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Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

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  • Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

    I was honestly inclined to feel like the rate freeze was a good idea (which I think might have been the first time I suppoted Bush...possibly ever...) and then I read the following article, which put things back into a different perspective....What do you guys think? The fallout that we are feeling here from this subprime catastrophe is terrible. An article in the paper yesterday suggested that when we finally hit the bottom in our area that home prices will be down up to 30%. THIRTY. Holy crap!!!! Our very small neighborhood has 2 homes in foreclosure. There are homes around town where people are desperately trying to sell by owner and have posted 5 or 6 "please buy this house" signs in their yards!

    Here is the article:

    Homeowner bailout is a lousy idea
    The Bush administration intends to fix the subprime credit mess by keeping people who weren't creditworthy in debt longer and rendering signed contracts meaningless.

    By Jon Markman
    In a pair of moves that might once have seemed too cynical even for Washington, it looks like policymakers have decided the cure for a crisis created by too much cheap credit offered too long is very simple: Extend the terms, encourage more borrowing and have someone else foot the bill.

    It's the financial equivalent of the hair-of-the-dog "cure" for a hangover: a big interest-rate cut from the Federal Reserve next week and, as just announced by President Bush, a massive bailout plan for distressed mortgage holders.

    Have we completely lost our common sense? Is it really desirable to provide easier money to people and companies that got into trouble by abusing their access to money in the first place? And is it really a good idea both to cancel mortgage bondholders' contracts for the sake of an adjustable-mortgage-rate freeze and to provide a couple of years of grace for stressed-out home borrowers who are likely to eventually default anyway?

    I don't think so. It's as if the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury believe the best way to treat heroin addicts is through long-term, government-supplied crack. To be sure, lower interest rates and a mortgage-rate freeze might ease borrowers' pain temporarily, but they do nothing to solve causes or habits -- and without a doubt launch a new cycle of abuse and dependence.

    Building bad habits
    Unfortunately, this is pretty much the history of U.S. economics in the past decade. We call ourselves a free economy but repeatedly let the government intervene to make sure that no one who votes gets seriously hurt. As a result, individuals who make bad choices -- from Gulf Coast residents who build homes in the path of hurricanes to low-income citizens who take out expensive loans for overpriced real estate -- are rescued time after time in well-intentioned but misguided programs such as the one the Bush administration has cooked up for foreclosure-facing mortgage holders and their lenders.

    What has to irk you is the disparity between who wins when things are going well and who loses when things go sour.

    When banks make a lot of money, after all, they suck down the profits by giving their executives and boards outrageous pay packages worth tens of millions of dollars, justifying their actions under the rubric of entrepreneurship. And when the opposite happens? They beg taxpayers for a handout.

    Veteran observer Satyajit Das has disdainfully called the financial industry's attempt to patch over its problems with taxpayer funds the "socialization of losses." It's an approach that may sound good to politicians in an election year yet is not only morally bankrupt but will also merely delay the ugly final reckoning for companies, individuals and policymakers alike.

    Postponing the undeniable anguish involved in making participants own up to debt-fueled losses is exactly why it took Japan more than a decade to shake off the bursting of its own credit bubble back in 1990. Interest rates were cut essentially to zero, but because moribund banks and real-estate tycoons were given government stipends, they drew funds and attention away from more-productive uses, and the country entered a recession that haunts Japan to this day.

    Broken promises
    The program proposed by U.S. Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson -- hammered out in round-robin meetings with mortgage lenders and borrowers' representatives in the past few weeks -- would freeze interest payments on hundreds of thousands of adjustable-rate mortgages for three to five years.

    That sounds nice, but here's the catch: Rising interest rates were contractually promised to the mortgage lenders, which then passed along that promise to companies that bought the loans as part of asset-backed securities and associated derivatives.

    Though the rate freeze would be awesome to a mortgage holder in Muncie, Ind., who wants to get out of his adjustable-rate obligation, it sounds terrible to a pension-fund manager in Munich who isn't getting the income stream he paid for, as well as to the mortgage-servicing company that won't be getting its own piece of the future income stream.

    The breaking of these obligations will not be free. Foreign investors will demand a higher "risk premium" to invest in U.S. real estate, which will make it more expensive for future mortgage seekers to get loans. And they are bound to sue to get the payments they thought they were owed, which will drive up mortgage banks' expenses.

