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Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

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  • Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

    New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg defends his new program — a new inititative launched today — to pay low-income families to take better care of their children and their health.

    The social experiment, known as Opportunity NYC, modeled on plans designed to break the cycle of poverty in developing countries, was spearheaded by the billionaire mayor, who is using $50 million in private funding.

    The program offers 5,000 low-income families payments if they get more involved in their kids' education and health care.

    "Some people look at this and say, 'Whoa, you're paying people to do what they should be doing, anyway," ABC's Dan Harris told Bloomberg.

    "Absolutely," he responded. "Now, what's the question? Your statement of fact is correct, but that doesn't make it wrong. What is clear is these people aren't doing what we'd like them to do. And so, if the only way you can get them to do it is by paying them, is that better or worse than not having them do it at all?"

    What's your response? Join the debate and post comments in the right side of this page.

    $200 for a Doctor's Visit

    As the program began today, New York resident Gertheal Davis opened a bank account and received $50. If she reviews her sons' test results, she'll get $25 and if she takes her sons to the doctor, she'll be given $200 per child. Click here to see the schedule of payments:

    Davis said she's engaged in her childrens' education and health, anyway, but she knows some parents are not.

    "Sometimes, people do need some type of encouragement. And so maybe this will [be] something that will wake 'em up," Davis said.

    But, it may, in fact, make things worse, say social policy experts. They say these cash incentives will warp the values and destroy the moral sense of the recipients.

    "It's wrong to teach a parent that the reason that he or she follows his child's education is because it will provide an immediate payoff of 25 or 50 bucks. He should do that because it's in his child's interest," said Heather MacDonald at the Manhattan Institute, a conservative think tank.

    In response, Bloomberg said the government pays people and businesses to do things all the time, as with tax breaks to encourage home ownership or a college education.

    "The incentives of using capitalism have worked at other levels, and nobody complains about that. Why not use those incentives to do the same thing here?" Bloomberg asked.

    But not even the mayor guarantees success. "If you go in and only do the things that you're sure will work, you will never do anything," said Bloomberg.

    And Bloomberg said it's shame on us as a society if we don't try, given that poverty persists in the United States, the wealthiest nation on the planet.
    ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
    ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

  • #2
    Re: Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

    Very, very interesting. I'll have to think about this and come back to respond. Hmm.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

      Wow.

      How many awesome, low-income parents are really insulted? (If you don't have a lot of money, you must be a bad parent...and we assume that you would be willing to be a good parent if we would just pay you... How completely classist is THAT presumption? The solution to crappy parenting would be to turn the activity into a commodity.)

      How many awesome, high-income parents are really insulted? (Their financial status has a bearing on what quality of parent they are?)

      And...how many of the medical students/spouses on this website would qualify for the program, I wonder. I knew MANY medical student families that were WIC-benefits eligible. But, since you clearly are not as likely to be decent parents, thank god the government will ensure loving parenting by paying you to do it.

      Makes my skin crawl.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

        We essentially pay our pregnant ladies to get and stay on methadone up to 30 days after delivery because it's better for everyone if they're not prostituting on the streets and/or buying street methadone. We 'pay' them by not charging them.

        And we're batting around the idea of seeing about getting a grant to pay them 100 bucks a month to not get pregnant. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than once a year babies in the NICUs. (our tax dollars hard at work because these are medicaid babies)

        It would give them income, they'd stay on methadone until they were detoxed, it would give the constant crisis mode of repeated pregnancies, CPS removing the children straight from the NICU, the high dollar cost of foster families, etc.

        I have no problem w/ paying people to do this because the cycle of poverty/drugs/homelessness/dropping out of school just doesn't stop. You can't just treat 'one' symptom, you have to treat the whole problem but you can't even start when you're constantly in crisis.

        Jenn

        PS- and before our conservatives slam me for the high costs and the liberal accuse me of being elitest and the libertarians accuse me of inventing more government...

        ONE of these babies costs the system on average one million dollars (in today's dollars) through age 18.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

          If I were poor, I'd look past the obvious "isms" here and just accept the checks as more money I needed coming in.

          I don't know that it will help, but, money is a motivator.
          Heidi, PA-S1 - wife to an orthopaedic surgeon, mom to Ryan, 17, and Alexia, 11.


          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

            Gut reaction: It really is pathetic that parents would have to be paid by a government to care about their own children. There is a part of me that is saying, "No WONDER these people stay in a cycle of abuse, drug abuse and poverty - they are so short-sighted, greedy and just plain 'warped' that they cannot comprehend the importance of loving their own children or helping them succeed." Yes, perhaps there is a bit of Social Darwinism in that statement - but, seriously, it's like paying people to stay out of prison. It's one of those "Duh" moments where you cannot understand how people like that remember to breath.

            On the other hand: Heidi is right. When we were back in the days of dh's medical student-hood we definitely qualified for WIC and other government programs - we'd probably easily qualify financially for this one as well. And, I'd willingly take the money if we were hurting badly enough. You can't afford to be insulted when you need to feed your kids.

            My conclusion is that this program will help those who already were doing what they were supposed to with their children and just financially qualify for the program. These are the parents, however, that I suspect would be raising children to succeed later in life anyway - the ones that would be raising the next generation to have it easier than THEY (the parents) had it. I think that, just as has been done with every government hand-out program, the ones that just want the cash and wouldn't be parenting anyway will find a way to play the system, get the money, and not actually "parent" as the program is designed to motivate them to do.
            Who uses a machete to cut through red tape
            With fingernails that shine like justice
            And a voice that is dark like tinted glass

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

              My gut reaction is just that it is a bad idea. Basically, people that work hard and do the best that they can with the tough job of raising their children can put their hard earned money into the pockets of those who don't as an "incentive". That's just one place that I don't want my tax dollars to go. I'd rather put the money towards a good fostercare placement, tbh.

              When the world changes enough that I get to be paid for taking good care of my kids then I will think about it. Seriously...If Bloomberg stepped in and said..all sahm's will have the benefit of having money paid into their social security accounts during the period of their *employment* as a mom....and will not lose these years to child-rearing....then I'd reconsider my stance. As it is, my choice to stay at home has meant that I don't qualify for disability and my social security payments (if I get them when I'm old) will be bupkis if I get divorced.

              Originally posted by DCJenn
              And we're batting around the idea of seeing about getting a grant to pay them 100 bucks a month to not get pregnant. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than once a year babies in the NICUs. (our tax dollars hard at work because these are medicaid babies)

              ONE of these babies costs the system on average one million dollars (in today's dollars) through age 18.
              I wonder what the one time cost of sterilizing them would be. That is my solution. Give them the norplant or whatever until they get their shit together. That's got to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and I am a liberal.
              ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
              ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

                I'm not against it. How's that for a strong position? :> I was one of those kids that got paid for every "A" on a report card -- and by golly, I got straight A's all the way through school and in college as well. I never understood all the psychobabble that it was counterproductive and would destroy a kid's internal drive. So -- I suppose I'm thinking the same thing might happen here. You start a good habit for the wrong reasons, but it continues even when the incentive disappears.

                As for insulting poor people as bad parents, that may happen in some quarters. I'd still be happy for the help if I was already doing these things - and if I wasn't doing them because the doctor's visit was cost prohibitive, that $200 bucks would help offset the cost. Heck, some physicians might just start seeing kids for the incentive cost and make this system help with children's healthcare. I know too many people that are poor enough to put off their kid's healthcare for financial reasons, but not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid. That will break a mother's heart before the insult to the parenting does. Maybe it should be touted as a reward program instead of an incentive program - you know? Paying back all those good parents out there who are doing the right thing already.
                Angie
                Gyn-Onc fellowship survivor - 10 years out of the training years; reluctant suburbanite
                Mom to DS (18) and DD (15) (and many many pets)

                "Where are we going - and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

                  Those are good points, Angie. I just think that then we need to reward people who are trying their hardest to do the right thing. Higher income parents that do review their children's tests, are being punished because they aren't being "paid". I have no problem with providing free healthcare for all children (regardless of family income)...and I would throw my tax dollars behind that. I do, however, have a problem with paying a parent a special allowance to take their child to the doctor or something.

                  We do need to take on a little bit of personal responsibility as a society.

                  I love that a breastfeeding med student doesn't deserve a couple of extra breaks for bf, but that a crackhead should be paid not to get pg ... a parent who is otherwise negligent can be paid for reviewing her child's tests etc...

                  sigh.

                  step away from the computer, I know...

                  Where is my asshat avatar?
                  ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
                  ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

                    Originally posted by PrincessFiona

                    Where is my asshat avatar?
                    If you want to wait a minute, I'll do a custom one, but here are some for others to choose from or you, or to use as general pictures or emoticons for us.





