Not all residents are smart...

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Shouldn't said resident (no matter what might have gone down) be spending his time lawyering up. And if he was smart enough to do that would he even be spending any time with the press right now saying anything other than "no comment". Curious.

[MDPhDWife]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

The statement basically says that both the resident and the paper's source are being held responsible but it sounds like at this point they don't know who went to the press.

I could be wrong, but isn't there something within HIPPA that protects whistleblowers? I couldn't imagine there isn't, otherwise no one would want to come forward in fear of being implicated. :huh:

[MDPhDWife]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

I don't CARE if it happens all the time, that doesn't make it right or even okay. If you go on with that argument then I guess wife beaters, murderers, and others should be let off the hook, too, because... ya know... it happens all the time. I'm not comparing the stupid resident with the murderers but once you start saying "Everyone else does it," you're asking for trouble.

My thoughts exactly.

Re: Not all residents are smart...

The statement basically says that both the resident and the paper's source are being held responsible but it sounds like at this point they don't know who went to the press.

I could be wrong, but isn't there something within HIPPA that protects whistleblowers? I couldn't imagine there isn't, otherwise no one would want to come forward in fear of being implicated. :huh:

A whistleblower could report to the hospital administration instead of the press.

[houseelf]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

I think there are stories that are told all the time. As long as you don't identify the person, I think technically it's kosher. As far as photographing goes, I assume the patient has to have signed a release, but it's probably part and parcel of the stack they sign when they're admitted to a teaching hospital.

Quick survey for illustrative purposes: Who amongst us here can identify our nether regions in a photo lineup? :huh: For that matter, who can identify specifically one of their internal organs?

The privacy interest was violated b/c Mr. Hot Rod has a specifically identifiable sex organ, at least to those who know personally and/or he has informed of his peculiar choice in body art. Clearly, there are ethical issues abound for using a patient's nether regions for voyeristic/entertainment purposes, but this guy isn't the first to make a dipshit decision in a professional capacity. Think of the stories of SODs having sex in call rooms rather than sleeping or attending to patient care, carelessly releasing details of cases for entertainment. The guy deserves a severe punishment, but not his entire livelihood. The fact that Mr. Hot Rod owns a stripclub has no bearing on his privacy rights whatsoever, except that jurors aren't going to like him when they attempt to fashion an award of compensation for damages.

My fear is that case may quell recording interesting cases for possible research which can save or improve lives. Technology has revolutionized medicine in that physicians can share, educate, and confer about cases instantaneously around the world. It's too bad that this case has shed such a bad light on the practice of photography in the OR.

Kelly

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Kelly, I agree with everything you said except for one point -- the photo had absolutely nothing to do with the surgery he was about to have.

[houseelf]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

My whole point here is not whether he should have taken the picture. Clearly, no. Still, I have a huge problem with him losing the ability to practice medicine when there are lots of other physicians who have shown extreme lapses in judgment and still enjoy the right to practice medicine lawfully. How many impaired physicians have made decision under the influence or while hung over? How many physicians have wrongly accessed records that they knew they shouldn't? I really think that there is a lot more agreement here than the passion in this thread would first suggest. Unless I have misread this, pretty much everyone agrees that this surgeon abused his position and this patient's privacy. The fine line of disagreement lies in whether the punishment fits the crime. I think that the most exacting analysis in this thread came from Angie in regards to the punishment being exacerbated because of the PR angle. So not fair.

IMHO, this offense needs to be considered against the backdrop of similar offenses, not in the court of public opinion.

Kelly

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Quote from DH "So THAT's why these surgeons have so many infections. They're taking their cell phones into the OR with them."

Totally off topic, I know...

Kris

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Well, after talking to some friends who are still in training, I've been informed that it is not at all uncommon (from experiences at multiple hospitals) for people to snap pics of tattoos, weird things shoved weird places, etc. w/their cell phones. Not exactly reassuring, but apparently this guy isn't as out of the norm as I'd like to think.

