NH called for Clinton

[PrincessFiona]

The AP just called it, but I have a feeling that the two college towns are going to jump up and rid her of her lead. Still....I can't believe that she has held onto the lead all night after the questions about whether she would lose by single or double digits.

Kris

[Rapunzel]

Re: NH called for Clinton

It's close - 4 point difference between the top dems and 5 point difference between the top pubs at this point.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: NH called for Clinton

CNN called it too. It was a good race, and I think the dems have a lot to be proud of. An African American man won in Iowa and a woman won in NH...what could be better than that....

It gives me hope for our country.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: NH called for Clinton

Yes.

Notice that I'm not a huge fan of obama, but I am thrilled that the democratic party has a serious african american candidate and a serious woman candidate (and the democrats were also the first to have a female candidate for vice president too....)

Who are the republicans running? grumpy white men.

This country is made up of 50% women....how many female senators are there? 16 out of 100? How many african american senators are there?

If Condaleeza Rice ran for president, I don't know that I would necesarily vote for her, but I would celebrate her candidacy. I might vote for her. If McCain wins the republican nomination, I just might vote for him.

Re: NH called for Clinton

Hmmnnn... I guess I can kind of see what you mean about how it's nice to see. But, suprise suprise , I personally can't get behind viewing "progress" by how candidate's racial / gender characteristics match up with demographics of the general population of a nation.

It kind of sets up persons who choose to cast their votes (regardless of the voter's reasoning) against a minority or woman candidate as "enemies of progress". I.E. if Obama wouldn't have carried Iowa but let's say he'd been close to HC, pundits and everyone else would've been saying or at least strongly implying that the entire state (read white, rural) wasn't "ready" for a black president. Then, of course the underlying implication of that, whether spoken or not, is that those folks (or at least many of them) are ipso facto racists.

But I get it that if we traveled back in time to the not so distant past, the notion of an Obama or an HC even getting "legs" enough to go this far was basically impossible.

But women and minorities have been governors, senators, etc. for a while now. And there's been nothing stopping people from running and winning -- except for votes. And then we're back to how can people say with any certainty that when candidates in those camps don't win, that it can explained at all or even partially by their "identities"? :huh:

[PrincessFiona]

Re: NH called for Clinton

So Kevin,

If only 1 out of 100 senators were men and all presidential candidates were always...always women...you'd be ok with that and feel like your needs, your life, and your issues were represented? Be honest....

Kris

[Flynn]

Re: NH called for Clinton

I've never voted Republican but if Condi had done what Hillary did last night I would have gotten a HUGE kick out of it.

[Rapunzel]

Re: NH called for Clinton

Well, in the end Clinton and Obama tied for delegates and Romney still leads by a pretty good bit on number of delegates over the other Republican contenders.

In other words, these "victories" on both sides were a bit hollow.

As far as affirmitive action in politics: I don't feel a candidate needs a certain skin color or gender in order to represent my views. So, yes, if all of the members of Congress were representing their voters' views then it truly wouldn't matter if they were all white men. And, let's not pretend that a woman or someone who isn't white will be more virtuous when it comes to the dirtiness that is politics.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: NH called for Clinton

CNN called it too. It was a good race, and I think the dems have a lot to be proud of. An African American man won in Iowa and a woman won in NH...what could be better than that....

It gives me hope for our country.

Would you feel the same way if Condi ran on the republican ticket and won both states?

Man, would I love it if Condi ran for national office. Talk about a girl crush happening here. I just think the world of her.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: NH called for Clinton

The reason I brought up the Condi question (which you answered so eliquently, BTW ) is because when Pelosi or insert other dem woman, black, etc., became Speaker the press, women, and a host of others were all over the place saying how wonderful this is what a great step for women blah, blah ,blah.

It's just like when NOW raves about the accomplishments of certain women in politics. It's only the women THEY like, the ones who share THEIR views, the ones THEY think are "achieving things for women." It's not about women--it's about THEIR women. There is the sense that, for example, Republican or conservative female politicians are viewed as not "really for women" so their accomplishments are worth heralding. NOW isn't for all women, as the moniker suggests. It's for certain, very particular viewpoints on how the world should be, to best serve women pursuant to THEIR understanding of what would be in women's best interests. And people who don't endorse their views are perceived as "anti-women"...even if they are female.