                    Heidi, PA-S1 - wife to an orthopaedic surgeon, mom to Ryan, 17, and Alexia, 11.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

                      OM Gosh!! The asshats are AWESOME.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

                        I wonder what the one time cost of sterilizing them would be. That is my solution. Give them the norplant or whatever until they get their shit together. That's got to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and I am a liberal.

                        Wow- Eugenics. Hmmm, I guess it really is trendy all over again.

                        Would you like to cover those costs instead? because medicaid doesn't cover birthcontrol. Ever. and people in drug treatment are usually turned down for TANF.

                        It's a really cakewalk for these people who just want to be out there prostituting and injecting drugs while the pass along Hep B and C and HIV. and I hope everyone here understands that addiction is not exactly a choice. Maybe the first hit is... so WHY would they taking drugs? Well, statistically, they were probably sexually assaulted (about age 12), they were raised by a single drug-abusing mother, they dropped out of highschool after 9th grade. and they're invisible.

                        So- I'm hiring a Case Manager to wade through this morass of crap to help these girls did themselves out of this morass of crap.

                        Anyone here want the job?

                        Jenn

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

                          I didn't mean eugenics...I meant forcing them to be on birth control (I believe I mentioned norplant?) while they are using. and. I have absolutely NO problem with that idea. I shouldn't have used the word sterilize...I meant forced birth control.

                          Hmmm...bring a baby into the world every year that potentially has neurological/behavioral problems before you even get a chance to "break" it more or the child protective services department has to step in and send it to foster care or...require norplant as long as you are using and are on the govt. dole. Seriously...govt. paying for the NICU stay plus disability etc for your child (lots of money) vs govt. paying for norplant. It's a no brainer.

                          They can choose though...either the govt pays for their norplant as long as they are users OR they choose not to get norplant and then the govt. doesn't pay for their methadone etc.

                          I would personally go to your clinic and write our checks for norplant for each of these women myself...but I won't give them a dime to "not get pregnant".

                          I'm a hard ass....

                          I would be your case worker in a heart beat if I lived nearby...but judging from our differences of opinion on the last few topics, you probably wouldn't hire me....or even speak to me :>

                          Have I mentioned lately how much I love you...even if you are wrong? :> No, really...I think you're great..and I'm sorry that we disagree on this.

                          kris
                          ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
                          ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

                            Originally posted by PrincessFiona
                            Hmmm...bring a baby into the world every year that potentially has neurological/behavioral problems before you even get a chance to "break" it more or the child protective services department has to step in and send it to foster care or...require norplant as long as you are using and are on the govt. dole. Seriously...govt. paying for the NICU stay plus disability etc for your child (lots of money) vs govt. paying for norplant. It's a no brainer.

                            They can choose though...either the govt pays for their norplant as long as they are users OR they choose not to get norplant and then the govt. doesn't pay for their methadone etc.
                            It is a no brainer, but like DCJenn stated, the government does not pay for birth control. Isn't it wonderful that the country we live in rather foot the bill for these kids once they're conceived than pay for birth control to prevent their births?

                            Originally posted by DCJenn
                            Would you like to cover those costs instead? because medicaid doesn't cover birthcontrol. Ever. and people in drug treatment are usually turned down for TANF.
                            I can't speak for all states, but last year the MO House approved a birth control funding ban-- banning state funding of contraceptives for low-income women and prohibiting state-funded programs from referring those women to other programs. They approved this ban despite statistics showing a 32% decline in the # pregnancies in this population of women. They stated that it was a inappropriate use of tax dollar money and if dcotors wanted to give contraceptives privately or personally they could but they (as in the state) didn't need to pay for contraception with taxpayer funds.

                            So I agree that it would be more economical and just plain common sense to provide contractives to women but apparently there are people who happen to help run this country who think otherwise.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Mayor Bloomberg: Why not use Cash as an incentive?

                              I think it would be more valuable then to lobby the govt. to pay for birth control than to pay the women not to get pregnant. I highly doubt that the women drug addicts will use the $100/month on contraceptives...They may or may not continue to engage in risky sexual behaviors.

                              Honestly, in order to get free methadone, etc I would simply require proof of a norplant or other more permanent form of contraception until they are better. An like I said several times..I'd be willing to pay for it.

                              kris
                              ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
                              ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

                              Comment

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