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Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

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  • Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

    disclaimer: not meant as a way to debate the candidates...just this particular issue. This particular article explains why the dems may just have lost me. It isn't about Obama coming out ahead...at one point, I was more than willing to embrace either Obama or Clinton. Now, I am considering jumping parties ...


    Silence is Assent:
    What the Democratic Party Apparently Thinks of Women
    by Kathleen Reardon


    Who could have predicted how much a presidential race in the 21st Century would damage women's progress? When Betty Friedan and I taught classes together in the mid 1990s, she'd moved beyond The Feminine Mystique to what she called "the second stage," a time when men and women would reconcile their differences so all might benefit.

    Were she alive today, she'd be shocked and furious at the deplorable way in which Hillary Clinton's campaign is being used by the media as an excuse to slap women back into what my very much "steamed" 83-year-old mother-in-law, Connie, described yesterday as "our supposed place." Were Betty around now, she'd be shouting before even entering my car, asking me why my generation wasn't doing more. Why we're allowing this to happen?

    Part of the problem is that Hillary is running against a very popular Barack Obama. To stand up against media demeaning of his opponent takes a level of sportsmanship by his supporters we're willing to teach our children in soccer and baseball but apparently unwilling to expect of ourselves. "I'm for Barack Obama, so I must be OK with despicable attacks on Hillary" is how too many people think. These, no doubt, are the same people who will expect a rush to Barack's side by Hillary supporters should he win the nomination. They'll be saying, "Put it behind us and let's move on. Get over it."

    Not so fast. During a recent radio interview I said that were Barack to win the nomination, he'd have my vote. But with each day the Democratic Party is losing its appeal. And I'm far from the only one thinking this way. Where are senior Democrats calling for civility at least from their own members? How about a letter from them to the corporate media culprits? Where is Howard Dean? Why didn't Ted Kennedy bother to give a noticeable nod to women and their struggle to see one of their own become president before his ecstatic leap into the Obama camp? Wouldn't he have acted differently if he'd thrown his support the other way? Why does it take people outside the party and even opposed to Clinton to decry insults to her body, her face, and her every move?

    I'd like to know, too, if Barack Obama really stands for change, why this Democratic race is more of the same in terms of demeaning women so men might advance. There are times when silence is assent -- and this is one of them. I'm not suggesting he come to Hillary's aid. I'm suggesting he comport himself as the agent of change he so confidently claims to be.

    Barack isn't to blame for the nastiness. But he's hardly denounced it. Many of his supporters revel in it. I've written about political courage, most recently in the Harvard Business Review. And this isn't it.

    Corporate owned media flinging vile attacks at Senator Clinton should elicit from Senator Obama as much disdain as corporate lobbyists do. But he gives the former a pass at great expense to women -- those who notice and those who haven't yet.

    Each rung of the ladder onerously constructed and climbed by women in the past and present is being damaged by the current Democratic presidential race. I knew things weren't perfect -- that we weren't in any sense solidly in the second stage. I just didn't think vile media attacks on Hillary that resonate for all women would go largely unchallenged by the Democratic Party -- that people supposedly on the side of equal regard for all would be, by their silence, little better than those on the attack.

    If a vote for the Democratic Party means condoning incivility toward women and giving the most vile in the media and ones who take their lead from them free, unchallenged reign, then the Democratic Party is a shadow of its former self -- and may indeed be deservedly so in numbers before the vicious game they've condoned is over.
    ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
    ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

  • #2
    Re: Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

    OK...some examples from me would include...

    Rush Limbaugh talking about Hillary's "testicle lockbox" and calling her the most cheated on woman in the world.

    Tucker Carlson saying "There's just something about her that feels castrating, overbearing, and scary."
    ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
    ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

      There have been many, many personal attacks against Hillary Clinton.

      But, I don't see it as anti-woman as much as I see it as a general sign of the extreme nastiness that is permissible in our society towards one another - and, particularly if you are rich and/or powerful or in the public eye somehow.
      Who uses a machete to cut through red tape
      With fingernails that shine like justice
      And a voice that is dark like tinted glass

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

        Originally posted by PrincessFiona
        OK...some examples from me would include...

