McCain

[PrincessFiona]

I think...I liked him better in theory. I have tried watching him and getting excited about his campaign, but he seems so grouchy. Is it just me? I have always said that if he was on the ticket and became the nominee that I would give him serious consideration...I'm trying...

[Rapunzel]

Re: McCain

Nope, I will not vote for him if he gets the nomination.

It will be the first time I have not voted Republican.

He is pretty grouchy - although he's kept his famously terrible temper under control with this campaign. It was a low blow lying about Romney and the whole "timetable" thing in the 11th hour before the Florida vote so Romney didn't have time to respond. To the media's credit they have been calling McCain on the lying (I'm very surprised about this, actually).

Back in the thread Flynn started on why you choose a candidate McCain violates #1 and #2 for me hands down. Too many scandals, too bad of a temper, too many departures from a conservative stance, too long in Washington (has the guy ever had a real job?).

Re: McCain

Actually, I think Romney comes off more ruffled and less cool than McCain, the supermarket incident comes to mind that was on air about a month or so ago. But my disclaimer is that I did miss the Republican debate this week. McCain clearly is the worst at public speaking. He does not come off smooth at all, and it's almost he is reading verbatum (sp?) something he wrote earlier. But...he still feels more honest to me than Romney. I really can't get past the issues Romney has changed positions on, it bugs me a lot.

Anyway really, I don't think you're wrong Kris. I think McCain is a guy who was good intentions, was a vet, and just happened to become a politician. Others like Romney, Obama and Clinton seemed to be born politicians.

[Rapunzel]

Re: McCain

Well, as far as changing how you fell about important subjects over your lifetime...Reagan was a Democrat before he was a Republican. Romney's change of heart on abortion is nothing compared to changing an entire party about-face.

McCain is a professional, life-long politician. He lives and breathes politics and has since just before he left his wife to marry his lover, Cindy (when he was a military political liason). He happened to become a politician via his lover/new wife's father. He's been in politics as long as I've been alive. (Contrast that with Romney who has been in politics since I've been in Massachusetts - a little over five years altogether). I'm not sure how long Obama was an Illinois senator (he is an attorney by trade).

It is a puzzlement as to how anyone ever saw anything in the guy. He got into the Naval Academy because of his father's position - he was constantly nearly flunking out (graduated third to last of his class) and he almost got kicked out for bad behavior (I would guess his father's sway saved him then as well). If anything, he's a whole lot like Bush in his early years - a screw up who partied hard and had his father clean up his messes.

Sure he's a war hero. But, there are many war heroes (my grandfather was one as well) and I don't count that as a reason to vote for someone. It's a reason to thank them (for serving their country). But, it doesn't mean they are any good at leadership or even a good person period. Vietnam vets actually felt McCain had betrayed them when he and John Kerry concluded that there were no POW's left in Vietnam. He was called "The Manchurian Candidate" back then and people were skeptical of his motives.

Since I'm on my list of things that annoy me about McCain: Every single time the guy gets hit with a question he cannot answer he falls into "name-drop" mode. He just starts listing famous or respected persons as if that is a real answer to a real question! Gaah! He did that with Ron Paul's question a couple of debates ago and since he had no clue as to the economic advisory committee to which Paul was referring he just started name dropping. And, it seems to be occurring with more frequency as we go along.

AND, I don't know why in the world anyone could think McCain could beat Obama OR Clinton. He just said recently that we might be in Iraq for another hundred years if he's in charge. And, it's very clear that the popular position right now is to have some sort of plan in place for removal of our troops. There is disagreement over whether that should be a swift or gradual removal - but he's the only one pledging US occupation of Iraq for the next century. I mean, Clinton or Obama could cream this guy on that alone.

The fact is that the Democrats have not one but TWO popular, difficult opponents. Obama correctly pointed out that McCain has agreed with the both of these Democrats on the majority of major issues. There is nothing to really distinguish the guy (McCain) from the Democrats, really. So, how in the world is HE going to beat them?

Obama doesn't have any scandals to speak of. McCain does and has been in danger of getting kicked out of the Senate before (and, not for being a "maverick" but, rather, for being unethical and possibly breaking a few laws). I look at the two candidates (Obama and McCain) and I see that Obama is a much more attractive candidate with a lot less to weigh him down with a negative past.

I still think McCain is a Democrat's dream opponent.
And, I think I dislike him as much as I do BILL Clinton.

