McCain

[Rapunzel]

Re: McCain

I am fascinated by people who are torn between Obama and McCain. If you are truly torn between these two, you must have no idea what either stands for. There is no way anyone could be genuinely intellectually torn between these two. They stand for completely and totally different positions on where the country should be headed and what the role of the federal government should be. I think what people who are torn between these two are really saying is, "I want someone different and outside-the-box. But I don't really know, other than that, what type of 'change' I want. Just change. So I am torn between the two guys who represent the least conventional of their parties among the candidates."

I would definitely buy McCain being called a JFK Democrat. But, is Obama really that outside of the mainstream of his party? I really am curious....

Otherwise, I agree with you. I also find it weird for someone to say, "I can't decide between McCain and Obama."

Re: McCain

The main similarity I see is the willingness to work across the aisle.

[Rapunzel]

Re: McCain

The main similarity I see is the willingness to work across the aisle.

I did not know that about Obama. Who has he worked with on the conservative side and on what particular issues/legislation? Has it been on little things (comparatively) such as flag burning or big things like abortion?

I know McCain is known for cosponsoring legislation with liberal Democrats as well as siding with Democrats in votes. But, is Obama really known for doing likewise (but, switch Dem with Republican, of course)?

Re: McCain

From his US Senate page 12/05:

He chose a half-dozen or so mostly noncontroversial topics on which to carve a niche. And on those issues - which range from the government's preparedness for avian flu to destroying weapons stockpiles in the former Soviet Union - he has mostly crafted a moderate stance, often working closely with a Republican colleague.

He went to Russia and the Ukraine with Sen. Richard Lugar, R- Ind., to inspect weapons storage sites. He teamed up with Sen. Mel Martinez, R-Fla., to offer a "sensible center" proposal on the divisive issue of immigration reform.

And he joined Sen. Coburn on Katrina, where he generated considerable attention by visiting New Orleans and wading into the debate over whether the slow response was driven by racism. (That accusation, he said at the time, was "too simplistic," although he took the Bush administration to task more broadly for its policies toward the poor.)

Since then, Obama has focused his follow-up efforts on being a government watchdog as the Federal Emergency Management Agency doles out billions of dollars in reconstruction money.

He and Coburn called for a chief financial officer to oversee all the spending. Their proposal has stalled, but the two senators have continued to pound on FEMA in public and private on the issue.

Obama said his interests converged with those of Coburn, the conservative Republican. "Tom and I may not agree how money should always be spent, but we can agree that money should not be wasted," he said. "When you're allocating huge sums of money that's vanishing in no-bid contracts, that's hurting poor people as well as the taxpayers."

Obama's approach has mostly earned him rave reviews - from Republicans and Democrats alike - who say he is an open-minded, deliberative lawmaker.

Coburn called him a "phenomenal young man who will go to great heights," while Martinez said he hasn't seemed "dogmatic" or "ideologically driven" on any issue.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. and a frequent maverick within the GOP, said: "He's very impressive, he's thoughtful, he's centrist."

From http://www.barackobama.com

In the U.S. Senate, he has focused on tackling the challenges of a globalized, 21st century world with fresh thinking and a politics that no longer settles for the lowest common denominator. His first law was passed with Republican Tom Coburn, a measure to rebuild trust in government by allowing every American to go online and see how and where every dime of their tax dollars is spent. He has also been the lead voice in championing ethics reform that would root out Jack Abramoff-style corruption in Congress.

As a member of the Veterans' Affairs Committee, Senator Obama has fought to help Illinois veterans get the disability pay they were promised, while working to prepare the VA for the return of the thousands of veterans who will need care after Iraq and Afghanistan. Recognizing the terrorist threat posed by weapons of mass destruction, he traveled to Russia with Republican Dick Lugar to begin a new generation of non-proliferation efforts designed to find and secure deadly weapons around the world. And knowing the threat we face to our economy and our security from America's addiction to oil, he's working to bring auto companies, unions, farmers, businesses and politicians of both parties together to promote the greater use of alternative fuels and higher fuel standards in our cars.

I honestly believe that extreme views to one side or the other will only lead to more gridlock. Look what has happened with Bush over the last 8 years. If ANYONE was going to manage to overturn Roe V. Wade - he would have done it. For all of the campaigning on the topic of abortion --- as it's been going on for 30 years --- it hasn't changed. Someone who is willing to listen, consider, and work with people from both groups gives us the best chance to move forward in this country.

[Rapunzel]

Re: McCain

Roe v Wade is only going to get overturned by another SCOTUS ruling. I think any and all legislation short of a constitutional ammendment protecting life en utero will get shot down.

So, he's not intentionally polarizing (Obama, that is) when it comes to the little things. It's just the major things I would most likely disagree with him on....

