Not all residents are smart...

[peggyfromwastate]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

I told DH about this all, and he thought it was not all that shocking. Apparently lots of inapporpriate humor goes on in the OR. Lots.

Anyway, this to me is all about money. The strip club guy is going to get a load of money, the chief resident is going to be screwed, and the press is going to make their killing on a hot story for about... 3 hours... And then... they'll forget, but the doc's family will continue to suffer long down the line.

I think that he could be fired b/c he's a liability, b/c he did infect the field (good point Lily), but I think the only thing he did differently from all the other people in the OR that day was to take the picture. Like they weren't calling in everyone to see this guy's tat. I'm sure that while he was under anesthesia everyone had a really good laugh. So, no, I would not fire the doctor. I would take away the chief title, maybe make him do some "sensitivity training" or something, and use this case to drill it into the future docs out there what not to do...

Also, I do not believe the tatooed guy's feelings are hurt-- I think he's playing it all for a big payday.

Mostly I agree with Heidi on this one.

[Sheherezade]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

So, I just read an article on the incident. It states that the picture was taken on a cellphone camera in the OR, shown to OR staff and erased almost immediately. Is that what has been reported elsewhere? That sounds different to me than "shown all around the hospital".

[Sheherezade]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

To Annie:

I know that they do fire in some cases of addiction (and I think they should) but they don't always. It isn't a given. I'm surprised that this incident is viewed as a completely closed case. He sucks. Lose him. It feels knee jerk to me. I think I am offended because I'm not sure the incident would have been handled this way if the media wasn't involved. I'm tired of the media making all the decisions in this world. If it's wrong, it should always be wrong - not just when it shows up on MSNBC. If it isn't wrong or if the hospital feels that it is an isolated incident, that should hold regardless of press. Of course, that isn't the world we live in.

[spotty_dog]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

I told DH about this all, and he thought it was not all that shocking. Apparently lots of inapporpriate humor goes on in the OR. Lots.

My first impression on reading the story was that with the amount of silliness that goes on between ED docs, often at the patients' expense (because honestly sometimes they have to laugh so as not to go nuts) that this was totally something that my husband could find himself doing in a fit of thoughtlessness. (BUT please be assured I thought a moment longer and realized he takes patient confidentiality VERY seriously and NEVER takes a photo without permission! Ever, EVER!)

I am so, so sad that this moment of idiocy could destroy so many years of hard work. It makes me utterly sick to my stomach. But I just don't see any other options on the part of the hospital. Like Cheri said, the name pulls in some high profile clientele that want to be reassured of confidentiality. This hospital of all is going to have to be seen to come down hard.

I skimmed and didn't really register who called the newspaper. But man, was that an assholish move or what? Going straight to the PRESS rather than the hospital administration?

[Flynn]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

I am so, so sad that this moment of idiocy could destroy so many years of hard work. It makes me utterly sick to my stomach. But I just don't see any other options on the part of the hospital. Like Cheri said, the name pulls in some high profile clientele that want to be reassured of confidentiality. This hospital of all is going to have to be seen to come down hard.

I skimmed and didn't really register who called the newspaper. But man, was that an assholish move or what? Going straight to the PRESS rather than the hospital administration?

I agree.

I am so sad for the family of the resident...but the hospital has no choice.

They will get MAIMED in the press if they let this guy stay on.

It's reputation suicide.

[Stella]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Wow. I can't believe some of the reactions to this. I can't believe that some of you are defending this resident and I can't believe that you would feel the same way if it were a woman being photographed. What if it were YOU?

I know that residency sucks and I know some of you have had a hell of a time with it, but that is no reason to take the firing of this jackass so personally.

If I ever found out that someone had taken a photo of ME in the OR, I would not only sue them for every dime I could get my hands on, but I would go SO FAR out of my way to make sure that they got fired and that they were generally miserable.

Taking that photo is a smack in the face to the patient and to patients everywhere. And it shouldn't matter at all what the tattoo said, what business the man owned, that it was a man, or that he had a tattoo at all!!!!!! The only thing that matters is that the patient was SERIOUSLY violated.

