Universal Health Care

[DrWahoo]

Okay I see I am filling up the debates forum, but I promise this will be the last one for this month

I searched to see if we had a thread about this, and I couldn't seem to find one. After reading in the financial section of this forum about the plummeting doctor's salaries, I am interested what you guys feel about this. My sister and I had a huge debate about it and I have mixed feelings. On one hand I can understand people up in arms for having to pay $100 for basic treatment or thousands for short surgeries , but on the other hand I don't think they understand the time and resources it takes to provide them with their care (i.e. nurses, buildings, medical supplies, office supplies, medical equipment, training, malpractice insurance). If the government gets involved I think the system will decimate the middle class either by high taxes or simply lowering the salaries of health care workers, including doctors. Plus the system will become bloated with individuals that simply don't take care of themselves or their children.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Universal Health Care

I have to leave to do my daily preschool pick-up, so I will keep this short.

I disagree that most people don't understand the resources that are required to take care of illness or that providing some sort of universal healthcare for individuals with no insurance will cause the system to be bloated by people who don't take care of themselves. In countries that do provide different forms of universal health coverage, this is imply not the case. As a matter of fact, these countries have healthier outcomes that we do here in the US in many cases. Also, US States with the highest percentage of insured people have the healthiest populations and the lowest healthcare costs in general. MN currently ranks #2 (woohoo)...TX ranks at the bottom...

I'm not as concerned about the tax burden for funding an initiative like this. Make it a little more difficult for Halliburton to form offshore corporate headquartes to avoid paying taxes and we'll be headed in the right direction. I didn't hear a lot of republicans crying over the cost of the war.....and many still justify the pricetag despite the huge financial hit this means for our country and for our children (and possibly their children).

Our senatators and conressman are all blessed with unlimited, fabulous govt. paid for healthcare, btw...and that is one of the main reasons that they are so unwilling to look at the problems of the average working man and woman. If any of them had to fight to get coverage for chemotherapy or have their anesthesia for their surgery paid for, they might be a little more proactive.

I don't think that socialized medicine is the answer and I don't want a system here like Canada or the UK. At the same time, it is shameful that a country that boasts such great wealth and concern for the rest of the world refuses to ensure the health and safety of its own citizens.

kris

Re: Universal Health Care

I think it is time to move on from employer-provided health insurance to individual market. First thing to go is the tax subsidy to companies and pass that along to individuals. There would have to be some mechanism to keep insurer's from cherry-picking only healthy subscribers and a way to keep sick people from getting dropped. One way to do that would be requiring continuous coverage, mandate certain risk pools, something like that. Insurance coverage would still be through private insurers rather than government programs (similar to how some states run their S-CHIP programs).

I haven't been keeping up on the health care "debates" with candidates but for any of them suggesting anything that looks like more Medicare (because the administrative expense is so low) -- I think they should have to process 5 claims from the physician side and from the patient side. It is such a PITA.

[Meenah]

Re: Universal Health Care

I'm with Kris, she said it much better than I can.

[DCJenn]

Re: Universal Health Care

I'm on the road at the US Conference on AIDS. My feelings and experiences about this are a wee bit complicated.

and I an a beneficiary of the fabulous free healthcare sponsored by your tax dollars. I just saw a NP for free, picked up my free meds and went on about my day. (sciatica, totally unrelated to my dancing for two hours at the Springsteen concert- I was medicated prior)
(and by 'free' medical care, other than that tiny little deployment issue that constantly looms overhead, it's awesome)

I'll post more later. especially after three days here.

Jenn

Re: Universal Health Care

Here's where I tighten the belt on my crabby pants. I have a big problem with "free" healthcare.

I know I have made my own complaints about hitting our deductible in February and that sort of thing, but I think people need to pay *something* for the care they are getting and the care they are *expecting*. Healthcare is expensive and if people want the Cadillac care they shouldn't expect to pay the Chevy price.

I do make exception for people say....300% below FPL or something like that, same for someone deciding between food or medications. That is a good place for public assistance, IMO. But it drives me up the wall when I hear someone complain that their prescription medication costs or co-pay or what-have-you keeps them from getting a non-essential right when they want it.