    Moreover, the courts and bureaucrats will be tied up for years in a struggle to define exactly who deserves loan forgiveness. People who are making payments on time will naturally demand to get something out of the deal -- why should they essentially suffer for being responsible? As the cost of the bailout goes up, there's little doubt that state and federal governments will float bonds to pay the refinancing fees and, of course, interest payments on those obligations will be paid by all citizens.

    Economist Martin Feldstein, a former Reagan administration official, told Bloomberg that among other problems, the plan would forever change foreigners' perceptions of U.S. investments. "What are they going to think about investing in American securities in the future if the government can say, 'Well, you thought these were the interest rates and the contract, but we're going to roll that back now, and you'll just have to settle for less'?" Feldstein asked.

    Dr. Frankenstein's debt monster
    When you start working your way though the ramifications, you may begin to understand why I called the great de-leveraging of America a very big, very long-range problem in this column back in September -- not something that can be ignored or wished away. Debt that was created, distributed, leveraged and re-leveraged by a factor of up to 30-to-1 over the past 10 years by financial Dr. Frankensteins has wormed its way into every corner of our lives and will alter the way we do business in ways we are only beginning to understand.

    Indeed, everywhere you look now is evidence that the subprime-debt crisis is morphing and expanding like a creature in a horror movie. Just this week, we learned from hearings in Congress that strapped credit card companies such as Capital One Financial (COF, news, msgs) and Bank of America (BAC, news, msgs) had begun to soak customers by jacking up interest rates on balances for the slightest changes in their credit profiles.

    If you so much as apply for a new credit card, according to testimony gathered at the hearing, your current card provider can boost your rates as high as 30% per year. This is not the kind of fee-generation method that card companies would normally like to pursue, but they have been pushed in this direction by losses elsewhere on their balance sheets.

    In another morph, individuals scrambling to pay rising mortgage rates on houses that are declining in value are also punking out on their auto loans, student loans and home-equity lines of credit. According to a Lehman Bros. survey, 4.5% of auto loans issued in 2006 to well-qualified borrowers were 30 or more days delinquent through the end of September, up a whopping 3% from the previous month. Lehman said that was the largest single-month delinquency leap in eight years and that auto-loan delinquency rates are now the highest in a decade. Meanwhile, 12% of subprime auto borrowers are delinquent on their 2006 loans, according to Lehman Bros., which is the most since 2002.

    Any solution that attempts to solve these issues by cutting rates further to allow people to borrow more will only drag out the effects. It will also force solvent taxpayers to foot the bill for their less responsible siblings and neighbors, a divide that will cause political strife we haven't yet begun to fathom. All of this may ultimately work out in the fullness of time, because Americans are forgiving and generous people. But in the meantime, financial stocks are likely to continue to suffer, so continue to avoid them even as they fitfully rally over the next weeks. They are likely headed much, much lower, as their fundamental value recedes with their profitability.
    ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
    ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

  • #2
    Re: Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

    Originally posted by *Lily*
    I don't think people should be bailed out. A lot of people got in over their heads buying mcmansions and taking on second and third mortgages in the "flip this house" greed. Sorry. I pay my bills and I have a good house. If you can't pay your bills on time or you overshot, suck it up like the rest of us, get a second job and learn to live within your means. I think the bailout, like bankruptcy and insurance settlements, screws those of us who play by the rules.
    Wife to NSG out of training, mom to 2, 10 & 8, and a beagle with wings.

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    • #3
      Re: Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

      [quote=Suzy Sunshine]
      Originally posted by "*Lily*":099c7
      I don't think people should be bailed out. A lot of people got in over their heads buying mcmansions and taking on second and third mortgages in the "flip this house" greed. Sorry. I pay my bills and I have a good house. If you can't pay your bills on time or you overshot, suck it up like the rest of us, get a second job and learn to live within your means. I think the bailout, like bankruptcy and insurance settlements, screws those of us who play by the rules.
      [/quote:099c7]

      ITA.
      ~Jane

      -Wife of urology attending.
      -SAHM to three great kiddos (2 boys, 1 girl!)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

        Originally posted by *Lily*
        I don't think people should be bailed out. A lot of people got in over their heads buying mcmansions and taking on second and third mortgages in the "flip this house" greed. Sorry. I pay my bills and I have a good house. If you can't pay your bills on time or you overshot, suck it up like the rest of us, get a second job and learn to live within your means. I think the bailout, like bankruptcy and insurance settlements, screws those of us who play by the rules.
        I pretty much agree with this. Like Lily said, I pay my bills on time and don't expect anyone other than us to pay it. If people are overly-optomistic about what they can afford, they have to face the eventual consequences.

