The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

[PrincessFiona]

The media!

Man...I'm so sick of the rumors, taking out of context, opinions and bs. I really wonder whether or not Clinton and Obama would even be at the top of the dem ticket still if hadn't been for all of the media hoopla about their campagins. If the only reporting that we got was based on factual information, I think the current races would look much different for both parties.

kris

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

If you're looking for other people's letdowns, mine would be:

Giuliani's Florida strategy.

Fred Thompson entirely.

Bill Clinton's unseemliness.

Hillary Clinton's crying.

The fact that no one is talking specifically about how they plan to protect Americans from future domestic incidents of radical Islamic terrorism. (The Reps say, "stay in Iraq bc the surge is working"; the Dems say, "Pull out in 60 days or less because we have failed." Either way--please explain exactly how either of these plans will help to keep terrorists at bay here, at home.)

The fact that no Dem talking specifically about s/he plans to pay for all his/her federally subsidized programs.

The fact that no Rep is talking specifically about how he plans to cut deficit spending or win back a Rep House or Senate majority.

[Rapunzel]

Re: The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

The media!

Man...I'm so sick of the rumors, taking out of context, opinions and bs. I really wonder whether or not Clinton and Obama would even be at the top of the dem ticket still if hadn't been for all of the media hoopla about their campagins. If the only reporting that we got was based on factual information, I think the current races would look much different for both parties.

kris

Yes.

Agree completely.

Maybe for different reasons - but that's beside the point. I agree. WITH YOU.

Don't you love that?



Big Smooch!!!

[Meenah]

Re: The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

Tabula Rasa wrote:

Yes.

Agree completely.

Maybe for different reasons - but that's beside the point. I agree. WITH YOU.

Don't you love that?

I'm also sick of the media. I was really psyched a few months ago, and now I just think I'll just wait and see who makes it to the November election. I have even started to turn OFF the news. I'd rather watch the Food network.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

I used to be really excited to hear what was going on in the news too, but I'm so turned off by all of it....I don't care who the dem nominee is now...The mudslinging and disgusting, ridiculous crap is just too much.

When Dick Morris got on Hannity and Colmes and basically told TX republicans to show up for Obama to make sure that the evil witch doesn't have a chance I ended my relationship with our news.

If Hillary would have lost because...she lost...it would be one thing. If Obama were winning based on facts besides being the Obamamania dude..the one to rename October Baroktober ... it it weren't all a giant popularity contest that the media has controlled, I'd still be into it. I could vote for either dem.

As it is...hello McCain.

Kris

Re: The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

I'll agree that the media is a PITA. I love how the Daily Show pokes fun at the MSM (along with the politicians themselves).

But Kris -- If you hadn't really had your heart set on HRC you would probably really like Obama. You can't blame him for the way the MSM reports on these things. And to say that the only reason he's winning is because of "Obamainiacs" is to discount those of us who truly have looked at him & his issues and do support him.

Re: The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

I'll agree that the media is a PITA. I love how the Daily Show pokes fun at the MSM (along with the politicians themselves).

But Kris -- If you hadn't really had your heart set on HRC you would probably really like Obama. You can't blame him for the way the MSM reports on these things. And to say that the only reason he's winning is because of "Obamainiacs" is to discount those of us who truly have looked at him & his issues and do support him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-cr ... 87366.html

It's one thing for supporters of Hillary Clinton to make the case that her experience in Washington politics would make her a better president than Barack Obama. But it's quite another to actually vilify Obama's ability to inspire as a "cult of the personality" or "nothing but words."

It is particularly disturbing when serious progressive writers who should know better repeat this attack on Obama's inspirational abilities. It demonstrates a failure to grasp the principal lesson of the last thirty years of American politics.

And since I'm editing this (to add the article link), I'll agree with Julia's note below about "journalism" vs. "commentary". Sadly the "commentary" group is what is considered media these days, though - which is why all that crap is lumped in together. I do not watch ANY of those split-screen shows (not even the ones that subscribe to my general way of thinking).

[PrincessFiona]

Re: The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

Jenn,

I was actually on the fence about McCain/Clinton last year. Way back then I even said that if McCain was on the ticket against Clinton that it would be a hard choice for me...

I'll be honest. I'm not completely decided.

I have been going to the McCain and Obama websites and am trying to pay more attention to both camps.

The reason that I'm intrigued by McCain is...that I think he is a man of incredible honor and courage. I always have. I thought he was railroaded by the Bush's way back when. This is a man who served this country honorably, spent time captive in a prison camp and has come back and embraced this country and everything it stands for....He is steadfast in his beliefs and isn't afraid to go against the grain within his own party (for example with immigration) and I think he is more moderate...even a little liberal. I actually like it that the hard core republicans hate him.

