Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

[Flynn]

Apparently "The Golden Compass" is causing some concerns...
I just received this link from DD's pre-school.

http://snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp

Here's a different look:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01425.html

I haven't seen the film but I plan on it. My kids won't see it until they are much older. I really enjoyed the books but haven't read them for a few years...

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

Yes, we got a newsletter from our church (catholic) saying this movie would turn our children into aetheists.

DH and I have decided we're going to be the least PC parents around b/c our kids are going to watch the shows we watched (Sesame Street) which are supposedly now bad and they're going to enjoy movies as much as he does regardless of what the heck others think they mean.

I give up and I don't even have a little one toddling around yet! :huh:

[Momo]

Re: Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

I don't give a rats hiney about all the hoopla. I was reading an article some time ago (well before the intentional propaganda spin came out about this film)about how it was slammed by critics. It was said that it relied too heavily on CGI & FX and that Nicole Kidman has continued to attach herself to critically panned films. :huh:

Re: Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

We will be in line Saturday to see this with DDs 7 and 10 and don't give a rat's arse what others say. My children are intelligent enough not to let a movie change their views. Give the kidssome credit why don't they?

[houseelf]

Re: Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

I already posted about this in the Debate section under the Sesame street content thread "The World Has Gone Mad"

I posted (is it tacky to quote yourself? )

In a similar vein, I've already received the chain email from one of my more religious friends discouraging me from taking my children to see "The Golden Compass", a screen play based on a novel by noted atheist's Phil Pullman. Give me a f***ing break. I take my kids to Sunday school all the time. When questions about religion arise, I tell my kids my belief but ALWAYS follow it with "you may grow up and draw different conclusions". Recent research reveals that even Mother Theresa went through years of doubting her faith. This is part of the process. We can't shield our kids from an internal struggle for faith that they will inevitably undergo.

At the end of the day, my kid lives for sci fi and fantasy. It is a portal into becoming a competent reader for him. We will watch The Golden Compass at the theater. Get over yourselves.

I'm trying to arrange to go see Daniel Craig, err, I mean The Golden Compass this weekend with DS (almost 8). DD is too young.

Kelly

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

Give the kids some credit why don't they?

Re: Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

As a general rule, I worry about the kind of faith that can't handle the mere suggestion of another view.

[DrWahoo]

Re: Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

I have mixed feelings about this. I think atheist have every right to create films about things they value and to promote them to children. I also think that evangelicals talking to other evangelicals have a right to express their views on if something is out of line with their values. When it comes to spending an eternity in hell, I can understand why some parents are a bit cautious and don't think its a matter of their kids just growing up with good morals. As a Christian that lives by the Bible, I believe very few scriptures would support me taking resources that God has given me and knowingly putting it in the pocket of someone who wishes to offend and denigrate someone who I love very much. BUT, some other Christians who live by the Bible, have a right to take their kids to the movie in order to create dialog. That's the great thing about Christianity, God gives us choices and we as Christians should not condemn anyone for their choices when it comes to trivial matters.

Re: Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

I have mixed feelings about this. I think atheist have every right to create films about things they value and to promote them to children. I also think that evangelicals talking to other evangelicals have a right to express their views on if something is out of line with their values. When it comes to spending an eternity in hell, I can understand why some parents are a bit cautious and don't think its a matter of their kids just growing up with good morals. As a Christian that lives by the Bible, I believe very few scriptures would support me taking resources that God has given me and knowingly putting it in the pocket of someone who wishes to offend and denigrate someone who I love very much. BUT, some other Christians who live by the Bible, have a right to take their kids to the movie in order to create dialog. That's the great thing about Christianity, God gives us choices and we as Christians should not condemn anyone for their choices when it comes to trivial matters.

You know it is what is, like anything support it or not. Everyone has a right to there opinion, and many won't agree - but who cares, it's a personal decision, and one most people won't even talk about IRL. I met a gal who was Wiccan, and she thought Halloween was offensive to her religon... :huh: I didn't exactly get her point, but... hey it's her point so more power to her. Read or not to read... that is the question...

[DrWahoo]

Re: Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

As a general rule, I worry about the kind of faith that can't handle the mere suggestion of another view.

Interesting point that I have pondered a little. I think there is a difference between suggesting and enticing. I can just suggest someone have a piece of cake and their resolve would be strong and then I could slap down a big moist rich piece of cake and say have at it and they would be weak. Then I again I don't know if you mean someones personal faith or the faith of Christianity.

Re: Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

But I think your earlier point is a valid one, that you don't want to support someone whose views you fundamentally disagree with. I've done that for political causes before, and I think it is a valid stance to take. What I don't like is saying that we can't be exposed to something that disagrees with our beliefs, because it might ruin those beliefs. Faith should be stronger than that.

I totally agree with choosing not to support someone with your money b/c it (or they) espouse a belief contrary to your own. My issue is with the "firestorm of controversy", churches telling their members not to see it, a public outcry damning the movie, etc. People should make their own choices -- not be dictated to or put in a situation (as DrWahoo was with Harry Potter) where you feel you have to defend your choice to see / read / experience something.

Re: Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

We Catholics, being somewhat convinced of our own persecution (which I think largely does not exist any more), have something called "apologetics", which is the idea of being able to explain what we believe to others.

To me this is part of the definition of Christianity, with an added dose of still repecting and being able to befriend (not just smile your way through a hard conversation) someone who believes differently than you. This is why I just love C.S. Lewis's writings. He embodies this to a tee - of course then many of his writings are actually classified as apologetics If my kid really just was dying to read this book or another book that is equally thought provoking/challenging , at the right age, I would read it with him and we would talk about it. I'm not into telling my kids world = bad, and don't mix with it, and don't think about what "they - those bad people" think. Hey read it, talk about it, have dialog. Fear to your defend your faith, isn't to me real faith.

[peggyfromwastate]

Re: Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

I will see it- I did want to read the book first, but we'll see if I get around to it. Kate has the trilogy. It isn't her favorite, but she did like them a lot. All the books in this fantasy genre will be objectionable to lots of evangelical groups- but somehow they allow for the "witch" in the Narnia books. I just usually ignore these groups. There are lots more overt attacks on Christianity out there, certainly. And there is a lot to be skeptical about when it comes to the church as an organization. The "church" can be a huge impediment to people finding true spirituality and a relationship with God IMO.

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

I read Roger Ebert's review of this movie yesterday and he said he over analyzed it while watching it looking for the anti-religion or aetheist themes and didn't find any.

DH and I plan to see it but probably not until it comes out on DVD.

[peggyfromwastate]

Re: Ug -- why can't we just ENJOY an epic story?

Lily- I like "A girl named Zippy" too. It's very hilarious. I may look into that book you recommend- but the title scares me! I don't see myself as a heretic! But I'm definitely skeptical about the church as an organization. It seems to reflect the politics of the cut-throat business world too much-- when you get down into the nitty gritty of church leadership. People are just people after all... On the surface, the church can be incredibly helpful to inspire the congregants and to encourage "good works". Below the surface, I repeatedly see the church ostrasizing certain people, passing judgement, and losing focus on what God intended in the first place.

Anyway, I do attend church regularly, and we are Christians, but I always bristle when some organization tells me what to watch (or what not to watch) or read, especially if it comes from an Evangelical organization because the implication is that if you don't follow their dictums, you are not a "true" Christian. And then they cross over into judging me. (And I come from a non-conformist background where my mom was invited to leave several churches for her non-conformist "rebellious" acts-- very shoddy treatment of her which shaped my view of "church".)

But- relevent to the debate...

I will ask Kate what she thought of the books, and if she even saw any message about religion at all. I really really doubt she did. And I doubt most kids who read these types of stories see anything beyond the plot line. Even in the Narnia books, where the symbolism is sooooo very obvious, she didn't see beyond the story line. It makes me really skeptical about any propoganda where people are worried about polluting the kids' minds, by such things as Dumbledore's sexuality or Pullman's overtly atheisitc views. I just don't see kids looking to analyze their literature- they're in it for the entertainment value, and that's it.