[Rapunzel]

Re: McCain

I honestly believe that extreme views to one side or the other will only lead to more gridlock. Look what has happened with Bush over the last 8 years. If ANYONE was going to manage to overturn Roe V. Wade - he would have done it. For all of the campaigning on the topic of abortion --- as it's been going on for 30 years --- it hasn't changed. Someone who is willing to listen, consider, and work with people from both groups gives us the best chance to move forward in this country.

But, it depends on what you mean by "move forward". I think socialized medicine is not a move forward. I also think that moving forward means getting rid of a lot of double taxing and crippling over-taxation - which necessitates getting rid of a lot of socialist programs.

Honestly, if a president is elected who wants to move in the direction of socialism I want a hole heck of a lot of gridlock to stop him/her. In fact, the checks and balances in our Federal government were designed to cause gridlock in order to limit government (Federalist papers).

Re: McCain

Checks and balances haven't done a whole lot to stop Bush! He seems to think he's above the law, with all of his "executive orders" or whatever they're called. I'd rather a President who is more moderate and will work within the framework of our system, checks and balances and all.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: McCain

But, is Obama really that outside of the mainstream of his party? I really am curious....

Obama has consistently been rated by nonpartisan groups as one of the most liberal members of the Senate.

Also...

sounds like a couple of folks are interested on his known positions/comments and votes on the abortion issue (from http://www.ontheissues.org):

Voted against banning partial birth abortion. (Oct 2007)
Stem cells hold promise to cure 70 major diseases. (Aug 2007)
Trust women to make own decisions on partial-birth abortion. (Apr 2007)
Extend presumption of good faith to abortion protesters. (Oct 2006)
Constitution is a living document; no strict constructionism. (Oct 2006)
Pass the Stem Cell Research Bill. (Jun 2004)
Protect a woman's right to choose. (May 2004)
Supports Roe v. Wade. (Jul 1998)
Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)
laws. (Jul 1998)

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: McCain

I think it's obvious that if abortion (and opposition to it) is your most important issue, you aren't going to vote for a Democrat for president. I can't imagine any of those stats are that different from Clinton's, or Kerry's, or Gore's, Abigail.

I was just giving the info. I wasn't offering it as a suggestion that Obama's position on abortion alone makes him super-liberal. The reason I selected the abortion issue was because other folks had been talking about it.

Frankly, I tend to think that abortion is abused as a short-hand for denoting someone as "liberal" or "conservative." I realize that it is THE ONLY thing people really mean when they are talking about the credentials of federal court nominees. However, I think that is pretty myopic, and can be very misleading, if what you're interested in evaluating is someone's overall political persuasion.

Not all liberal Democrats are pro-choice. Harry Reid, for one, the leader of the House. But then, that also disqualifies him from being a Democrat Presidential candidate, despite the fact that he otherwise is a pretty well-respected liberal leader.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: McCain

Yeah, I'm from Nevada. Reid has done very well at holding onto a Dem seat in a state that leans conservative, and I suspect his position on abortion helps (though probably not as much as his leadership position, these days).

But for presidential candidates, and I think this is true on both sides (ex: Giuliani), they pretty much always follow the party line on this issue.

Yep. Giuliani is pretty conservative on fiscal matters but is positioned like Reid...always an outsider in his own party on the abortion issue.

But neither is nearly the misfit that Leiberman is! Such a good man, but such an island unto himself.

[Rapunzel]

Re: McCain

My mom told me tonight why she has a problem with this "willing to cross the aisle" argument McCain supporters give. It's because it is always a one-way compromise. In other words, it's always McCain pairing with a "liberal" member of the Senate to do a more "liberal" piece of legislation. Has there ever been a piece of legislation that a Democrat has partnered with McCain on that was considered "conservative" and/or had the open support of nearly all of the Republican senators?

I think I agree with her that "willing to cross the aisle" is a veiled way of saying, "will agree to whatever liberal policy his 'partner' of the moment supports".

I had not thought about that aspect in such succinct terms before. But, I think I agree with her....

[Momo]

Re: McCain

As of Sat morning the Mccain version/ video had been viewed @ leat 1,000,000 times!

The Obama Yes we can video had been viewed over 4,000,000!!

HRc's campaign dropped the ball on this medium.

The original

Well, now everytime I see McCain, I think of this.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=yjbknhX383A

[Rapunzel]

Re: McCain

OK, I have decided: If my primary motivation concerns who gets to nominate potentially three Supreme Court justices I will definitely vote for McCain.

I will hold my nose if I do this. But, it will be preferable to the alternative.

My true desire is to write in Romney. But, even Romney has pointed out that this is going to be a president who will have a very large impact on another branch of government - the Justice department - for many, many years to come potentially. Therefore, it's much more preferable that McCain be the said nominator than either of the Democrat choices.