Those are personal reasons to be interested in him. I think he is a man of greatness even though he is softspoken, calls us all his friends and wouldn't make for a lot of media entertainment during his tenure. There is something about him that...calls to me.

Obama is a more unknown quantity to me and I have to honestly say that one of the big sticking points for me is his 1.5 years experience. Yes, we need change, yes we want a new perspective...I get that. At the same time, if my child needed surgery, I'd probably want the more experienced physician who could do it with his eyes closed if necessary than the young resident who might be more in tune with newer trends but is still learning the ropes. To me, experience does count.

My personal feelings about Obama are also colored by media distortions, and I admit that too. The sneers and apparent arrogance are just one example...but there is something in my gut that doesn't feel right. The 'obamamania' is what is doing it. I have a very hard time getting caught up in a movement...it sends off alarm bells to me because I worry that we're missing something. Movements like this mean not analyzing or scrutinizing and ... something feels off.

I honestly haven't decided yet. I'm disappointed for Hillary Clinton. I think she has gotten bad coverage, that the republican machine has helped to put her out of business with their calls to have republicans cross over in open primaries to vote for Obama to make sure that she isn't on the ticket. I think she's been railroaded.....but....I also think she hasn't run a strong enough campaign. It's on her too.

Regarding the media....It's just utter ridiculousness. The news commentators have literally been rubbing their hands together for a month now talking about Clinton's losses and propping Obama up. And Obama has played into the hands of the Obamamania stuff....making up new words in speeches, joking about renaming October 'baroktober'....that might have made me vote for him in high school, but...it makes me now.

:huh:

Keep talking to me about it Jenn....I need to hear the positives.

kris

[PrincessFiona]

Re: The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

I hate HuffPo. She has all but villified Clinton this cycle. I can't take anything she says about the 'cult of obama' seriously.

Re: The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

I've also thought John McCain was more "reasonable" in the past. But now he's pandering to the neocons and it makes me sick. For John McCain to back down on the ban on torture ... one of the things he stood up to GWB on, one of the things he just wouldn't budge on ... that just makes me ill. It also makes me terribly uneasy about what other issues he'll cave on.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

I'm not sure that I agree that he is pretzeling himself....though I know HuffPo would like to have it that way.

He is clearly still against torture and waterboarding and callls on the administration to abide by international laws. Though it's more fun to say "he was against torture before he was for it" his no vote was really about not applying the military field manual to the CIA.

Mr. President, I oppose passage of the Intelligence Authorization Conference Report in its current form.

During conference proceedings, conferees voted by a narrow margin to include a provision that would apply the Army Field Manual to the interrogation activities of the Central Intelligence Agency. The sponsors of that provision have stated that their goal is to ensure that detainees under American control are not subject to torture. I strongly share this goal, and believe that only by ensuring that the United States adheres to our international obligations and our deepest values can we maintain the moral credibility that is our greatest asset in the war on terror.

That is why I fought for passage of the Detainee Treatment Act (DTA), which applied the Army Field Manual on interrogation to all military detainees and barred cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment of any detainee held by any agency. In 2006, I insisted that the Military Commissions Act (MCA) preserve the undiluted protections of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions for our personnel in the field. And I have expressed repeatedly my view that the controversial technique known as “waterboarding” constitutes nothing less than illegal torture.

Throughout these debates, I have said that it was not my intent to eliminate the CIA interrogation program, but rather to ensure that the techniques it employs are humane and do not include such extreme techniques as waterboarding. I said on the Senate floor during the debate over the Military Commissions Act, “Let me state this flatly: it was never our purpose to prevent the CIA from detaining and interrogating terrorists. On the contrary, it is important to the war on terror that the CIA have the ability to do so. At the same time, the CIA’s interrogation program has to abide by the rules, including the standards of the Detainee Treatment Act.” This remains my view today.

When, in 2005, the Congress voted to apply the Field Manual to the Department of Defense, it deliberately excluded the CIA. The Field Manual, a public document written for military use, is not always directly translatable to use by intelligence officers. In view of this, the legislation allowed the CIA to retain the capacity to employ alternative interrogation techniques. I’d emphasize that the DTA permits the CIA to use different techniques than the military employs, but that it is not intended to permit the CIA to use unduly coercive techniques – indeed, the same act prohibits the use of any cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment.

Similarly, as I stated after passage of the Military Commissions Act in 2006, nothing contained in that bill would require the closure of the CIA’s detainee program; the only requirement was that any such program be in accordance with law and our treaty obligations, including Geneva Common Article 3.