Geez, I can't believe someone could be so stupid. I mean, come ON!

He will never be a surgeon, EVER. He would never get in at another program, EVER. He will have a hard time starting over and matching in ANY program.

GOOD. He doesn't deserve it. And if there are other surgeons doing the same stupid things, then they don't deserve it either. He can be a GP.

[Vanquisher]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

I told DH about this all, and he thought it was not all that shocking. Apparently lots of inapporpriate humor goes on in the OR. Lots.

I skimmed and didn't really register who called the newspaper. But man, was that an assholish move or what? Going straight to the PRESS rather than the hospital administration?

I know I said I was done with this, but that was before I had a few more peeps on my side. Anyhow, I think the a-hole that ratted him out is WORSE here. There is the liability. To take this to the press instead of handling it internally? That, to me, is a worse offense. That is cold, calculated, intent to do harm not only to the resident, but to the patient as well. It also damages Mayo. Fire his ass.

Now, I still don't believe that Mayo has no choice in this matter but to fire this resident. I really don't. You can take something seriously and be punished without being fired.

GOOD. He doesn't deserve it. And if there are other surgeons doing the same stupid things, then they don't deserve it either. He can be a GP.

Is that a backhanded slap at GPs?

I mean, I almost think this is naive. Doctors are human beings. They talk and say all kinds of horrifically inappropraite things ALL the time. I am unwilling to say that a physician should lose his livlihood over this. I think it is utterly harsh. I agree completely with everything Angie has said and with what Laura said. You know, ya'll, you better hope that the doctors you are married to walk on water, because I happen to be married to a fallable human being. He can be an asshole sometimes. Sometimes I want to drop kick his ass from here to Wisconsin, but if he made a mistake I would stand by him. If he did something like this it would devestate me, and the impact on me and our children is too much to bear to think of. He would never do this particular thing, but your spouses will make mistakes at some point in their career. It will happen. These are human beings who do not deserve to have their lives ripped to shreds for a moment of idiocy.

I am suprised that a group of people who are married to physicians, who know that they are not the Gods that people make them out to be, who know what utter asses they can be, what mistakes they can make, and the hell of this life would so easily condemn this man. What if it was your spouse? I know, I know, your spouse would never ever do this, but just try to put yourself there.

[alison]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

I agree with you, Heidi. It's an unfortunate mistake, and I think this sort of thing happens more frequently than any of us would like to admit. 99.9% just aren't caught. It shouldn't cost someone his/her career.

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Update, looks like he might have broken an AZ medical board law which could add to the problem.

Disciplinary action postponed for physician who photographed patient's penis
Kate Nolan
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 19, 2007 07:14 PM

Mayo Clinic Arizona officials Wednesday met and postponed disciplining a young physician who used a cell phone to photograph a patient's penis during surgery at Mayo Clinic Hospital in Phoenix.

Dr. Adam Hansen, chief resident of general surgery at the Phoenix hospital, told superiors last week he snapped the photo during a Dec. 11 gallbladder surgery on patient Sean Dubowik, whose penis bears the tattooed words "Hot Rod."

Since hearing about the photo, Dubowik, who runs a topless bar, said he felt "violated, betrayed and disgusted."

Hansen showed the image to other members of the surgical staff, and an investigation has been under way since a staff member reported the incident to medical supervisors last week. Hansen has been placed on administrative leave and is neither seeing nor treating patients. He has been unavailable for comment.

At Wednesday's hearing into the incident, Mayo officials from medical, education and administrative departments heard reports from an ongoing investigation. A spokeswoman could not confirm whether Mayo Clinic Arizona board chairman Dr. Victor Trastek attended the meeting.

The group expects to meet again Thursday and consult with management including officials based at Mayo's Rochester, Minn., headquarters.

According to Dr. Joseph Sirven, Mayo education director in Arizona, the investigation involves interviewing "whoever could have been there, so we can get a 360-degree view of what happened." A participant in Wednesday's hearing, Sirven earlier said Hansen's discipline options ranged from probation to termination.

