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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

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  • Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

    thoughts?

    NEW YORK — Columbia University said it does not plan to call off a speech by Iran's president despite pressure from critics including the City Council speaker, who said the Ivy League school was providing a forum for "hate-mongering vitriol."

    Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is traveling to New York to address the United Nations' General Assembly. He was scheduled to appear Monday at a question-and-answer session with Columbia faculty and students as part of the school's World Leaders Forum.

    The State Department calls Iran a state sponsor of terror, and Ahmadinejad has called the Holocaust "a myth" and urged for Israel to be destroyed.

    City Council speaker Christine Quinn called Thursday for the university to rescind the invitation, saying "the idea of Ahmadinejad as an honored guest anywhere in our city is offensive to all New Yorkers."

    Quinn, a Democrat, said Ahmadinejad was coming to the city "for one reason — to spread his hate-mongering vitriol on the world stage."

    His planned appearance at Columbia also was condemned by Jewish groups including the Jewish Defense Organization, which described Ahmadinejad as "the Hitler of Iran."

    Columbia spokesman Robert Hornsby said Thursday there was no plan to cancel the appearance, though the university dropped plans for an Ahmadinejad speech last year because of security and logistical problems. The decision came after a Jewish activist group expressed outrage over the invitation.

    Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Friday that the university was free to invite Ahmadinejad to speak, but "personally, I wouldn't go to listen to him -- I don't care about what he says."

    Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League, said in a statement that "anyone who supports terror, pledges to destroy a sovereign nation (Israel), punishes by death anyone who 'insults' religion ... denies the Holocaust and thumbs his nose at the international community, has no legitimate role to play at a university."

    The governor took a different approach.

    "His comments defy logic, history and reason," Gov. Eliot Spitzer said. "He is someone whose views we scorn. But that said, he is here in the state and will be protected by the NYPD and state police and everyone else."

    White House deputy press secretary Tony Fratto said Friday that Columbia made the decision on inviting Ahmadinejad, "and I don't believe we had any play in it."

    "This is a country where people can come and speak their minds," he said, adding, "It would be wonderful if some of the countries that take advantage of that here allowed it for their own citizens there."

    Columbia President Lee Bollinger, in announcing Ahmadinejad's upcoming appearance, described the event as part of "Columbia's long-standing tradition of serving as a major forum for robust debate." He said the Iranian president had agreed to answer questions on Israel and the Holocaust.

    Ahmadinejad's trip to New York also ignited a debate this week over his rejected request to lay a wreath at ground zero. Politicians and families of Sept. 11 victims were outraged that Iran's president might visit the site.

    Police rejected Ahmadinejad's request, citing construction and security concerns. In an interview scheduled to air Sunday on CBS' "60 Minutes," Ahmadinejad indicated he would not press the issue but expressed disbelief that the visit would offend Americans.
    ~shacked up with an ob/gyn~

  • #2
    Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

    Columbia President Lee Bollinger, in announcing Ahmadinejad's upcoming appearance, described the event as part of "Columbia's long-standing tradition of serving as a major forum for robust debate."
    Well, they haven't seen the MSN debate furum!!!!!
    Luanne
    wife, mother, nurse practitioner

    "You have not converted a man because you have silenced him." (John, Viscount Morely, On Compromise, 1874)

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    • #3
      Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

      Well, if we're going to talk the talk...we gotta walk the walk.

      "No, really we're all about Free Speech except for YOU, wacky dude."

      I'd go to hear him talk just to say that I did. "Well, when I went to hear Ahmadinejad speak last week..." I mean that's major smart points right there. People will think "who?" and then I would be granted that "wow, she's so current status.

      Sad, how I think sometimes.

      Jenn

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      • #4
        Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

        Yeah, I would probably go to, for the same reason.
        Luanne
        wife, mother, nurse practitioner

        "You have not converted a man because you have silenced him." (John, Viscount Morely, On Compromise, 1874)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

          I'd go... I think to avoid your "enemies" & not be willing to engage in possible dialogue is foolish!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

            The press keeps covering the story as a free speech issue. It's not. As usual, the press doesn't know anything about the law. They just throw around the phrase like a 2-year-old using a slide rule. The Constitution prohibits the state (that is, the government) from interfering with the practice of free speech. Whether Columbia, a nonstate actor, allows the speaker has nothing to do with the exercise of free speech. Whether they invite him or not, it's not a free speech issue; it's just a question of who they would like to grace their dias.

            I do not begrudge them the right to ask whomever they want to speak. However, on the issue of whether I think their decision to have him speak was a good one, my thought is that it is absolutely appalling that they've asked him to come. His government aids Iraqi insurgents in killing American forces, has held (and still holds) Iranian-Americans in custody without charges, and subjugates its women. Two years ago, his country hosted a very prominent Holocaust Denial "educational summit." Plus, the government has called for the destruction of another country (imagine if he--as the leader of a nuclear power--had made that statement about the UK, or the US, or Egypt, or Saudi Arabia)--seriously, we should think about that. But, since it's Israel, some people act as though the statement is a valid exercise of discourse on the Palenstian condition. Not to mention his hateful rhetoric is almost inexplicable. Since when did the Persian Iranians get so interested in the Arab Palenstian situation? Please. He's just one more person using the Palenstian situation for his own personal political gain. But, just because he's not from here doesn't mean he can't play our political game. I am sure that he will not pull a Hugo Chavez and make ridiculous, outrageous remarks. He knows that Americans know very little about his administration's actual policies, and the radical hatred they reflect--so he can use this opportunity to look lucid.