        Rush Limbaugh talking about Hillary's "testicle lockbox" and calling her the most cheated on woman in the world.

        Tucker Carlson saying "There's just something about her that feels castrating, overbearing, and scary."
        Hardly democrats! I wouldn't be jumping parties based on anything either of them say. Obama hasn't specifically denounced the attacks on Clinton, but he certainly has't participated in them and/or fueled them. Also, his website monitors regularly re-direct threads that start on the Clinton-bashing thread, and ask people to focus on Obama and the challenge at hand. It is most certianly not a free-for-all.

        I'll also say that I'm not sure how Obama denouncing the behavior would be recieved. Some might say it's a slight, as though he thinks she "needs" a man to stand up for her.

        Obviously I think the slams on Clinton are absurd, and if she's the nominee I'll most certianly vote for her. But I wouldn't toss my vote to "another 100 years in Iraq, backing off on the ban on torture" McCain - no way.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

          I didn't mean to imply that there are democrats making the attacks...but even left-leaners like Keith Olbermann can't seem to let go of it.

          To me, the point is that the democratic party doesn't renounce these comments. Where is Howard Dean? Where is the leadership of the democratic party? If Rush Limbaugh were making openly racist comments about the presidential candidate, Obama, I would ALSO expect an reprimand from the left.

          The dems are weenies. Weenies, weenies, weenies. That's why we're wasting precious time listening to 'who cares' testimony about doping and baseball up on the hill instead of focusing on the real issues at hand.

          My problem is with the party leadership in general.

          I don't think Obama needs to come out and do/say anything about it...but I'm outraged that women aren't upset about it...Can you imagine the outcry that would take place in our black communities (and rightfully so!) if Obama were maligned in a racist matter? What the heck are we doing? Support Obama, but still...cry out about the rampant sexism present. Tabula Rasa, I believe it goes beyond the standard nastiness because the assaults are directly on her as a woman and not just as a politician.

          At one time, I did feel that I would vote for Obama if he was the nominee, but I've lost that "lovin' feelin'". It would take something big for me to be able to embrace him now.

          And regarding 100 years in Iraq. Well, at least McCain is honest.

          Do we really just waltz out of their in a year? Hell no. I was as anti-war and anti-bush as it got...but our soldiers have lost their lives in Iraq. We have created a horrible situation in Iraq and quite frankly...we broke it...we bought it. What about US citizens working in Iraq? What about Iraqi citizens who have risked their lives to support the US troops? What about the hope that we offered the people of Iraq for the creation of a democracy? Is that hope also an empty promise?

          If you followed Bush and thought establishing democracy would be like a sit-com...all packaged up in a few 30 minute shows for a season...what can I say? We still have military bases in Germany....and we will need to have bases in Iraq for longer than any of us are comfortable.

          But then again...it's one of the reasons that we shouldn't have gotten into this mess in the first place.

          Kris
          ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
          ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

            DO. NOT. JUMP. PARTIES.
            Luanne
            wife, mother, nurse practitioner

            "You have not converted a man because you have silenced him." (John, Viscount Morely, On Compromise, 1874)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

              Originally posted by PrincessFiona
              Tabula Rasa, I believe it goes beyond the standard nastiness because the assaults are directly on her as a woman and not just as a politician.

              Ahhhh... This I understand. This was how I felt about Romney being constantly overtly and subtly attacked for his religious affiliation.

              I guess I've been thinking of Hillary Clinton as an iconic figure and those attacking her personally have been just using any type of mudball they could pick up. But, if that is how you feel about it then I understand because I had similar feelings about a different candidate not terribly long ago.

              If anything, I'm sick of the mainstream media. Sick, sick, sick. Even if Howard Dean or someone in the Republican OR Democrat party wanted to talk about unwarranted attacks on Hillary Clinton's gender I don't think it would be reported. This is the first time I've actually truly bought into a "conspiracy" in the sense of a group-think (ie the group think of the mainstream media which obviously has favored Barack Obama for quite a while - that's obvious to even us conservative-types ).