A spokesman for the Arizona Medical Board could not comment on whether the incident was in breach of the Arizona Medical Practice Act. Under state law, unprofessional conduct can include viewing a disrobed patient in the course of treatment if the viewing is not related to diagnosis or treatment. The statute also bans conduct that may be harmful to the health of the patient.

[Sheherezade]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Now that's a punishment I can get behind, Annie. You'd make an interesting judge! :>

And frankly, faced with the end of the road after 9 years in training to practice medicine....he'd probably go for it.

[JaneDoe]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Maybe firing him is too harsh. I think they should take a photo of his penis (with a ruler for scale) and post it with his along side his picture in the papers, the resident lounge and give copies to his patients before they meet him. If he still wants his job he can have it. :>

When I told my Dh about this, he said the punishment should be to make the resident get a tattoo on his penis of the word "HIPAA".

[Stella]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

I think the a-hole that ratted him out is WORSE here. There is the liability. To take this to the press instead of handling it internally? That, to me, is a worse offense. That is cold, calculated, intent to do harm not only to the resident, but to the patient as well. It also damages Mayo. Fire his ass.

Wow. That's just absurd. I love you, Heidi, but I'm not even going to justify that with a rebuttal.

GOOD. He doesn't deserve it. And if there are other surgeons doing the same stupid things, then they don't deserve it either. He can be a GP.

Is that a backhanded slap at GPs?

Absolutely not and you shouldn't be taking it that way. You're acting like his life is over and he's on his deathbed. Give me a break. There are other options. If anyone is being backhanded, it surely isn't me. I am just saying that there are other options for work. You're making it sound like his life is over. And that's ridiculous.

You know, ya'll, you better hope that the doctors you are married to walk on water, because I happen to be married to a fallible human being. ... I am surprised that a group of people who are married to physicians, who know that they are not the Gods that people make them out to be, who know what utter asses they can be, what mistakes they can make, and the hell of this life would so easily condemn this man. What if it was your spouse? I know, I know, your spouse would never ever do this, but just try to put yourself there.

It's not necessary to assume that everyone who disagrees with you is so arrogant. I know you are upset about your experience with residency, but frankly, I don't see how that is relevant here. What happened to compassion for the patient, not just the doctor? And why are you so quick to "condemn" the man who ratted him out? Doesn't that go against your own argument?

IF my SO were to ever be so unbelievably stupid, it would not only make me question his abilities to provide medical care, but it would also make me question him as a person - not to mention MY abilities to judge character.

What he did wasn't just "a stupid mistake," it was WRONG. Morally WRONG. And last time I checked, morals were in the hippocratic oath.



Oh yeah, and I'm pretty sure that if some jackass resident took a photo of YOUR private parts during YOUR recent surgery, you'd be pretty pissed, too.

I think they should take a photo of his penis (with a ruler for scale) and post it with his along side his picture in the papers, the resident lounge and give copies to his patients before they meet him. If he still wants his job he can have it. :>

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

One thing I find interesting about this is that a local reporter posted this to his blog early today but it wasn't in today's paper (the paper here is an evening paper). Yet it was on MSNBC by mid-afternoon. That tells you how much control TWFMC has on this town.

I have to agree that if this was a female patient there would probably be very little question as to what would be done.

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Maybe firing him is too harsh. I think they should take a photo of his penis (with a ruler for scale) and post it with his along side his picture in the papers, the resident lounge and give copies to his patients before they meet him. If he still wants his job he can have it. :>

When I told my Dh about this, he said the punishment should be to make the resident get a tattoo on his penis of the word "HIPAA".

I'll go with that.

I'm in the middle here. It was wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG. I don't think he should lose his license (which I said before). I do think he should take several steps backwards and there need to be severe, severe consequences. As for what I think will actually happen -- he'll be fired. There is no way Mayo can not look to be harboring an asshole if they don't fire him. And I don't think anyone would have batted an eye before firing him if he'd taken pictures of a woman.

[poky]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Who's to say nobody *did* go through internal channels? Call me cynical, but it's possible higher-ups dismissed this until it hit the press, isn't it? I don't like the press creating this kind of pressure, but if it's the only way...

(and I have no idea either way, I may be way off base, it just seems like a possibility, to me).