back as much as $1,800. Or you can purchase a copy of “The Dog Pit” at BarnesandNoble.com, a reprint of an 1888 book that explains “How to Breed and Train Fighting Dogs.” There are Web sites with information on fighting strategies and on how to avoid law enforcement, as well as underground videos and DVDs that get passed around by participants.

    Pit bull fans howl at the assumption that every pit bull is trained to fight and argue that authorities should “punish the deed, not the breed.” But many pit aficionados like the hard reputation of the dogs. Professional boxer Roy Jones Jr. says he does not enter the pit bulls he owns in fights, but likes studying their moves. “I like the nature of the dogs and how they are cool and calm until you mess with them,” he says. Antwan Patton, a.k.a “Big Boi” of the popular group Outkast, raises pit bulls at Pitfall Kennel in Fayetteville, Ga. “They’re the best dogs because they’re loyal to a fault. I would never hurt one,” he says. His kennel’s Web site makes it clear that “no dogs will be sold for illegal or cruel purposes.”

    Erin Patton (no relation) a sports marketing executive who’s worked with many prominent athletes, says African-American men, in particular those growing up in lower-income areas, have always owned pit bulls to deter violence. “In the hood you can’t always afford a Brinks security system … but a pit bull served the same purpose.”

    Even though the brightest media focus is on prominent athletes like Vick, it’s wrong to generalize from the specific. Old dogfighting lithographs show gentlemen dressed in their Sunday best, but today it could just as easily be the country guy down South as the gangster wannabe in the big city. Street fighting can involve many types of breeds and is much less ritualized than the so-called professional game, whose boosters look down their noses at the unorganized brawls.

    For a behind-the-scenes look inside the ritualized pro world, NEWSWEEK interviewed “Fat Dog,” 45, who didn’t want to use his real name because dogfighting is illegal. He raises pit bulls in the low country near Savannah, Ga., and says he can trace his dogs’ fighting bloodlines back to the 1800s. “I have attended about 50 professional matches in my life, and I have only seen two or three dogs die. They have every opportunity to quit just like a boxer does,” he says. He claims that “90 percent” of dogfight matches don’t end in death because of the money invested: “If you lose a good dog, that’s $3,500 and then the litter you won’t have.”

    The last match Fat Dog attended was in Sleepy Hollow, N.C., and there were only about 20 people there. The structure was built just for dogfighting, complete with bleachers and a concession stand. Modeled after boxing, there were three matches with timed rounds, an under-card and the big stars in the finale.

    Leading up to the battle the dogs spend about six weeks in “the keep,” or training period, according to police who have investigated dogfighting. Owners use expensive treadmills to get the dogs in fighting trim, and some use the carrot and stick approach—the carrot being a live cat suspended in front of the dog to keep it running.

    After the bets are made, the fight takes place in a walled ring with a dirt or carpet floor. “Face your dogs!” is called out and the handlers wait to hear “Release!” The battle is on until one dog fails to cross the “scratch” line or is injured too severely to continue. Broken limbs are common.

    If the dogs lock up, their jaws are pried open by a ”break stick.” Sometimes a dog will “fang” itself, or bite through its own upper lip. The handler will stick a pencil in the dog’s mouth and stick it under the lip to free the tooth, Fat Dog says.

    An average fight lasts less than 45 minutes, and fighters agree ahead of time to a specific weight and sex of the competitors. Because both males and females are trained to fight, breeding can be tricky. Some dog owners use what is called a “rape box” to secure the female, which essentially means tying her to a barrel until the male has mated.

    Despite his past association with fighting, Fat Dog says he hopes it will eventually end. “I don’t like the bad name it gives pit bulls—if you’re an owner you might as well live with Satan or be a child molester.”

    With Allison Samuels
    ~shacked up with an ob/gyn~

  • #2
    Originally posted by *Lily*
    I think dog fighters and fight dog breeders should be thrown in a cage and beaten with sticks. To me they're sociopaths and as low as child molesters. Rot in Hell, Vick. Too bad, too - you started out looking like you would be a star.

    I truly do wish the very worst for Michael Vick and everyone else involved in animal abuse.
    ITA.

    The whole story makes me sick.

    IT IS SOOOOOOOOOO WRONG.
    Flynn

    Wife to post training CT surgeon; mother of three kids ages 17, 15, and 11.