              Soooo... You're leaning towards Mr. Maverick? Care to persuade me on that one? I'm having a hard time holding my nose and may simply do it to prevent a true socialist from entering the White House.
              Who uses a machete to cut through red tape
              With fingernails that shine like justice
              And a voice that is dark like tinted glass

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

                Originally posted by Luanne123
                DO. NOT. JUMP. PARTIES.
                I wouldn't leave the Democratic party over this. I mean, I would definitely leave the Democratic party, but not over this.

                The real problem with the nasty "castrating"-type remarks about Hillary is not the uncouthe and crass tone. That's just superifical. It may seem like an anti-feminist "low blow," but...come'on. Ugliness is just a part of politics, whether we want it to be or not. The real problem with the remarks that should alarm the Dems is that they touch a genuine feeling within many American voters. She DOES make many people, men and women alike, feel castrated and disempowered. She makes people feel talked down to--intellectually castrated. I am not sure why. For a lot of people, just looking at her reminds them of her ridiculous, failed effort at health care reform, watching her get walked all over by her husband's infidelity followed by the slow realization that she sold herself to him in exchange for her own "power," her cackly laugh, her laughable "understanding" of the "average man's" worries, and the impression that, just-under-the-surface, she doesn't like, trust, or particularly respect the ordinary person--especially men. It is not always quanitifiable, but it is very real. Whether it is her personal style, her "solutions," or her general message, it is a real problem for Hillary. If she were a man, people would be complaining that "he" is condescending and elitist (John Kerry-type style--but men, in general, don't use the term "castrating" to describe other men, so no one called Kerry this).

                Compare her style to Obama's. What if Obama was a woman (not a caricature, but a woman who really embodies the style and warmth that Obama does)? Would anyone call "her" castrating? No way. His message--regardless of my personal thoughts on the worthiness of his particular goals--does not, at least superficially, ring of disempowerment. People don't look at Obama and think that he is probably sitting in judgment of them because they are not as savvy, smart, and educated as they are--despite the fact that he most probably is savvier, smarter and better educated. He doesn't give off the vague impression that he thinks people "need" him to help them. And he certainly doesn't give off the vibe that we are all just a mechanism by which he can achieve the power to which he is rightly entitled. He is, very genuinely, likeable. He doesn't castrate.

                Leave the Democratic party because their leaders genuinely believe that they are more capable spending your money than you are. Don't leave them because they are in the undesirable and awkward position of having to deal with the fact that their first, main-stream female presidential candidate is, at the core, a broadly unappealing personality. That could happen to any party.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

                  Tabula Rasa,

                  Romney was maligned for being a Mormon. I think it's interesting that someone with obvious religious credentials like Huckabee can be lifted up by a good portion of the republican party, while Romney was disregarded due in large part to his mormonism.

                  I am sick of the main stream media too. They made up their minds long ago about who they wanted to have win and have celebrated the candidates in that way from the beginning by giving slanted coverage.

                  Which...is where I will address Abigail.

                  Lets compare Clinton's style to Obamas.

                  Hmmm. We can't....because what we hear about Obama is that he is an engaging orator who gives magnificent speeches that leave people literally weak at the knees and weeping. Forgive my cycnicism. It's actually those kinds of reports that help me to lose interest. But then again, I was also the girl that opted to spend time in the library instead of going to high school football pep rallies, so my personality is just jaded. What do we hear about Hillary Clinton's speeches? "looks tired, voice jagged....".

                  Having heard Hillary speak though, I can tell you that she is engaging, smart and sensitive in ways that the media does not portray her. Portray being the key word there.

                  And maybe that addresses an even larger problem in this society which appears to still embrace the misogyny of its past.

                  A man can give a great talk (not just Obama) and if it is heartfelt...if his voice cracks or he stumbles through an emotional passage, it takes our breath away. He's so caring and warm and...we want him. If a woman does the same, she is weak, emotional, incapable. If a man makes a stern face, points his finger, stands in a posture of superiority over another man or woman, he is strong, independent, decisive ... a leader. If a woman does the same, she is ... a bitch.

                  Obama has, btw, presented himself in some ways that would be jumped on if her were another candidate. The smug sneers, the finger wagging....those are all things that could easily be blown up and used against him as well. The media just chooses to let those things slide.

                  And we, as women are the worst in terms of judging other women.