Re: McCain

Well we shall have to agree to disagree

He lives and breathes politics and has since just before he left his wife to marry his lover, Cindy (when he was a military political liason). He happened to become a politician via his lover/new wife's father

To me, this just seems like gossip, and hard to prove as true sinister motives.

I agree McCain is very much name dropping, I too find this annoying.

The 100 yr war comment was superbly stupid.

And as far as Romney not changing a lot, well the Log Cabin Republicans don't exactly feel that way. But hey, he's a Mormon, you like him, want to support him, I don't feel like I have to change your mind on the guy. It's your vote. But for ME, I don't exactly feel warm and fuzy about him. I would probably vote for the Dem if Romney gets the ticket (well...unless it's HRC) But I'm still hashing all this out as the election process moves on.

[rainbabies]

Re: McCain

im not political, so forgive my stupid sounding comment.

there is something about mccain i dont like. he seems mean, or something. :huh: dh thinks he deserves to be pres. :huh: why, i say?

(if obama gets the dem ticket, i will prolly vote for him) dont tell my dh

[Rapunzel]

Re: McCain

Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree on McCain and Romney.

It's just - I don't have such strongly negative feelings about almost any of the other candidates. I actually dislike McCain waaay more than I dislike Hillary Clinton.

Good grief. If we were voting on personality alone (rather than issues) I don't know if I'd be voting for a Republican or a Democrat at this point.

This is the wildest presidential election I've ever seen.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: McCain

McCain is popular among those who were in vietnam....(I'm generalizing based on some things that my mom said). Even though my mom doesn't really....like him anymore or many of the things that he stands for, she thinks she is going to vote for him out of .... respect for him.

My mom and dad both served in Vietnam and it is a very emotional issue for them. About 20 years ago, my mom was also invited to a small dinner where McCain was an honored guest...she sat at the table with him and his wife and remembers being in awe of him.

That....is what she bases her vote on...at least partially. For her, it is a toss up between McCain and Clinton....with McCain leading for that reason.

Re: McCain

It's funny that everyone judges him so harshly on his persona. Last night my friend told me he seems so kind. It kind of cracked me up. But I have enjoyed him when he's appeared on The Daily Show.

His foreign policy is where I cannot stomach him. In all other things he seems more moderate (for a republican) ... but between his "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" comment, and now his 100 years comment ... I just can't go there.

Re: McCain

bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" comment

Hummm I missed this one, when did he say that? Oh and that is even more suberbly stupid.

Re: McCain

I think it was in the fall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg

[Rapunzel]

Re: McCain

McCain is popular among those who were in vietnam....(I'm generalizing based on some things that my mom said). Even though my mom doesn't really....like him anymore or many of the things that he stands for, she thinks she is going to vote for him out of .... respect for him.

My mom and dad both served in Vietnam and it is a very emotional issue for them. About 20 years ago, my mom was also invited to a small dinner where McCain was an honored guest...she sat at the table with him and his wife and remembers being in awe of him.

That....is what she bases her vote on...at least partially. For her, it is a toss up between McCain and Clinton....with McCain leading for that reason.

That is a perfect example of the "cult of personality" - where people are voting for McCain not on issues or him as a person but, rather, because of imagery they have in their mind of him based not on reality as much as their own personal emotions which they project on the person in question.

Of those people who vote for him based on the above emotion about him having served in Vietnam, I wonder how many of those people are OK with him then coming home and then cheating on and subsequently divorcing the wife who waited for him all of that time he was away?

I've learned that a person can serve in the military and do very good things while serving in the military and still be an absolute monster in his/her personal life and/or a terrible leader.

This (quoted above) also makes my point that McCain is, in reality, a Democrat which will not help him if he is running against another Democrat. It will be like a continuation of the Democrat primaries. And, those voting only on emotion and/or cult of personality will most likely pick the first woman or first black president of the U.S. over McCain when it is cult of personality vs. cult of personality.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: McCain

I don't get the impression he's grouchy. I get the impression that he has a low threshold for stupidity or double-talk. And if you have this problem (not being able to cover up exasperation and irritation with stupidity or double-talk), it's better than it comes out as grouchiness than as condescension, I guess--at least if you want to get elected. Nobody likes someone who comes off as being high-and-mighty and morally/intellectually superior, especially without justification. Hence, John Kerry's biggest problem.