[planet]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

And after dinner conversation with dh, I have more compassion for the resident and less for the person who went public rather than dealing with this internally. Dh had a good point that there's NO WAY Mayo would have let this slide once reported so the person going to the media probably either did have an issue with the resident or felt very strongly that this is a serious problem (maybe with Mayo, but maybe just in genenral) and felt the need to make an example. I guess I was wrong about the personal snapshots too. Though dh has seen it in the context of related to surgery, personal cameras are not at all unusual. Makes me wonder about the sterile field a bit too. I didn't ask about that. He seemed surprised the chief was putting the catheter in. My guess is they stay out of the field for the pics? Dh's first question was if the guy had a family. He was pretty pained for the guy's future both with the hospital and at home.

In the end it won't matter if the punishment is too harsh though. That's the thing about going public. And yes, Kelly, I would be a rather typical juror by your description. But isn't that what a good lawyer is for? To sway the minds of folks like me?

[migirl]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

FWIW, here are DH's thoughts on the subject:

- Termination is too harsh a punishment. He should definitely have been severly punished, but ruining his career over a juvenile lapse in judgement is going too far.

- He sees personal cameras in the OR all the time. Obviously, this picture was not taken in the context of the surgical procedure that was being performed, so it was clearly inappropriate. DH also doesn't recall ever specifically getting a patient's consent to have photographs or video taken during surgery, even though it happens all the time. He thinks the language may be buried somewhere in the mountains of consent paperwork that patients have to sign before agreeing to have surgery performed. So, most likely, this patient also signed some sort of agreement to agree to be photographed BUT - like I stated earlier - this photograph was clearly taken with a different intent from medical and academic interest.

- DH thinks this resident will most likely be able to finish out his GS training somewhere. As DH says, "It probably won't be a place like Mayo," but he'll most likely be able to find a spot somewhere ... it might not be the most desirable hospital/location. He'll have a lot of explaining to do about the situation, both to get into another training program and once he finishes.

[Vanquisher]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Isn't it interesting that the physician spouses seem to have more compassion for this guy's situation than many of us? i.e. that he was wrong, should be punished, but termination is too strict.

I would just like to state, for the record, that this has been my position from the beginning.

I totally agree with Kelly on this. Oh, and pictures in the OR are common. And, things like catheterization happen in the OR before things are "sterile" and prepped out for surgery.

[peggyfromwastate]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Here, here Heidi. Me too.

DH does take pics in the OR for research/papers. If they want to use photos in a paper, there are lots of forms to be signed by the patients specific to those photos.

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

DH & I talked about this some more last night too and he agreed that the "whistle blower" obviously had an issue and by going to the press was just as much in violation of HIPAA as the resident.

As for the cameras, they may be common in other hospitals but not here. DH has worked in ORs with just about every specialty and has never once seen a personal camera or a cell phone camera. There is always an official photographer available and I'm sure the policy is the same in Jacksonville and Scottsdale for this exact reason.

The official Mayo statement which DH read to me off the intranet last night basically says the whistle blower is also going to be punished as soon as they figure out who it was. DH & I both hope that he is able to finish his training somewhere but I'm also very interested to hear his side of the story which he has said he'll do now that Mayo's decision has been made.

ETA: And I don't want anyone to think that I think Mayo is better and above all others they just have some very strong traditions and rules and the residents here are held to a higher standard then some (not all) programs.

[Flynn]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Here, here Heidi. Me too.
DH does take pics in the OR for research/papers. If they want to use photos in a paper, there are lots of forms to be signed by the patients specific to those photos.

So the pictures are taken without written approval but cannot but used unless there is written approval? That's okay in some programs? Wow. (I apologize if I read this wrong.)

I don't think ANY doctor or resident has any business snapping a picture of me WITHOUT my written PRIOR approval. PERIOD. I don't care if he/she doesn't use it for a paper or presentation and it's sitting on their computer somewhere for "learning purposes."

If it were brought to my attention I would SERIOUSLY consider suing. It's a VIOLATION plain and simple. I cannot take pictures at my kids' swimming lesson without the other parents saying it's okay. Doctors can take a picture of my internal and external organs WITHOUT PRIOR APPROVAL??? I think not.

The idea that a picture of a woman's vagina is on a doctors computer WITHOUT her knowledge is, in my opinion, criminal.