                  I don't want to draw my own self into this too much, but clearly, I have an emotional investment because I see some of myself (and all of us women) in Clinton.

                  When I was a graduate student in a man's world, there was no room for a casual, female personal style. At work later at the University level...still no room. Privately, as an instructor, I could have an engaging personal style, but...not in the presence of my predominantly male peers.

                  From reading your posts here, Abigail, I'd say that you, too, use a lot of rational thought and "big words" and are less on the touchy feely scale when you present your ideas. (this is not an insult, btw). I can imagine in your world as an attorney, being all soft and touchy feely wouldn't get you much respect from your peers....even if on the inside you really are.

                  You make a lot of assumptions about Hillary Clinton's power.

                  She MAKES people feel castrated? No. Feeling castrated says a lot more about the man. She doesn't back down...she won't be pushed around. There are men out there who feel threatened by that and want a good woman to know her place. Saying that they are feeling castrated is an expression of feeling like like they have lost control to a woman. That...is their problem. (Where are my scissors :> )

                  Hillary Clinton brought out a health reform package to the attention of the american public as a pioneer. It wasn't a ridiculous, failed effort. It was the first time that this was really presented as an idea and she investigated canada, europe and the US and really started to put together ideas that might be more successful here. She was willing to make it a national discussion. It was the republicans who dubbed it socialism and hillarycare and refused to allow even a national talk about the crisis in healthcare.

                  And. There is a crisis in this country in healthcare. We can't avoid it or ignore it...particularly as physician spouses. We just can't. The system will have to change and I want to have us be in control of the changes so that we can maintain a high quality of care...I don't want to be dragged into a change unprepared. As healthcare costs continue to rise, people continue to lose their coverage and coverage is watered down, we will have to have a national discussion about this. Even the republicans.

                  At a certain level, you have to be perceived as a "bitch" to get ahead. By that, I mean that as a woman you have to present yourself as being unemotional and perhaps even distanced.

                  I haven't said that I will leave the democratic party...but I am discouraged. I may indeed vote for John McCain this time. I don't know. This year, I am truly on the fence. Because a big issue for me is some sort of universal coverage, I still lean dem...but...I don't like Obama's plan. I could only vote for him recognizing that the final bill will have to change as it is passed through the house/senate anyway.

                  Kris
                  ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
                  ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

                    RE: Iraq-

                    They've all said (except for Ron Paul) that there will be American Military forces in Iraq for the foreseeable future. The difference is that the Dems claim that they'll be 'advisors'. Except that anyone who knows anyone who has been to the hospital in Balad will concur that apparently the advisors will definitely include medical personnel since Iraq has experienced a significant brain drain. (not that I blame them- I'd hightail it out of there, too)

                    There are things that I like about all three candidates but I REALLY wish they'd stop focusing on: sex, race and age and the three big topics of significance in this race.

                    Let's focus on the ISSUES, MSM.

                    I hate the dumbing down of American Politics. That's why I've been going directly to the candidates websites for their take. (and if you haven't checked it out, Snopes.com has a politics section that addresses lots of the 'rumors' regarding the various candidates.)

                    and I'm sorry Kris, Obama is a much better orator than either McCain OR Clinton. It's not something that anyone can do much about, except to make sure that they don't speak immediately after him, EVER. It has as much to do with content as it does passion. The man can SPEAK.

                    Jenn

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

                      I don't like the attacks on Clinton - and I've said it before. I've also said that I do like her - and that one of the factors that tipped me to Obama is my acceptance that HRC is FAR TOO POLARIZING. Whether it's b/c threatened men feel "castrated" or housewives are still pissed about the "stay home and bake cookies" comment, she is polarizing, and she will motivate the right to ensure she loses. People will come out not to vote for McCain, but to vote against HRC.

                      Again - I think if Dean or Obama were to come out and decry the attacks on Clinton, it could very well be perceived as a slight.

                      As as for "democrats thinking they can spend your money better than you can" .... uh, there was a surplus when Bill Clinton left the White House and there is now an obscene deficit due to a misplaced, poorly planned war that has cost thousands of lives and ruined tens of thousands of others.