        I wish I could remember where so I could reference it...I saw something about people who were deceived into signing mortgages for multiple properties or for WAY WAY more than they could afford. In those cases, I think there should be some consequence or assistance. But not for these "bit off more than they can chew" cases. One of the risks that comes with the lower rate benefit of an ARM is that the rate can go up. :huh: It's not a big surprise.

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        • #5
          Re: Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

          Nodding head in agreement with those above. And I would only add that Bush has never been a true fiscal conservative.

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          • #6
            Re: Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

            [quote="uvagradk"]Nodding head in agreement with those above. And I would only add that Bush has never been a true fiscal conservative.[/quote]

            I agree completely.

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            • #7
              Re: Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

              I won't pretend I understand all of the ins and outs. We did have an ARM in Cleveland, (clearly not a mcmansion) when the interest rates were low. It was locked for 5 years (I think) and then went to ARM, by which time we would have sold or refi. IF we were still in residency, & had not been able to refi that would have killed us. Our money was crazy-tight during residency. Not anyone else's fault, but I don't think EVERYONE caught up in this was just being irresponsible.

              However, it's impossible to pass "bail out" legislation on a case-by-case basis. I've heard that what's being discussed won't help anyone who is already behind. What worries me the most though, is that if the banks get bailed out by the government, what is their incentive not to do this again?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

                Originally posted by Jane
                IF we were still in residency, & had not been able to refi that would have killed us. Our money was crazy-tight during residency. Not anyone else's fault, but I don't think EVERYONE caught up in this was just being irresponsible.
                These were my thoughts originally, based on our experience after residency as well. Also, I can think of two other med families that were in an ARM situation. They have both since moved to diff. homes in the area and have fixed loans...we all kind of went fixed at the same time because we were lucky enough to.

                I don't think everyone affected by this is irresonsible but at the same time, the banks shouldn't get a free pass either....
                ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
                ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

                  I was really pissed off at Bush for doing this, even though it is not, by its terms, nearly as encompassing as the news media is suggesting. However, any governmental pressure to alter privately negotiated contracts made in legal good faith (as these were) should not be subject to strong-arming from the feds. It will screw the rest of us over--we will be absorbing these costs in the form of higher interest rates, stiffer loan terms, and tighter credit--inflicted upon the people who were responsible in the first place.

                  And I agree with the poster that noted that Bush has never been a fiscal conservative. Very true.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

                    What I keep hearing on the news over and over are interviews with people whining that when they signed the lending agreement for the ARM "nobody told them" that the rate would dramatically increase (ie "balloon") in a few years.

                    Puhleeze.

                    We took out an ARM on the townhouse we lived in while dh was in medical school. We had ALL of the terms carefully explained to us. The loan officers have to do this *by law*. We were told the various difficulties that could happen with an ARM. It was hammered into our heads as we signed the dotted line that there was going to be a balloon payment and it was going to be far outside our monthly capabilities.

                    We took out the ARM because we knew we would be selling the townhouse in three years time *max*. ARMS are good for very, very limited situations. And, those people who took them for investment purposes ("flipping" houses) made bad financial calculations. It happens. It's a part of business - it's a loss. I shouldn't have to save you from your own business losses. That's not capitalism.

                    I get so tired of people complaining that they didn't know the terms of their own loans. Cry me a river. You DID know the terms you just prefer living in la-la land and ignoring the fact that you signed your own financial doom. Out of greed. Or perhaps complete stupidity.

                    Should the government save people from their OWN greed and/or stupidity.

                    No.

                    So, I agree with the premise of this article as well as the vast majority of the sentiments expressed here. There are consequences for actions. Those who saved from negative consequences without learning their lessons (ie they refuse to take responsibility for their part and blame others) are doomed to repeat their mistakes.

                    And, yup, the exact same thing is going to happen with credit cards.

                    Even more scary? This kind of crappy financial decision-making on the part of a greedy populace helped facilitate the Great Depression.
                    Who uses a machete to cut through red tape
                    With fingernails that shine like justice
                    And a voice that is dark like tinted glass

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

                      gasp...do I detect agreement of sorts by most political persuasions? Has the world tipped off its axis?

                      Greymatterwife wrote:
                      any governmental pressure to alter privately negotiated contracts made in legal good faith (as these were) should not be subject to strong-arming from the feds
                      I have a huge ethical problem with this. Apparently, it is o.k. to bail out the mortgage lenders who engaged in some amount of nefarious lending, but NOT the student loan debtors by permitting re-consolidation at a later point. Student loans were amassed to maximize this country's human capital, not consumption within the real estate market. I call .