[Liz2254]

Re: NH called for Clinton

Did anyone else catch this in the Times? I thought it was really interesting... and got into a discussion with an older friend of mine who voiced some concern about my generation of women taking feminism for granted. So true.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/op...08steinem.html

Re: NH called for Clinton

It actually bothers me that the press are so focused on that one "moment" and many people are saying that's why Clinton eeked out a win last night.

To Tara's point, I've actually given thought to what I would do if Condeleeza Rice won. I'm with Kris in the "I would celebrate her candicacy" camp. I don't think I could ever, ever vote for her, if her politics are truly as much of a rubber-stamp of GWB's as it seems. But I do think she's truly an amazing woman.

As far as the whole "Hillary got there on Bill's coat tails" (which I know is from another thread - we've got about 3 running on this topic), I think that is bunk. He likely would not have gotten where he did if she wasn't on his team.

FWIW, I do say "when we were in residency". I'd never say "When I diagnosed that cancer" b/c I didn't do it. But we, as a family, were in residency. When Clinton refers to things "they" did in the white house, I have no doubt she was involved in the process. She tried to re-define the role of First Lady, and got a whole lot of flack for it.

The comparision to a scenario where Laura Bush announces she's running for president is apples to oranges, even though they're both First Ladies (former in Clinton's case). Mrs. Clinton is a lawyer, a senator (who won a very convincing re-election). incredibly smart, a Yale Law grad (who did not get in on a family legacy). Mrs. Bush was a librarian in an elementary school. She may be smart - but she doesn't generally open her mouth to share anything but an echo of her husband's opinion - so I can't really make that determination on my own. I don't begrudge Mrs. Bush for the role she's chosen to play, but I think an outraged reaction at such an announcement from her would be vaild.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: NH called for Clinton

The comparision to a scenario where Laura Bush announces she's running for president is apples to oranges, even though they're both First Ladies (former in Clinton's case). Mrs. Clinton is a lawyer, a senator (who won a very convincing re-election). incredibly smart, a Yale Law grad (who did not get in on a family legacy). Mrs. Bush was a librarian in an elementary school. She may be smart - but she doesn't generally open her mouth to share anything but an echo of her husband's opinion - so I can't really make that determination on my own. I don't begrudge Mrs. Bush for the role she's chosen to play, but I think an outraged reaction at such an announcement from her would be vaild.

While I can't imagine that she would ever run for political office, I am not sure that it is fair to assume that she's not bright enough (or not as bright as HRC). Laura Bush is just very, very classically Southern in her demeanor (lady-like, demur, understated), and I think this gets translated by casual observers as meaning she is less intelligent than, for example, HRC. Laura Bush holds a Masters in Library Science from the University of Texas at Austin, which has one of the nation's premiere programs, and she focused on teaching remedial reading acquisition skills in disadvantaged public schools. I've been both a reading teacher in public schools and a lawyer, and I can attest that her MLS degree does not indicate an inferior intellect to HRC. (As a side note, I also know a LOT of lawyers from Yale--believe me, having that degree alone does NOT indicate that HRC is intelligent). Mrs. Bush was quite devoted to her career (and has been a huge advocate of improving literacy while serving as First Lady). It may be a bit harsh to assume that she did not have the brains to do what HRC did. She had different goals.

Also, I don't think she is simply a quiet rubber-stamp of her husband. She's actually been a bit of a thorn in his side, recently. She is active in advocating for victims of the human rights violations committed by the Myanmar government, and has been speaking out about it quite a bit lately.

Re: NH called for Clinton

It may be a bit harsh to assume that she did not have the brains to do what HRC did. She had different goals.

I didn't say she's not smart. I said she may be, but I've never heard her speak in more than a morning t.v. interview, and her professional life was as a librarian. Not exactly presidential resume material. She's not running. It was suggested in another post that HRC wasn't any more qualified to be President than Laura Bush. Whether or not Mrs. Bush has the smarts to have done what HRC has, she hasn't taken that path and hasn't had the experiences that HRC has had.

I think that as a stay at home mom, I'd be one of the last people to infer that just because Laura Bush chose to do that she's stupid.

[Flynn]

Re: NH called for Clinton

The fact is Hillary has a chance to be the next president AND is a woman.

This is huge.
This is history.
My grandchildren will ask about this election someday. How did I feel? What was it like? Why did it take so long?

I may disagree with everything Condi stand for (I'm just guessing here -- I'd have to educate myself better with her politics if she ever ran) BUT like Kris said I would celebrate her candidacy.

Why? This has never happened and it's about damn time.

Dislike Hillary's politics until you're blue in the face.

We're living through an election that will be talked about for generations to come.

It's exciting.