Recent case in point, not to pick on a friend but I will. She was bemoaning the cost of Triluma whitening cream (cosmetic!) at $130 or so for a small tube. I know she spends that much to get her hair cut and colored.

[DrWahoo]

Re: Universal Health Care

I found this interesting website called Physicians for a National Health Program http://www.pnhp.org/. It has slightly changed my view of universal health care. But I do hold concerns that this will obliterate a whole industry and all the jobs that go along with it.

[Meenah]

Re: Universal Health Care

Jenn I wouldn't call that free. You have and will pay way more than me for health care. For what your husband does for this country, I can't even begin to think what would be proper compensation.

Re: Universal Health Care

Just to clarify -- I agree with you Luanne on the above.

Jenn's comment about "free" got me thinking about non-military healthcare and expectations about what is paid.

[Vanquisher]

Re: Universal Health Care

How's this for selfish and greedy?

I think healthcare should be a universal right. However, I am unwilling to sacrifice dh's bottom line. Screw that.

So, in so long as we can have great health care, I don't have to wait a year for an appointment, and dh still makes all that green, I am all for universal health care because I am just that giving.

[DrWahoo]

Re: Universal Health Care

ITA Heidi

Re: Universal Health Care

My feelings on this are also complicated, but I have lived my 30 years up to now in countries with gov't run healthcare, so it is normal to me. I still find it baffling that most people here find the idea so far fetched and crazy, and even most people with liberal views dont want a socialised system.
I agree that you cannot directly compare the US to other countries, it is so huge and has such an established system. Whatever happens, if anything, it will not happen overnight.
What I dont understand is how people automatically think that taxes will skyrocket and doctors salaries will fall? I pay WAY more tax here than I did in Ireland, for the equivalent salary. It is just that the gov't here chooses to spend its tax dollars on other things. Doctors salaries are not so different between here and Canada, or here and the UK, but then I admit that I only know about the primary care type specialties as that is all we have looked into. What about all the money that right now is pure profit for the insurance companies? Or even their running costs? Surely that could be better spent providing actual healthcare if the system was re-structured?
FWIW, my personal opinion is that people should have to pay something, but on the scale of what we pay now as welfare contribution, not crazy insurance premiums. In Canada there is such a system and it depends on your income. And, most of Canada would want to shoot me, but I also think there is nothing wrong with having a private system as well, so if you can afford it, you can have a better hospital room or can choose your own specialist (Ireland and the UK have a 2 tiered system).
Oh, and there is no perfect system!

Re: Universal Health Care

Doctors salaries are not so different between here and Canada, or here and the UK, but then I admit that I only know about the primary care type specialties as that is all we have looked into.

Maybe it is different between primary and specialty but I thought that salaries in Canada are lower. At least that has been my impression.

[Vanquisher]

Re: Universal Health Care

Doctors salaries are not so different between here and Canada, or here and the UK, but then I admit that I only know about the primary care type specialties as that is all we have looked into.

Maybe it is different between primary and specialty but I thought that salaries in Canada are lower. At least that has been my impression.

Me too. Especially for specialists.

Re: Universal Health Care

What's the cost of medical education? Is it as high as here? Part of the need for that fat salary is of course to cover the student loans.

It is not as high as here, nowhere near.

And Nellie and Heidi may be right about the salaries too, but I know that we are expecting to be able to pay off our student loans (which are at the very high end of the US scale) on a Canadian EM salary (if we decide to move back north).

A point that I meant to make last night but got sidetracked is that I really dont think any drastic changes are going to happen here, people just will not accept a hit to their personal wallets. But what really worries me is that the fear of this happening will cause people on the fence to vote "the other way " I hope the candidates can come up with some plans that will prevent this happening.

And another point: I work for the government. It is a job with good benefits. I cannot believe though the number of people I have met who are staying in their jobs just because of the health benefits. This just seems a bad reason to stick with your job to me, and a sad way to live your life. And so many people here complain about the health system, the majority of people that you hear talking about it are not happy and want some change. In the other countries I have lived people complain as people do but most people are happy and thankful for the systems in place and really would not want things to change. :huh: