What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

[Flynn]

I have a SAHD friend who is extremely RIGHT on the political spectrum. We've had some interesting discussions -- all very friendly -- about why we each think the way we do. WE ARE FROM DIFFERENT WORLDS to say the least and I so DON'T GET some of his ideas -- nor does he understand mine.

I'm posting because there are ROOTS to beliefs. I'm curious as to the WHY not the WHAT here. I don't want to start a thread about "why this is the correct way to think" etc.

I believe that part of a belief system is due to an individual's personality, part is environment (family, part of the country you were raised, etc).

I wonder if my friend had been raised in my environment -- would he believe the way I do and vice versa?

What do you guys think?

[Sheherezade]

Re: What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

I've been thinking about this as well, Flynn. I think the issue becomes very clear when you move to a region with core values that differ significantly from those you've embraced in your life. For me, I have found that the relationship to "authority" is fundementally different here than where I have lived previously. I've always been a "Question Authority" girl. Here, I see the acceptance of authority as dangerous and niave -- whereas those around me see my view as disrespectful. It's odd. I even get the willies when school officials tell me that all the kids in the school should view all adults with respect and respond when a random adult tells them to not run in the halls. I see blind trust and pedophiles.....they see good, respectful children honoring their elders. :huh:

I've realized that this difference colors many of the "strange" choices I make here. I suppose it goes without saying that I tend to lean left/democratic. I like transparency in government and I find paternalistic policies troubling - not comforting. I don't like a strong leader....I like one that reasons with me. The Patriot Act scares me. I'm not big on trust. All this links to the idea I have that Question Authority represents intelligence and keeps others from pulling the wool over your eyes. I see the other side as Blind Faith. Obviously, that's the negative view, but it is interesting to think of how this basic difference in values informs my views on many events and topics.

As for your friend, I do think his views would differ if he had been raised in your environment. Environment plays a huge role in opinion. That's why I think travel and living in different regions is so important to creating a balanced viewpoint. If you've only seen one slice of life, it is hard to grasp the other side. As liberal as I may be, I'm happy we live in a place that gives my children exposure to the other side of the coin. I was horrified when Bush won our mock school presidential election, though!!! (My kids were too!)

Re: What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

I actually think the seeing things as black & white goes the other way. When I was younger it was ALL black & white. I was very much an all-or-nothing kind of thinker. If you didn't agree with me, you were out. If a politician didn't agree with ONE of my opinions, on to the next one, etc. As I've aged I've learned that there's pretty much nothing that is black or white. It's all shades of grey.

As for my political stance -- I'm a moderate w/lefty leanings. I'm socially liberal (no problem with gay marriage, pro-choice, want religion OUT of schools and government, etc.), but fiscally more conservative. I have issues with various "welfare" programs and how they get abused, and I tend to look at the various social programs with more scrutiny than I used to.

Is this a result of where I grew up? I don't think so. My mother wasn't the least bit political, my father is ... so far right he frightens me. I grew up on the other side of town from where Angie lives now, but the same socio-economic "class". The major difference between where we live now / where I grew up is the addition of a very strong religious community ... and that does produce more conservative folks (in general).

[SuzySunshine]

Re: What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

I think Jenn hit the nail on the head, as a kid I thought everything was very clear black and white. As I get older and my experiences change I think there are definitely some grey areas. With that said I'm definitely a republican and I think the largest issue that resonates with me is working for yourself, taking care of yourself and being responsible to yourself and your family. Yes there are some social programs that are good for the whole of the country but one of the biggest reasons I am and have stayed a republican is I beleive people need to work for themselves, pull themselves up by their own boot straps and work for what they get.

Now that being said I'm not at all happy about Bush's new housing plan to save all of those people that got into mortgages they now can't afford but that's another topic.

I truly think that my upbringing and my parents hard work and the fact that we may not have always had what we wanted but made do shaped me into the person I am today. Living in CA was an interesting experience for DH and I b/c we were in a heavily Democratic area but in the end we came away from it with the beleifs and attitudes that we were raised with and still beleive are right for us.

[Sheherezade]

Re: What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

Given the posts so far.....has anyone actually rejected the political stance and values they were raised with? I only see Jenn P's dad in contrast to her current standing - and I know that she doesn't hold him in high regard. From what I see, we all seem to land close to where we start politically.

[DCJenn]

Re: What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

I grew up in the suburbs of Washington, DC. The town business IS politics but unlike the way that it's portrayed "outside" the Beltway, most people in town know that you have to play nicely.

The dichotomy between parties plays well on TV but trust me, these people are playing pool together after work. There's more generational realtionships than party affiliations relationships. (like the freshmen from each Congressional year inevitably do a lot more stuff together than w/ the senior members from their own state or their own party)

That said, I'm liberal. However, I'm not liberal in the sense of let's save everything, mandate everything and spend tons of money on crap programs to make things better for everyone. I'm also not willing to spend bajillions of dollars on computer systems that don't work in the Pentagon, either. (I've always said that if the Feds REALLY wanted to balance the budget, they'd bring in a medical spouse. WE KNOW how to stretch the buck)

I am anti-stupid. Stupid programs, stupid weapons systems, stupid bigotry. I for asking the PEOPLE what they want. I'm a liberal Libertarian. I don't think the government has any business in my uterus, my brain, my pocket or my lifestyle, whatever that lifestyle may be.

I think people who want an education should be able to get one w/out mortgaging their future. I think that people who want to buy a home should be able to get a mortgage that they understand. (does ANYONE really understand all those forms we sign at closing?)

I think abusers should go to jail, druggies should get treatment, thieves should pay restitution or work off their debts.

I respect your right to your religion, I appreciate the same in response. I think religion has no place in politics and everytime any of them brings it up, they get an automatic ding in my head. I don't care what God if any you believe in, because as far as I can see, believing in God has nothing to do with whether or not you ARE a good person, only whether or not you think you're a good person.

I don't care what you're opinion is, just have one. Think, question, vote accordingly.

The End.

PS- this is a normal dinner table discussion in my house. We scare off lots of people.

Re: What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

Given the posts so far.....has anyone actually rejected the political stance and values they were raised with? I only see Jenn P's dad in contrast to her current standing - and I know that she doesn't hold him in high regard. From what I see, we all seem to land close to where we start politically.

During one of our disagreements when I was a teenager (I think it was over my haircut), I yelled (with much venom) " and ... you're a REPUBLICAN!"

He's said to me many times that if I'm a democrat and married to a doctor, then I'm an idiot. FWIW - my general opinions about my dad are based more on his total lack of moral fiber and inability to keep his pants zipped than his political beliefs. Some of my best friends are republican !

Oh yeah -- and I hate unions.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

I consider myself to be a moderate with lefty leanings.

My dad was and is a hard core, right-wing republican who proudly boasts large cash donations to "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" but also vehemently opposes political smear campaigns when they attack the "right". I grew up as a military brat and I totally embraced the military, our country and our way of living. I was very proud of our way of life and thought it was the best and only *real* way to live.

...until I lived in Germany for several years.

Living in europe opened up my eyes to an entirely new way of thinking and caring for each other. I started to see that there were other countries throughout europe that also did things right....great even...just differently from us...and different, I started to realize, was OK...even maybe desirable.

As I have grown older and heard how people have gotten to the bottom points in their lives I have also grown to realize that it isn't always possible for people to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps". The majority of people that I have met with mortgage woes and other problems are not there because they are lazy or bad or aren't working hard. Of the millions and millions (isn't it around 47 million?) of uninsured in this country, 80% of them actually have jobs and work. Lets not even get started on the underinsured.

People also become the way that they are for a reason...many drug addicts and even criminal offenders suffered outrageous abuse as children. There is not equal access to equal quality education in this country either. Children who grow up in poor neighborhoods or underperforming school districts are doomed to not get an adequate education to prepare them for the rigors of college and in some cases even push them in the direction of any kind of eduation beyond highschool.