    “It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.” —Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets " Albus Dumbledore

    Comment


    • #3
      ITA and I think the NFL is ignoring it at this point which pisses me off. The new commissioner has this supposed "no tolerance" policy and he's suspended players for DWI and a fight at a strip club but he's not suspending Vick?

      It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that Vick is a highly paid QB, could it?
      Wife to NSG out of training, mom to 2, 10 & 8, and a beagle with wings.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Suzy Sunshine
        ITA and I think the NFL is ignoring it at this point which pisses me off. The new commissioner has this supposed "no tolerance" policy and he's suspended players for DWI and a fight at a strip club but he's not suspending Vick?

        It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that Vick is a highly paid QB, could it?
        I think they all should be suspended without pay for at least a year AND there should be legal consequenses as well.

        This is just SO WRONG.
        Flynn

        Wife to post training CT surgeon; mother of three kids ages 17, 15, and 11.

        “It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.” —Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets " Albus Dumbledore

        Comment


        • #5
          Have they proven yet that he was a part of the dog fighting or they still in the process of finding out the truth.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DrWahoo
            Have they proven yet that he was a part of the dog fighting or they still in the process of finding out the truth.
            He has been indicted, his first court appearance is next week, however everything I've read says that the feds don't file charges unless they're very sure they can win.

            I know innocent until proven guilty but my understanding with one of the other football players (strip club incident) is that he was suspended before he was convicted or tried.
            Wife to NSG out of training, mom to 2, 10 & 8, and a beagle with wings.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by *Lily*
              I think dog fighters and fight dog breeders should be thrown in a cage and beaten with sticks. To me they're sociopaths and as low as child molesters.
              ITA! Go ahead and throw the puppy mill breeders in there with them too! Animal abuse makes me so angry!!!
              I really hope PETA and ASPCA really put the pressure on the NFL to take some real action against Vick for his involvement in this.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sad, sick, sadistic.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This is terrible, but you need to let the legal system play out first. Don't want another Duke Lacrosse incident. The cops/prosecutors make mistakes all the time. I see it daily. I know Mike is in deep trouble and if proven guilty, he should rot in prison for these atrocities.

                  As I like to remind juries during selection, remember Richard Jewell? He is the guy that the feds pinned the Atlanta Games bombing on...only he wasn't guilty. All he got was an apology a day late and a dollar short. Basically ruined his life.
                  Husband of an amazing female physician!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ATLANTA (AP) -- Michael Vick's legal troubles prompted Nike on Thursday to suspend the release of its latest product line named after the Atlanta Falcons quarterback.

                    Nike has told retailers it will not release a fifth signature shoe, the Air Zoom Vick V, this summer. Nike spokesman Dean Stoyer said the four shoe products and three shirts that currently bear Vick's name will remain in stores.

                    Vick will be arraigned next week in a Richmond, Va., federal courtroom on charges of sponsoring a gruesome dogfighting operation.

                    Meanwhile, Falcons owner Arthur Blank issued a statement Thursday, saying the organization is "working diligently on exploring our options."

                    "This is an emotionally charged and complicated matter," Blank said. "There are a wide range of interests and legal issues that need to be carefully considered as we move ahead, including our need to respect the due process that Michael is entitled to. Also, this situation affects everyone -- our club, our players and associates, our sponsors, our fans and the Atlanta community among them -- so we must consider all of our customers in making any decisions.

                    "Given the differing perspectives and strong feelings around this issue, we probably won't make everyone happy, but we are committed to doing the right thing. As the owner of this club that's, ultimately, my responsibility."

                    Blank added that he was "saddened and distressed about this -- not for myself, for our fans and community who have been so loyal to us."

                    ESPN reported that Vick had called Blank on Wednesday. The network said its sources believed Vick to have been contrite, and he apologized for the distractions the case has created, and thanked Blank for his support.

                    Stoyer said Nike still has a standing contract with Vick, but declined to speculate on his future with the company.

                    A statement released by Nike Inc. said the company "is concerned by the serious and highly disturbing allegations made against Michael Vick, and we consider any cruelty to animals inhumane and abhorrent. We do believe that Michael Vick should be afforded the same due process as any citizen; therefore, we have not terminated our relationship."

                    Stoyer, who declined to discuss terms of Vick's contract, indicated the company has no commercials or documentaries planned with the three-time NFL Pro Bowl selection.

                    In previous years, Nike has run footage and interviews with Vick on its Web site, but none of the video promotions are currently posted.

