Hillary Cries

[Flynn]

Everyone portrays her as a stone-cold bitch. I don't think she is. How many women in this world really are, when you get down to it? Yet men can behave like she does, and they're achievers with an eye for upper management.
I suppose I'm saying I'm on the fence about the crying but felt it was a little cringe-worthy. To that end, I feel more inclined to vote for her. She's playing the game, and I respect that. It takes a lot of balls to do what she's doing (much love to Geraldine Ferrera, girl).

I agree.

I don't understand people who hate her.

Dislike her positions, call her "too liberal for me" but putting her in the "bitch" category is pathetic. It lacks imagination.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Hillary Cries

I agree, Flynn.

I also think it was a sincere moment but that it will probably be just another thing for people to pick on. For so long she has been perceived as the cold-hearted bitch (my dad's words)....then she cries and it is either 'contrived' or she's an "overly emotional woman who can't stand the heat".

I can understand not supporting her based on her politics or positions on the issues....but the vitriol? I don't get that.

Kris

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Hillary Cries

Thought I'd pass this one on too:

Hecklers Want Clinton to Iron Their Shirts
Posted by Fernando Suarez

(CBS)
From CBS News' Fernando Suarez

SALEM, N.H. -- Hillary Clinton was nearly 20 minutes into her speech tonight in Salem when a man stood up with a sign that read "Iron My Shirt" and started chanting the phrase. Then a few seconds later another man stood up with the same sign and was yelling it.

"Oooh, the remnants of sexism are alive," Clinton responded.

“If there’s anyone left in the auditorium who wants to learn how to iron his own shirt?” Clinton asked as the crowd laughed.

As the men were being escorted out of the auditorium Clinton said, “I think, as this has been abundantly demonstrated, I’m also running to break through the highest and hardest glass ceiling.”

Of note: the sign, which is intended as a jab to women, is not original.

Back in 2003, when protestors picketed the Augusta National Golf Club, the famous men-only home of the Masters tournament, counter-protestors held up signs which read: "Iron My Shirt" and "Make My Dinner."

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Hillary Cries

She's didn't actually cry. Wet eyes but no descending tears. Her voice cracked several times. (Without passing judgment on why there is a different expectation for each gender, I would think that it is safe to say that her episode was definitely not a situation that a male candidate could have survived without looking like a total weinie, given why she got emotional.) She looks completely exhausted (hard to blame her--the last few months must have been incredibly grueling).

I think the emotionalism was 100% genuine. It seemed deeply felt to me. I don't think she faked it, as some news commentators are suggesting. What could be her possible advantage in doing that? Being on the emotion edge only makes her look run-down, less in control, and subject to weakness in the face of grinding adversity rather than strength. She'd already got the whole "female"/"weaker sex" thing (whether a valid concern or not) going against her. Why look like a total girl? While some people might look at that and sympathize, many more will go, "If you think New Hampshire is high-pressure, try a face off with Iran, lady."

That being said, though, I don't think WHY she was emotional was particularly admirable. She wasn't emotional for the country. She was emotional for herself. When I listened to the remarks in their entirety, it impressed me that her emotionalism is completely narcisistic. She isn't frustrated with tehe direction of the country; she's frustrated that this perceived upstart Obama is coming in and wrecking that to which she believes she is entitled. I think the emotionalism arising from her frustration, exhaustion, and demoralization is completely genuine. And I feel sorry for her personally because this must be deeply, profoundly disappointing. But I don't think she is truly desperate for the country; I think she is truly desperate for herself.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Hillary Cries

Thought I'd pass this one on too:

Hecklers Want Clinton to Iron Their Shirts
Posted by Fernando Suarez

(CBS)
From CBS News' Fernando Suarez

SALEM, N.H. -- Hillary Clinton was nearly 20 minutes into her speech tonight in Salem when a man stood up with a sign that read "Iron My Shirt" and started chanting the phrase. Then a few seconds later another man stood up with the same sign and was yelling it.

"Oooh, the remnants of sexism are alive," Clinton responded.

“If there’s anyone left in the auditorium who wants to learn how to iron his own shirt?” Clinton asked as the crowd laughed.

As the men were being escorted out of the auditorium Clinton said, “I think, as this has been abundantly demonstrated, I’m also running to break through the highest and hardest glass ceiling.”

Of note: the sign, which is intended as a jab to women, is not original.

Back in 2003, when protestors picketed the Augusta National Golf Club, the famous men-only home of the Masters tournament, counter-protestors held up signs which read: "Iron My Shirt" and "Make My Dinner."

What a bunch of idiots. Bet there's not a US Senator or Yale Law grad in the bunch.

Re: Hillary Cries

A couple of thoughts:

I don't think it was fake. I think she's probably ticked she did it.