I have survived a lot in my life and honestly, I prefer to reach back and hold an outstretched hand to others who need help....instead of saying "hey, I did it and so should you." And if I'm perfectly honest, I have been able to thrive in my life because I was able to get counseling....if I hadn't...who knows...For many people that isn't a possibility no matter the terrible circumstance.

I believe that there are social programs that are important and that we SHOULD be investing in good programs to suport specific social needs including helping people with job retraining when they are unemployed, unemployed, even bailing people out fo the mortgage woes. The bottom line on the mortgage thingy? These people were considered to be a bad risk by banks and therefore could only get mortgages at 8 and 9%. If they go up as planned, they will rise to 12-13%.

When we finished fellowship, WE were deemed a bad risk because of our debt load. (Don't fool yourselves if you think it can't happen to you.) We both were hardworking parents and providers and dh is...a dawkter. Our mortgage was at 8.5% until 2 years later when dh made partner and got a bonus that we were able to use to reduce our debt...we were then able to secure a low interest rate.

We weren't a credit risk....we carried a high debt load and the banks used a predatory lending style.

I also think that there is a place for unions even though I vehemently disagree with some of the more recent practices by the unions. If big business wasn't all about profit at all costs the worker wouldn't NEED a union. My dad recently retired as a pilot with American Airlines. The pilots had to take a 22 or 23% pay cut at one point along with reduced health care benefits etc to keep the company afloat....and the big company CEOs all still got their massive bonuses and benefits.....Can you imagine if the hospitals demanded that the docs take a 23% pay cut but then the CEOs got even bigger bonuses that year? Sadly, that is why we need unions. If we didn't have them, even more people would be without healthcare insurance in this country.

That leads me to my final issue ...healthcare. How can we not have a way to get everyone insured? Call it whatever you want....universal healthcare, affordable private healthcare for all....whatever...but there is no excuse for a country that boasts the wealth that we do (hey, aren't we "#1"?) to have people without access to basic healthcare. It is shameful that we turn hardworking citizens towards county facilities that are overloaded and often poorly staffed instead of giving them the opportunity to get truly affordable coverage. No one should have their health insurance cancelled in the middle of a bone marrow transplant and then be blamed for their inability to pay the tens of thousands of dollars in bills and their inability to then pay their mortgage etc. But it happens every day....to hardworking American citizens.

If we really loved this country, we would take care of it.

I'll step off of my soap box.

Kris

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

I think can best be defined as an enthusiastic advocate of one of the most historically important and brilliant documents written in the history of mankind: our Constitution. I believe it is worthy of being observed and held up as the pinnacle of legal and philosophical achievement that it is, and I believe it is worth sacrificing and dying for--whether than means protecting and cherishing domestically by properly interpreting and applying it, or sharing its core principles when the opportunity presents itself by expanding liberal democracy to our fellow man. I believe that spreading democracy is not "occupation" or "cultural subjugation," but the sharing of a value that benefits humankind in a way that transcends culture. These beliefs form the basis of my political views, both on domestic and international issues.

I am the kind of person that didn't cry at her own wedding, but my eyes well up every time I attend a naturalization ceremony at the federal courthouse. I am so moved to watch people become a part of this incredible thing that our country is--to give up one's previously held national affiliation to become an American. I would never, ever give up my citizenship. What an amazing place America is to have people willing to do that to become one of us. When people make lawyer jokes, I get annoyed--not because I don't have a sense of humor, but because the disrespect the general population has for lawyers is painful to hear. I believe there is dignity and worthiness in our system of government and it is a privilege to be a member of the bar that assists people in utilizing that law. I cannot stand people who use their right of free speech to endlessly bitch about how America is such an evil country and is the single worst purveyor of injustice on the planet (to her own people and others)--but I would defend to my death their right to blather on.

I embrace the "strict constructionist" theory of Constitutional interpretation and application. My favorite classes in law school were, without a doubt, con law classes. The Constitution should be applied as it was written, not as people "read into it" to expand federal powers (usually relying on flowery characterizations of it as a "living document"). I believe that the powers that were not given to the federal government in the US Constitution were reserved for the States, and I believe that we should fight attempts to abridge that authority reserved to the People. I believe that following this Constitutional theory (as advocated by Scalia, Thomas, Rehnquist, sometimes Kennedy, Roberts, and Alito, among others), people are most empowered because they are most in control of how government affects their daily lives. I am an advocate of liberal democracy in its grandest and most aspiring tradition (as versus, for example, European social democracy).

And, perhaps most importantly, I believe our sovereignty as a nation is subject to no one.

Often, I find that people who advertise themselves as liberals to me are often exceedingly intolerant and judgmental of anyone, like me, who endorses a conservative Constitutional approach, and presume that I feel the same toward them. However, I don't think people are stupid or less sophisticated or less educated because they don't happen to agree with me. Like almost all ethusiastic lovers of the Constitution that I know, I believe that discourse and disagreement is the best protection of our liberal democracy. If everyone thought the same, we would lose the very thing that protects us from others thinking for us.

There are many things about my political thinking that would not be what "erudite" readers of The New Yorker might dismissively stereotype conservatives as believing. For example:
--I am against defining marriage as between a man and a woman under federal law, but I have no problem with any state defining it however the residents of that state wish--because it is a right reserved to the states.
--I don't believe that Roe v. Wade should be overturned because abortion is wrong (although I happen to think it is). I believe Roe v. Wade should be overturned because--as even some of the decision's most staunch advocates concede--the opinion is was poorly reasoned. If the federal government has a right to guarantee access to abortions, I think it should be based on something other than the famous but flimsy, contrived construction of the "penumbra of privacy rights"--remembering that the right to privacy is not actually in the Constitution.
--I hate GWB's recent announcement of federal interference in subprime bailouts, because it is an example of the federal government interfering with private citizen's contracts.
--I cannot stand Hillary Clinton not because she appears to have completely debased feminism by openly riding her husband's coattails and never really accomplishing anything of her own accord--that was her personal decision. While I don't admire her choices, that's not why I wouldn't vote for her. I might very well vote for a conservative woman who made those same decisions. I can't stand Hillary because at nearly every turn she advocates a modified form of socialized democracy, which I believe at its essence devalues the individual and creates a state of dependence upon the government--and dependence stifles the human spirit and creates spiritual ennui.

I attribute exposure to my DH, who really is a brilliant, deep thinker on political issues, and my studies in law school as being most influential in the formation of my beliefs.

[mommax3]

Re: What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

I am the conservative child of two conservative parents. I have lived in a conservative state for most of my life, with the exception of 8 years, which were spent in another conservative state. I won't pretend that I came to my opinions independently, but they ARE my opinions at this point. I am more liberal than my mother, and about the same as my dad. DH and I are both more liberal than his parents.

My mother was left with four little girls by my dad, and she *did* "pull herself up by her bootstraps" and went back to college, graduating at age 38. However, she couldn't have done it without help....and she had a good upbringing and the mental ability to navigate forms, apply for grants, and get through college without having to study too hard. We were on welfare at times, got free lunch at school, food stamps, etc. I don't know what single moms without a good educational background are supposed to do if we as a society aren't prepared to give them a leg up at some point. At the same time, we all know that there are people who will (and do!) live off the government their whole lives, and create another generation ready to do the same while they're at it. I think there needs to be a cut-off point for gov't aid, and my most radical opinion is that parents who refuse to take steps to learn to support themselves should have their kids taken away. I feel strongly about making sure children are safe, fed, and educated, and I think more of our tax money should go that direction. So I am not exactly conservative there.

I firmly believe that saying about a society being judged by the way it treats its weakest members, and I don't think our country would win any awards in this area. Something needs to be done about healthcare, no question. I have no idea what that is, though. We need to pay people in "caring professions" more money.