And I think McCain really, really dislikes Mitt Romney. Deeply.

After his Florida primary victory, I saw for the first time in McCain humility. Before that, I'd gotten the impression that he was a bit of an arrogant cowboy. His speech seemed genuinely humbled by the win.

I think they are all really tired, though. Obama has attributed a couple of slip-ups during speeches to being tired and Giuliani just seemed completely exhausted in the last two days before the Florida vote. I even felt a little sorry for Hillary Clinton on Fox News Sunday this morning. She was her usual cackly (that laugh she has--which appears to be authentic...yikes, I think both sides of the aisle can agree), spirited self. Huckabee seems to be the most spunky and invigorated to me. But then, I've heard that right before you die, your brain can release hormones or something that make you feel pleasant (heading to the light, well-being, etc.). And I think it's pretty clear that he's headed toward the coffin on this Presidential primary.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: McCain

McCain is popular among those who were in vietnam....(I'm generalizing based on some things that my mom said). Even though my mom doesn't really....like him anymore or many of the things that he stands for, she thinks she is going to vote for him out of .... respect for him.

My mom and dad both served in Vietnam and it is a very emotional issue for them. About 20 years ago, my mom was also invited to a small dinner where McCain was an honored guest...she sat at the table with him and his wife and remembers being in awe of him.

That....is what she bases her vote on...at least partially. For her, it is a toss up between McCain and Clinton....with McCain leading for that reason.

That is a perfect example of the "cult of personality" - where people are voting for McCain not on issues or him as a person but, rather, because of imagery they have in their mind of him based not on reality as much as their own personal emotions which they project on the person in question.

There's a lot of that going around this election, I think. Giuliani and Obama also attracted tons of people who have no idea what they really stand for...they just vote on a sound bite: "9-11!" "Change!" and a lot of fluffy filler and generic vaguery. Or "I just like him..." or "he'd be different and we need different." ??? I like Will Ferrell and he's definitely different, but that doesn't explain why I'd vote for him...

I am fascinated by people who are torn between Obama and McCain. If you are truly torn between these two, you must have no idea what either stands for. There is no way anyone could be genuinely intellectually torn between these two. They stand for completely and totally different positions on where the country should be headed and what the role of the federal government should be. I think what people who are torn between these two are really saying is, "I want someone different and outside-the-box. But I don't really know, other than that, what type of 'change' I want. Just change. So I am torn between the two guys who represent the least conventional of their parties among the candidates."

But my personal favorite reason to vote for a candidate that I've heard--by some girl interviewed on CNN, who didn't even look old enough to vote: "He's so hot. He'd make a great, you know, uh, states guy...statesman." Here's a hint, dear: you're not helping his cause.

(So far, I've heard that only about Obama, but there's no accounting for some people's taste, so I guess that could play for another candidate, too.)

[Rapunzel]

Re: McCain

McCain does hate Romney. I just read an article on yahoo discussing how the various candidates' (McCain, Huckabee, Guiliani) staff email each other in order to try to beat Romney. Huckabee, after one of the debates told McCain, "Now it's your turn to beat him." It's like a schoolyard fight and McCain is in charge of the gang beating up the nerd.

It's unreal. And, knowing Romney via friends and coworkers of his I can say that a man who has such a visceral hatred of this person who is a very nice guy, who is kind and loving and totally faithful as a husband and father, is NOT someone I want in charge of my country.

To a person every individual I know who personally knows and interacts with or used to interact with Romney describes him pretty much the same way. I honestly probably wouldn't notice this as much if I had not moved up here to Massachusetts and had the experiences that I have had. But, I am starting to see the humanity in all of these people based on my knowledge of one candidate's humanity and McCain's behavior - inhumanity - takes my breath away. It is so easy for us on the outside to see politicians as almost cartoon characters - not real people (I have come to the realization that I have done that as well in the past with people like Hillary Clinton). And, in a way, they are "products". But, for so many of them to decide to treat one other candidate as subhuman is just boggling.

I don't mind someone beating Romney for the Republican nomination - even though I'm rooting for him and I think he'd be a very good president - I just want him to be beaten by someone who gets along with nice, decent people. McCain doesn't seem to be able to do that. I don't know if McCain and company have just been power hungry and starved for too long and have lost their humanity because of it or if it's for some other reason. But, I have seen much more humane behavior among the Democrats during this campaign season than I have with the Republican side.