                      Kelly
                      In my dreams I run with the Kenyans.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

                        Our house is on an ARM - but its a 7 year ARM which means it won't adjust until August 2011 and we plan to move in May '07. There is of course the small chance that we won't sale it or be able to refinance it but we knew all this going in and we WERE told that it could increase significantly. We don't need bailing out, we knew what we were getting into and if someone seriously didn't tell people that their rates would change then yes, maybe the mortgage companies need to be punished. But people who took out these loans without doing their homework have no excuse, step up and take some responsibility for your actions and stop trying to keep up with the Joneses.
                        Wife to NSG out of training, mom to 2, 10 & 8, and a beagle with wings.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

                          We also had an ARM loan on our previous house. It was made abundantly clear to me that after three years the rate would adjust. Our rate was so low, around 4.75% I think, that I knew it wouldn't go anywhere but up. Honestly, when we took out the loan we probably should have done a 5 year instead of a 3 year ARM but it worked out fine. It would have really sucked if we had been stuck with the house and a high rate but I feel like that was the chance we took in return for a lower rate.

                          This is just my two cents, but I think that a good part of the mortgage business is always teetering on the edge of over-extending itself. They have a product to sell and want to sell as much as they can. Bailing lenders out -- and won't they benefit more than consumers? -- sets a bad precedent.


                          Student loans were amassed to maximize this country's human capital, not consumption within the real estate market. I call .
                          Good point!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

                            Originally posted by house elf
                            gasp...do I detect agreement of sorts by most political persuasions? Has the world tipped off its axis?

                            Greymatterwife wrote:
                            any governmental pressure to alter privately negotiated contracts made in legal good faith (as these were) should not be subject to strong-arming from the feds
                            I have a huge ethical problem with this. Apparently, it is o.k. to bail out the mortgage lenders who engaged in some amount of nefarious lending, but NOT the student loan debtors by permitting re-consolidation at a later point. Student loans were amassed to maximize this country's human capital, not consumption within the real estate market. I call .

                            Kelly
                            Not BS in the least. You're comparing apples and oranges, so your analogy is not legitimate, at least from a legal point of view, which is how I was analyzing it.

                            When the terms of school loans are reconsolidated, both parties come to the table with, what's call at the law, "consideration"--that is, each party has a quid pro quo, arrived at through an "arm's length negotiation," that serves as a reason for that party to change the original terms of the contract. For example, the lender may get a locked in rate its likes, or the right to certain collateral, or additional ways to seek recovery upon default, or whatever--while the borrower may get more loan stability, or a rate he too likes, or whatever. There is nothing wrong with modifying contract terms post-signature due to a mutually agree-to change in consideration. Moreover, consolidation and re-consolidation are concepts that were possibilities for modification of the contract at the time the original contract was entered into--that is, both parties knew that might occur, with an appropriate change of consideration, later on. Reconsolidation has long been permitted and the parties knew this at the time they entered the contract.

                            Contrast this to the federal government, coming in post-signature and "persuading" lenders, by the powers it inherently holds and the threats it can make come to fruitition, to participate in its plan(and, among other things, "freeze" interest rates). As the Bush administration has conceded, it cannot unilaterally (as a third party who is not a party to the private contract) alter the terms of the contract. The federal government cannot "undo" or alter the terms of a lgal private contract. So, it is relying, as they put it, on "moral persuasion"--which is not really persuasion, but a threat of making life more difficult for the lenders, if they don't play ball. However, there is no such thing as moral persuasion in contract-making. This is a basic tenet of the law of contracts. "Doing the right thing" is a not a term providing quid pro quo. Effectively, what the Bush administration is doing is artificially creating an incentive (an implied threat of using the Administration's power against the lenders by imposing greater regulation and other interferences) for the lenders to modify the contract in a way that favors only the other party. And, very importantly, unlike loan consolidation scenarios, this is an incentive that NEITHER party could have conceived of at the time the loan was negotiated. That's what makes it strong-arming.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Fixing the Subprime *Disaster*

                              Originally posted by GrayMatterWife
                              Not BS in the least. You're comparing apples and oranges, so your analogy is not legitimate, at least from a legal point of view, which is how I was analyzing it.
                              Uh - she's a lawyer too. :huh:

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