                    "Some of that was shown on a limited run based on rights and usage," Stoyer said. "There's nothing new planned."

                    The Humane Society of the United States issued a statement calling upon Nike to pull its Vick clothing and shoes from retailers and from its web site. It also called upon NFL commissioner Roger Goodell to suspend Vick.

                    Vick signed his current contract with Nike in 2001, the same year Atlanta chose him as the NFL's No. 1 overall draft pick. After leading the Falcons to the 2002 and '04 playoffs, Vick last year became the first quarterback in league history to rush for 1,000 yards in a season.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I also think it sets a bad precedent for the NFL to take the wait and see approach. Even though it is only one crime, what he has done is a little worse than anything Packman Jones did (although he fully deserves every second of his season-long suspension). By not at least suspending Vick for a few games it does make it look like the super star is getting special treatment. There is virtually no doubt Vick at least knew what was going on, which right there warrants a suspension of some sort. It was his house, there is no denying that. But that indictment is down right sickening, and as it was mentioned earlier, the feds don't indict unless they have something pretty solid.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Did anyone else except me the C-Span dolt catch poor Sen Byrd about this? I mean Byrd can be a jerk (although I love him) but the poor guy was weeping about this!

                        Jenn

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DCJenn
                          Did anyone else except me the C-Span dolt catch poor Sen Byrd about this? I mean Byrd can be a jerk (although I love him) but the poor guy was weeping about this!

                          Jenn
                          I think Sen. Byrd may have a soft spot for animals. A couple of years back, he made a speech on the Senate floor, condemning the purported lax compliance with federal anti-animal cruelty provisions related to meat processing. I don't remember it that well, but I don't recall it being a super-lefty, animals-are-people-too type of speech. He recalled his own days growing up on a farm with hogs, and talked about how hogs can be humanely slaughtered. And then contrasted that with how there are beef processing plants today that do all sorts of atrocious things to cows during the slaughter process.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            bolding mine. class act, for sure.
                            Vick's dog days are just beginning
                            Kevin Hench
                            FOXSports.com, Updated 9 hours ago STORY TOOLS:

                            Like so many of Michael Vick's third-down conversion attempts, his legal defense against dogfighting charges ended Monday with a punt.

                            By the time all his so-called friends were done flipping, it was 4th-and-38. Even the elusive Vick had to realize there was no scrambling out of this one. (The prosecution doesn't view him as a flight risk because he has no friends left to drive the white Bronco.)
                            The fact that Vick's friends flipped so readily has led some of his defenders to decry the lack of loyalty in the Vick posse. Hey, here's a heads up: if your friends enjoy watching dogs tear each other apart, they might not turn out to be the highest character guys when you need them to have your back.

                            And those, like Donovan McNabb and Emmitt Smith, who were quick to condemn Vick's associates should bear in mind that Vick certainly seemed prepared to throw his entire posse under the bus to "clear his good name." But plea deals don't go from the top down. A drug kingpin can't get a lesser sentence by rolling on his street peddlers. Vick financed the operation. He was the big fish.

                            While the guilty plea will cost Vick his freedom for a to-be-determined length of time, it has liberated those of us writing about the case from the annoying and clunky and increasingly insulting use of "allegedly."

                            And thus concludes this chapter of the long, sad saga of a bad guy who was worse than we thought.

                            When Vick settled a civil lawsuit brought by a woman who said he'd knowingly given her herpes (and that he'd entered clinics for treatment under the alias Ron Mexico), it spawned a lot of jokes and a jersey-purchasing frenzy.

                            When Vick flipped off the fans in Atlanta, he joined a long line of frustrated athletes who had responded to the boo birds with the dirty digit.

                            When he refused to hand over a water bottle at the airport in Miami and the bottle was later determined to have a secret stash for contraband in it, it seemed more stupid than dangerous.

                            But breeding dogs for the sick satisfaction of watching them fight and then executing the underperformers? This is the back story of a serial killer, not a mere coach killer.

                            From the very first day this story broke, it seemed impossible to imagine any other outcome. Vick bred dogs. He owned the property where dogfighting had clearly taken place. He wasn't breeding these poor creatures for the Westminster Dog Show.

                            Perhaps realizing he would be unable to answer the prosecution's first question — "Why, sir, did you breed dogs?" — Vick copped.

                            The guilty plea raises several questions: 1. Why not go to trial? 2. What is an appropriate punishment? 3. Will he ever play in the NFL again?