I don't think it was narcissistic in the "look at how hard it is for me" way. I think (just as in medicine) running for president requires a certian amount of "I'm the person to fix it" narcissism. I think she's exhasuted. I think she genuinely believes she's the best person to lead the country out of our current mess. Thinking back on where our country was globally 8 years ago compared to now makes me want to cry, too.

[Momo]

Re: Hillary Cries

Thinking back on where our country was globally 8 years ago compared to now makes me want to cry, too.

ITA

[Rapunzel]

Re: Hillary Cries

I haven't seen the clip but emotion is a funny thing: sometimes it works in your favor and sometimes it doesn't.

I think it works in your favor if your audience or those later viewing your emotion agree or sympathize with you. Those who do not "feel your pain" are going to find your pain somewhat...faked.

So, I cannot comment on this episode in Days of Our Presidential Election... but I can remember other (male) politicians showing emotion.

[Auspicious]

Re: Hillary Cries

but I can remember other (male) politicians showing emotion.

I agree. Isn't Bill Clinton known for this? ("I feel your pain.") Remember when those people, including someone on his staff (Brown?), died in a plane crash, and Bill got verklempt speaking at the funeral, and there was a whole discussion by the talking heads about how American Manhood had changed and boomers were different than the WWII generation etc etc etc.

I think her emotion was real--it would take a good level of control over one's voice and demeanor to fake being choked up, and if H. Clinton had that kind of control, she'd be a much better and less stiff public speaker. If she's that good an actress, then she should put some of that skill toward being warmer in her speech-giving.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Hillary Cries

For some reason I recall Reagan giving a speech with tears in his eyes (not crying - but looking teary-eyed). Am I just imagining that memory because I cannot recall what it was in reference to for the life of me...?

[Sheherezade]

Re: Hillary Cries

Challenger explosion, maybe? Or is my time line screwed up?

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Hillary Cries

Challenger explosion, maybe? Or is my time line screwed up?

You're correct. He was emotional (but not crying) during his eulogy of the Challenger astronauts (when he said the famous memoralization, "they slipped the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God"--which, I think, was actually a quote from a poem--I don't know--but Peggy Noonan, Reagan's speechwrite, is outrageously well-read). And, like Hillary's emotionalism of yesterday, it appears heart-felt and genuine.

But, in contrast to Hillary's emotionalism, I would suggest that Reagan's emotionalism was appropriate: the country was grieving for dead heroes. It was about the loss of life, a loss bigger and more meaningful than the loss of a personal opportunity of the speaker. It wasn't all about him. To suggest that Hillary's remarks were really about her "general, broad pain" for the country (that the whole country would suffer should she not be elected, and she was crying for that) is audacity beyond limits and shows an incredible lack of respect for her fellow Democrats. I think her tears were about her own frustration with not receiving that to which she had come to believe she was entitled--obvious coronation as the candidate.

[houseelf]

Re: Hillary Cries

I remember an article about Bill Clinton when he comforted a teenager over the loss of her home to a midwest tornado during his tenure in president. For some obscure reason, I remember the reporter clearly remarking that there were "genuine tears" in Mr. Clinton's eyes. (I will refrain from any untoward comments about why those tears were in his eyes, but regardless of politics, Hilary is held to a different standard).

Kelly

[Rapunzel]

Re: Hillary Cries

OK, I was first taught public speaking at the age of, oh, about eight years old (yes, it is a mormon thing ). I have been regularly speaking in public ever since including several intense years of public, competitive debate with a couple of hard-nosed VERY good coaches. I've done exercises, I've learned about body language, I know how to change my voice appropriately.

Hillary Clinton was NOT actually crying or "almost" crying in that footage. I just watched it. She was using effective body language to communicate that she was "emotional" to her audience - she wasn't actually being emotional.

Mrs. Clinton has a set of superb speaking coaches - including her husband. She has been taught and is doing good at communicating emotion in her public speaking without actually being emotional (with the latter involving a certain amount of loss of control that a public speaker never, EVER wants to have).

My guess is her focus groups showed that she would do better showing a more "personal" side to her - less of a slick, packaged product.

Edited to add: Things to watch for -
True loss of control (ie truly being emotional) includes the chin quivering, actual moisture gathering in the corners of the eyes, fair persons (such as Mrs.Clinton) have their skin actually get a bit blotchy, the tip of the nose reddens, the voice shakes and modulates uncontrollably.
Calculated 'show' of emotion includes brining the hand to the face, making the voice much softer, looking up or looking down disproportionately in order to make the viewer think of 'holding back' tears.

Clinton was doing all of the latter and none of the former. She's good.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Hillary Cries

I think you'll see what you're looking for. Don't we all....

kris