            What's REALLY amazing and sad? Iran USED to be a very progressive country. In WWII, thousands of Jews were welcomed by Iran. Thirty years ago, there was a thriving Persian Jewish community in Tehran. Now, Iran has the same policies to Israel as Hamas and Syria, for god's sake. The degree and danger of radical hatred of the Jews coming out of some parts of the Muslim world, including Iran, is not particularly appreciated by Americans, because we don't generally watch Al-Jeezra or obtain our news from similar media outlets. The vitriol and open hatred is shocking. You can see it in some radicalized communities in the West. Go into any radical Muslim bookstore in south London. What's in the window? "Mein Kampf" and "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion." It's absolutely frightening.

            Columbia should be ashamed of itself for inviting him. We should call it what it is: really, Columbia just jumped at the opportunity to look critical of George Bush, by warmly welcoming the leader of a foreign country that resists our current war policy. If I were a Jewish student, I would be deeply disappointed in Columbia. Imagine if Columbia had invited to speak the Russian politician who--about three years ago--commented that Condolezza Rice is bitter because she doesn't have a man, or a Jim Crow-advocating politican? The student body would have revolted. But it's OK to be hateful of Israel and, in particular, the Jews, because that means that you agree with people who don't like George Bush.

            It's hypocrisy masked as intellectual dialogue wrapped in a opportunity to look liberal. Ugh.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

              It's so sad that the Iranian people are being subjected to this. My favorite boss in the whole wide world was killed in Iran in an earthquake in 2002. The Iranian people went out of their way to help him and his American girlfriend before they saved their own people and their Iranian guide stayed with his girlfriend until her parents were able to arrive from the US so that no one would tell her he was dead.

              Things like that are why war sucks and evil leaders suck because they won't be the ones that end up dead, it will be the innocent people on both sides.

              At least they denied his request to visit Ground Zero.
              Wife to NSG out of training, mom to 2, 10 & 8, and a beagle with wings.

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              • #8
                Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

                Abigail-

                The Free Speech thing is more that we profess that everyone here has the right to Free Speech. Right?

                As for his actual policies, you're dead on- but according to what I've been hearing and reading his actual power within the Iranian gov't is being stadily diminished by the more moderate (and of course thats by comparison to HIM) clerics.

                Jenn

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                • #9
                  Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

                  Originally posted by DCJenn
                  Abigail-

                  The Free Speech thing is more that we profess that everyone here has the right to Free Speech. Right?

                  Jenn
                  When we say that we have a "right to free speech," the assertion of that right should have a basis, otherwise it is just fluffy filler talk. If the basis is not in the law, but in a broad, liberal (not politically liberal) ideal that more freedom is better than less freedom, and people should be encouraged, not discouraged, from public discourse, then yes--I would think that most Americans would agree with that ideal. But ideals are not laws, so the use of the term "right" to describe this ideal can be confusing, especially since we do have a legally recognized "right" to free speech, separate and apart from the aforementioned ideal.

                  However, if the basis for the declaration of a "right to free speech" is the law itself (whereby we are legally given our rights), then then law does not provide this broad an ideal. It simply prevents state interference from speech--it doesn't promote (one way or the other) private (that is, nonstate forum) discourse.

                  When these two concepts are muddled, we end up with news broadcasters framing issues like Ahmadinejad's invitation to speak in terms of a "right to free speech." The confusion has led people to think the Constitution gives them the right to say whatever they want, whenever they want, and no one can stop them. That's just not accurate. The "right" is about the entitlement to be free from state interference with speech. It is not a right to impose your speech on people in a nonstate context. But then, people get confused about their legal rights all the time. It's sort of like when people say women have "the right to an abortion." No, that's a misstatement of the constitutional right, too. The Supreme Court has interpreted the Constitution to provide a right to privacy--that is, the right to be free from state interference. Connecticut v. Griwold, Roe, and Planned Parenthood v. Casey extend that right to privacy to prohibit state interference in reproductive choice. So women (and men) have a right to reproductive privacy but not a "right to an abortion." The distinction is important--regardless of your view on the particular issue--and shouldn't be lost in sloppy vernacular.

                  I just get frustrated because the right to be free from state interference with speech is so paramount to a liberal democracy that I hope that people don't squander the notion through inadvertent abuse. Contrast our press to that of, for example, almost any social democracy in Europe, where the media outlets are state owned and run. People literally cannot get a diversity of viewpoints and opinions on critical issues because the government pre-frames much of it for them. Every time I turn on "CrossFire" or "FoxNews Sunday" or even Air America, I smile a little--regardless of the topic being mindlessly yakked about, the combination of freedom from state interference in speech and free market capitalism ensures a venue for expression of just about any opinion, and our democracy is only the better for it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

                    Originally posted by DCJenn
                    As for his actual policies, you're dead on- but according to what I've been hearing and reading his actual power within the Iranian gov't is being stadily diminished by the more moderate (and of course thats by comparison to HIM) clerics.
                    Antecdotally, I've heard the same thing. We have several Iranian friends here in town, all of whom follow the situation very closely and keep in contact with their family back home. I hope, for the sake of the Iranian people, that he's not long for power.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

                      The main reason Columbia invites highly controversial speakers is to make it into the news. Along the lines of any publicity is good publicity. It's not the first time majority of the student body objected to a speaker and not the last. Chances are they'll invite someone from the other side in the near future to appease the protesters.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

                        I think it's fine he's coming.

                        I just wanted to commend Sylvia on spelling the name correctly (at least I think it's right ...).

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                        • #13
                          Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

                          I just wanted to commend Sylvia on spelling the name correctly


                          cut and paste, my friend..cut and paste.
                          ~shacked up with an ob/gyn~

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                          • #14
                            Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

                            indeed- because that's how I did it, too.

                            jenn

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                            • #15
                              Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad coming to Columbia Univ.

                              Originally posted by DCJenn
                              indeed- because that's how I did it, too.

                              jenn
                              And I copied y'all's cut-and-pastes...

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