                            Could Vick have won at trial?

                            Well, clearly his attorneys didn't think so. The fact that his defense team — the ones with the most to gain financially by a protracted trial — recommended that Vick accept a plea speaks volumes about his overwhelming guilt. His lawyers must have felt completely incapable of mounting a credible defense.

                            A guilty defendant knows he can't rely on exculpatory evidence for acquittal, but surely someone as rich as Vick could assemble a legal dream team to muddle the prosecution's case and confuse a jury.

                            Couldn't Robert Shapiro, F. Lee Bailey, Barry Scheck and Alan Dershowitz convince any 12 people who couldn't get out of jury duty that these dogs had committed suicide?

                            Possibly. But this trial promised to feature one thing the O.J. Simpson case lacked: damning eyewitness testimony.

                            Imagine if Al Cowlings and Robert Kardashian and five others were lined up to provide testimony against O.J., and you get a sense of what the Vick defense team would have been up against.

                            But given that leniency doesn't seem to be a component of the prosecution's plea offer, what did Vick have to lose by throwing the Hail Mary and going to trial? He would have had to sit there and endure in painstaking detail — and gruesome photos, one of which he may have been in — the carnage of Bad Newz Kennels.

                            Though it seems impossible that he'll ever salvage his career or reputation, a blow-by-blow public accounting of his behavior could only have made things worse.

                            Will the sentence fit the crime?


                            Michael Vick agreed Monday to plead guilty to federal dogfighting conspiracy charges. (Jonathan Ernst / Getty Images)

                            Reports have varied as to what the prosecution will ask for in terms of jail time — anywhere from 12 to 36 months — but one thing seems clear: Vick will be punished more severely than anyone who has ever been convicted of these crimes.

                            Vick can say goodbye to much — if not all — of the remaining money on the 10-year, $130M contract he signed in 2004, and the Falcons may try to recover some of the $22M already paid Vick as part of his signing bonus. It's safe to say that Arthur Blank believes Vick has violated the personal-conduct clause of his contract. It seems doubtful that, once Vick formalizes his plea next week, the Falcons will ever pay him another penny.

                            Given the loss of endorsements, Vick will likely lose over $100M as a result of his crimes. Major American corporations don't get hit with fines like that for even the most egregious violations.

                            Vick's crimes were not committed in the heat of the moment. He didn't snap. He didn't do too much meth or lose his mind with jealously. He matter-of-factly bred dogs to be used for his entertainment in a bloodsport.

                            A couple years in jail and all his net worth sounds about right to me.

                            Will Vick ever play in the NFL again?

                            No. How could he?

                            Even if the gambling aspect of the dogfighting ring does not earn Vick a lifetime ban, there just don't seem to be any circumstances that could lead him back under center in the NFL.

                            He's simply not a good enough quarterback to merit the s---storm signing him would unleash. What owner would invite the public backlash to acquire a QB with a 75.7 career rating?

                            Terrell Owens is an elite receiver. Jerry Jones deemed him worth the headache. Pacman Jones has the tools to be a shutdown corner. As long as he's not in prison or suspended, someone will give him a job. But in six seasons in the NFL, Michael Vick has thrown 71 touchdown passes and turned the ball over 79 times (52 picks, 27 lost fumbles).

                            Before all hell broke loose, there were a lot of NFL fans who thought the Falcons made a mistake in sending Matt Schaub to Houston. Vick was already a borderline starting NFL quarterback. Now he's radioactive.

                            When Vick submits to his plea deal next Monday, the judge is not obligated to accept the terms. He could instead opt for a harsher sentence.

                            Vick will want mercy from the judge. Which is more than Vick gave those dogs
                            ~shacked up with an ob/gyn~

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yeah, thank God. I hope Vick rots in Hell. He is a disgusting excuse for a human being. If he ever shows up in the NFL again, the signing team better prepare themselves for a LOT of hate mail...from me.

                              Before all hell broke loose, there were a lot of NFL fans who thought the Falcons made a mistake in sending Matt Schaub to Houston.
                              I knew Matt Schaub in college - really great guy. Wahoowa.

                              Poor Virginia Tech has not been looked highly upon this year - murderers and dog killers. Ugh.

                              I would write more about this, but I don't think anyone is really gonna back him up or anything. Let's just say that if he reached a sudden painful death, I wouldn't exactly feel too badly about it.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X