                      Kris - go to Obama's website and read about his plans for withdrawl. He doesn't plan to pack up all of our toys and go home. He knows there will still be support there. But he doesn't want COMBAT TROOPS in Iraq anymore. He wants the Iraqi government to take ownership of their country. I agree - we broke it - but I can't say that if we throw another 1,000 American lives at it it will be anymore fixed than it is now.

                      Don't jump to McCain b/c you're mad that HRC is getting a bum rap. McCain is now turning himself into a pretzel to woo the conservative base -- I simply cannot believe that HE is backing off of the ban on torture.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

                        Originally posted by PrincessFiona


                        From reading your posts here, Abigail, I'd say that you, too, use a lot of rational thought and "big words" and are less on the touchy feely scale when you present your ideas. (this is not an insult, btw). I can imagine in your world as an attorney, being all soft and touchy feely wouldn't get you much respect from your peers....even if on the inside you really are.

                        You make a lot of assumptions about Hillary Clinton's power.

                        She MAKES people feel castrated? No. Feeling castrated says a lot more about the man. She doesn't back down...she won't be pushed around. There are men out there who feel threatened by that and want a good woman to know her place. Saying that they are feeling castrated is an expression of feeling like like they have lost control to a woman. That...is their problem. (Where are my scissors :> )
                        I'm sticking by my guns on this. I think she does "make"--that is, cause--some people to feel castrated. Personally, I don't think she does this intentionally. I've known a lot of powerful women who are honest (as the male-genitalia references go, since they seem applicable in this discussion! ) balls-to-the-wall nut-crushers. That type of woman wants everyone to know that, whatever your source of power is, she is going to rip it from you and eat it to make it her own. HRC doesn't seem that way to me. But I think, for many people, there is something about her--again, I am not sure that I am the right person to put an educated finger on it (I'm no sociology expert)--that, just the same, them feel like she'll come after their testicles.

                        I think the fact that some people feel this way is evidenced by all the ugly vitirol directed. Especially the stuff coming from men. You just don't talk that way unless you feel deeply threatened and want to minimize that threat as effectively as possible. And, in our society, stripping a woman of her dignity by implying that she holds power not because she is a master of people and dynamics, but because she just bloodily rips men's balls off, is an effective way of making her as unpalletable as possible. Unpalletable as a human being, because she has no respect for what men value most. It's a base and crude analysis that probably doesn't give most men enough credit as to what they are consciously thinking, but it certainly explains the comments. They make her out to be Senator Succubus. I think it's an attempt--whether made intentionally or not--to denude her feminity (an important part of being a female human), and therefore her social acceptability and power legitimacy.

                        However, I agree with you 100% regarding your observation that what this REALLY is, is a comment on the men. She doesn't make me--or a lot of other women--feel castrated (and by "castrated," I mean disenpowered in the most fundamental way). And we, like men, can feel "castrated," so to speak, when we have a threat to what we perceive to be our source of power (symbolic or otherwise). But HRC does not do that to us. We may not like her politics, but we don't see her as a personal threat. We can respect her power and disagree with her politics without being ourselves feeling disempowered by her--or resenting something personal about her personally. I think this may be because women are used dealing with women-on-women power differentials. Many men simply have no experience dealing with the dynamic of a more powerful or influential woman who wields potential control over them.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

                          Originally posted by PrincessFiona
                          Hillary Clinton brought out a health reform package to the attention of the american public as a pioneer. It wasn't a ridiculous, failed effort.
                          Ah, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one! I can't think of a bigger political failure in Clinton's first term. But, hey...that's why this is in the Debates forum! Everyone's entitled to a different opinion...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Silence is Assent (Must Read!)

                            :fans:

                            I still love her! As far as health care, it really sucks here. I would prefer socialized medicine to what we now have.

                            I believe men and women who display the same emotions are treated differently, not just in politics, but in every aspect of life. I usually try to stay out of the debates because I just don't have the "big words" power that some of you have, and my thoughts are not expressed adequately. I'll have to work on that. When I started Grad school the dean asked me to have a friend, colleague. or family member proof my papers :thud: Must work on it!!!!
                            Luanne
                            wife, mother, nurse practitioner

                            "You have not converted a man because you have silenced him." (John, Viscount Morely, On Compromise, 1874)

                            Comment

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