The conference report would go beyond any of the recent laws that I just mentioned – laws that were extensively debated and considered – by bringing the CIA under the Army Field Manual, extinguishing thereby the ability of that agency to employ any interrogation technique beyond those publicly listed and formulated for military use. I cannot support such a step because I have not been convinced that the Congress erred by deliberately excluding the CIA. I believe that our energies are better directed at ensuring that all techniques, whether used by the military or the CIA, are in full compliance with our international obligations and in accordance with our deepest values. What we need is not to tie the CIA to the Army Field Manual, but rather to have a good faith interpretation of the statutes that guide what is permissible in the CIA program.

This necessarily brings us to the question of waterboarding. Administration officials have stated in recent days that this technique is no longer in use, but they have declined to say that it is illegal under current law. I believe that it is clearly illegal and that we should publicly recognize this fact.

In assessing the legality of waterboarding, the Administration has chosen to apply a “shocks the conscience” analysis to its interpretation of the DTA. I stated during the passage of that law that a fair reading of the prohibition on cruel, inhumane, and degrading treatment outlaws waterboarding and other extreme techniques. It is, or should be, beyond dispute that waterboarding “shocks the conscience.”

It is also incontestable that waterboarding is outlawed by the Military Commissions Act, and it was the clear intent of Congress to prohibit the practice. The MCA enumerates grave breaches of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions that constitute offenses under the War Crimes Act. Among these is an explicit prohibition on acts that inflict “serious and non-transitory mental harm,” which the MCA states “need not be prolonged.” Staging a mock execution by inducing the misperception of drowning is a clear violation of this standard. Indeed, during the negotiations, we were personally assured by Administration officials that this language, which applies to all agencies of the U.S. Government, prohibited waterboarding.

It is unfortunate that the reluctance of officials to stand by this straightforward conclusion has produced in the Congress such frustration that we are today debating whether to apply a military field manual to non-military intelligence activities. It would be far better, I believe, for the Administration to state forthrightly what is clear in current law – that anyone who engages in waterboarding, on behalf of any U.S. government agency, puts himself at risk of criminal prosecution and civil liability.

We have come a long way in the fight against violent extremists, and the road to victory will be longer still. I support a robust offensive to wage and prevail in this struggle. But as we confront those committed to our destruction, it is vital that we never forget that we are, first and foremost, Americans. The laws and values that have built our nation are a source of strength, not weakness, and we will win the war on terror not in spite of devotion to our cherished values, but because we have held fast to them.

Re: The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

Kris - Clearly I get news from more than just "HuffPo".

[PrincessFiona]

Re: The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

I know. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that. I was only responding to the HuffPo link.

Sorry about that.

:huh:

[Rapunzel]

Re: The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

Ok, it's probably just because I'm the daughter of journalists, but I get really annoyed with broad complaints about "the media".

I think the problem is 24 hour cable news, and more specifically it's the "chattering class" who are invited onto those shows to talk about the news. Your example of Dick Morris (God, what a tool) is a perfect one, Kris.

This election has brought out some truly excellent journalism, and so much of what we know about these candidates is because of journalists. But we've become too quick to confuse news with commentary. That is what's truly unfortunate.

Well, I will agree that not all journalists have been allowing their biases to show. I've been impressed with the way Britt Hume has handled himself.

But, the media as a whole is starting a true downward slide. Did you catch last night that all of the major news channels are, once again, calling election primaries based entirely on exit polls? They almost universally called one particular race (for McCain against Huckabee) BEFORE the polls closed. BEFORE. Now, I'm not a cheerleader for either candidate but that is 1) highly unethical and 2) got the MSM in DEEP doo-doo before (remember Bush-Gore?).

There is a lack of ethical behavior in the MSM and it is largely because the control information without repurcussions for adding their own bias. After all, if you control information how does the populace at large determine that the information is being presented in a factual manner? The true "check" on the major news channels and the newspapers are the literally thousands of "man on the street" bloggers out here - which are largely disdained by the MSM (the discredited and involuntarily 'retired' Dan Rather is particularly infuriated by them ).

When I rage against the entire MSM I mean the vast majority of the MSM. There are a few journalists who seem to hold on to their integrity - but they are, sadly, few and far between.

[Rapunzel]

Re: The biggest letdown of this election cycle has been...

And also:

Newspapers should not - ever - endorse candidates. They might have editorialists endorse candidates. They might have many letters for each candidates endorsement from the general readership. However for the newspaper ITSELF to endorse a candidate is as unethical as it can get. It calls into question the newspaper's entire reporting on the subject.

I know newspapers are increasingly obsolete as their readership declines. But, I would submit that ethics should still be followed.