I am pro-life, pro-gun control, and anti-same sex marriage (but fine with civil unions). I can't stand any of the front-runners thus far, although I am interested to see how Huckabee does in Iowa. I don't know that I have ever known of a candidate that has my exact stance on the issues.....either I am so ignorant that the things I believe contradict each other, or by the time someone gets to the point of being able to be elected, they have become party-line automatons.

Bottom line.....I am *very* skeptical of the entire political process. It seems to have less and less to do with what the "people" want, because honestly, I don't think we are all that different in our day to day lives.

Sally

Re: What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

Well, in some ways I consider myself politically "homeless". I'm fiscally conservative and suppose I'd be a social moderate. I have many libertarian leanings but don't think there would ever be a viable libertarian candidate given our two party system. During college I was more left-leaning but was never left-wing.

I cringe about the idea of being considered Republican because of any association with the religious right element of the party.

I can't ever worry about being considered a Democrat because the last Democrat that ever made any sense to me was Lieberman -- of course he's pretty much disowned by Democrats (and at times veered off into a little Torah-thumping himself ).

So, now I'm at the point of praying for divided government. I don't want either party to control the legislature and the executive branch at the same time.

My parents now are conservative. I say now because my dad told me once that for many election cycles he often voted for the loser. So, given that I know he didn't vote Republican through the years.

ETA: In high school, I loved civics and was a total nerd about it. Reading the paper daily, watching C-Span coverage of the legislature, watching cross-fire in its infancy. Again, now I simply pray for governmental gridlock. Today, a lot of what Virginia Postrel writes about resonnates with me (and underscores my political homelessness). I've read two of her books and really enjoyed them. I love reading what she has to say on her blog as well: http://www.dynamist.com/

[DrWahoo]

Re: What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

I don't think my leanings are a shock to anyone. But to be clear politically I am a social conservative, but economically liberal. I don't associate with any political party, I vote the issues. This is somewhat totally different from my parents and my dad is a pastor. He once worked on Douglas Wilder's presidential campaign and worked for Jesse Jackson. Growing up I was pro-democrat and pro-affirmative action, but have since left all this behind, because I eventually learned if you are black and really want to get ahead its is all in God's hands, and liberals are clueless.

The last year of DH's medical school we were one welfare Medicaid and Food Stamps. The absolute lowest point in my life. At the same time I feel we have not learned our lesson about being fiscally responsible, and I think many others have not either. With the availability of credit, and the desire to live a certain lifestyle with the HDTVs, Cellphones, internet access, tons of restaurants, most people live beyond their means. That said I think people who want a hand up should get one, but should also get some financial counseling as well.

When I studied the philosophy of law at The University, I learned that almost all laws are based on someones moral reasoning. People who say no religion in politics, are expressing their religious beliefs just like anyone else and so they are no different from a Mormon, Christian, Muslim or Jew in office who votes according to their beliefs. That said I do not want a theocracy, there are gray issues in the Bible that shouldn't be mandated by the church.

I am pro-life, even though I had an abortion and regret it to this day. I am pro-gun control. I personally would rather see a more libertarian approach to marriage than the creation of gay marriage. Civil unions would be fine with me if they were open to single mothers or sisters, who want to create unions so they can get financial benefits like health insurance.

I simply will not knowingly support or invest my time in encouraging or enabling others to sin. It is a person's choice if they want to sin, but they are not getting any help from me.

[Rapunzel]

Re: What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

Well, after the little political test we all took awhile back I can say I am socially moderate (in fact, straight down the middle ) and fiscally conservative.

I grew up in a very conservative place. My parents had very conservative friends. We aren't Sunday Christians - we live our religion.

That being said, my parents were often considered liberal by their friends. Yes, you read that right. My mom told me today on the way home from church about an argument that occured long ago with someone they interacted with a great deal when I was a child. Basically it revolved around interracial dating/marriage and my mother and father told this person, "We don't care about race, culture, or skin color when it comes to whom our children will date and marry. All we care about is that they are a good person, love our child, and can take that child to the temple (for marriage)." (Interesting aside: My mom always bought us an equal number of non-white dolls. If we got a "white" Barbie we also got a non-white Barbie as well. I had a really awesome multi-cultural Barbie collection!). This attitude extended to many other things in life.

But, they consistantly voted Republican and adored Reagan.

I was considered very liberal in Texas. You read that right. Here (in New England) I am considered very conservative (well, unless I'm in New Hampshire...). I can't win for losing. :P Well, except I HAVE been called (in a surprisingly negative tone) a "feminist" in both areas (conservative Texas AND liberal Boston). Chew on that!

Seriously, though: I am shaped by my upbringing, by my experiences, by my culture (including religion), by my personality. I would like to think that I'm too complex of a person to be simply pigeon-holed with labels such as conservative and liberal.

I grew up poor. But, my parents, despite years of my dad's unemployment, never applied for nor desired government aid of any sort (not even unemployment benefits). Education was strongly encouraged in my family - especially with my mom's parents who never received higher than a third grade education. Education was seen as the way out of the poverty that my family faced for many generations.

I was taught to think for myself. My father would purposely take the opposite stance of any political opinion I expressed when I was a teenager. I later learned he did this because he firmly believes that you cannot support something if you do not know and understand the arguments against what you support. He's tricky that way. :P

At the same time I was thoroughly immersed in my religious beliefs. And, my religion has produced some strongly conservative AND liberal persons. One of the most powerful members of the Democratic party is a Mormon. One of the most powerful members of the Republican party is also a Mormon. My deeply religious LDS SIL is as socially liberal a Democrat as there ever was. She would put some of you to shame!

I found that I agree with just about everything GreyMatterWife said in her post. I am a strict Constitutionalist. I DO believe that God's hand was in the founding of this nation and I DO see the Constitution as the document that makes or breaks this nation. Read through her post and you will find many of the basic beliefs I personally hold regarding government.

As such, I support the 2nd Ammendment as the protector of the 1st Amendment and every one of the others after it. I do believe that there are many "social" issues that need to be decided by individual states. I believe in a severely restricted Federal government. And, I believe that the socialist policies instilled by FDR have destroyed many of the basic fiscally responsible principles that used to be regarded as highly American - including saving money for your own retirement. I also believe that Wilson's concept of the League of Nations of which the United Nations is a sad re-interpretation was utter poppycock. I am not an isolationist but I do believe we need to protect American interests - and THAT is the purpose of all nations' governments: To protect the interests of that nation. Therefore, I view much of the money we send to foreign governments (such as Egypt) which accept enemies of the U.S. as a complete waste. I am horrified by our nation's refusal to protect its sovereignity by protecting its southern border from illegal crossings (and, remember, I'm married to the son of a Mexican immigrant - a legal immigrant). And, I think NOW is a joke (Seen them denouncing Saudi Arabian policies such as punishing a rape victim? Nope!).

I could go on and on about my various political opinions, but I will stop here....

[Rapunzel]

Re: What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

I think as most people age, things usually become more black and white to them because they feel like they have to pick a side - Pascal's Wager. The expected yield of believing in religion (to which much of our politics anymore is tied) is greater than the yield of not believing; in other words, in the event that Christ was indeed the messiah and the bible is true, you better be on that side if you want to ride the glory train. Sorry for the tangent. Anyhow, I think most people become more black and white as they age.

DH calls this "Old people trying to get into Heaven."

IOW It's a phenomenon that we've also noticed.

[Rapunzel]

Re: What do you consider yourself politically and WHY?

.Living in europe opened up my eyes to an entirely new way of thinking and caring for each other. I started to see that there were other countries throughout europe that also did things right....great even...just differently from us...and different, I started to realize, was OK...even maybe desirable.

I know many, many people who have lived in Europe and Asia for years at a time (some in the military, most not) and you are the only one who has come away with these opinions. I do hear a lot about France, Germany, the UK - and overwhelmingly I hear starkly different assessments from your own. :huh: