Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

I'm thinking V.P.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

I'm thinking total loser.

What a wanker...I'm so disappointed in him. He had the opportunity to do this so much sooner but he waited until it was already clear that Obama was the nominee. (Duh..there is no way that Clinton can win and we all know that already.). I lost a lot of respect for John Edwards today. All along he has said that he would hold back on endorsing....once it was pretty much wrapped up, he came out and acted like it was a heroic act.

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

Do you suppose he's hoping for a VP spot again? :huh:

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

What a marked lack of courage in not endorsing BHO before the NC primary.

Maybe that how the BHO folks wanted it, though. They knew they'd take NC, so they wanted to save up the bolster for after a HRC victory.

Whatever. He's so slimey. I am endlessly astonished at how anyone finds him or his hypocrisy appealing. Frankly, I think BHO is above him. He should be thinking Ed Rendell or Bill Richardson.

[Meenah]

Re: Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

Richardson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Momo]

Re: Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

What a marked lack of courage in not endorsing BHO before the NC primary.

Maybe that how the BHO folks wanted it, though. They knew they'd take NC, so they wanted to save up the bolster for after a HRC victory.

Whatever. He's so slimey. I am endlessly astonished at how anyone finds him or his hypocrisy appealing. Frankly, I think BHO is above him. He should be thinking Ed Rendell or Bill Richardson.

So Abigail is the repeated use of BHO, out of the Bill Cunningham play book?
Just curious, since he has always been referred to as Barak O'Bama, or BO??
It was Cunningham that insisted on using his middle name and it was McCain who disavowed him for this.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

What a marked lack of courage in not endorsing BHO before the NC primary.

Maybe that how the BHO folks wanted it, though. They knew they'd take NC, so they wanted to save up the bolster for after a HRC victory.

Whatever. He's so slimey. I am endlessly astonished at how anyone finds him or his hypocrisy appealing. Frankly, I think BHO is above him. He should be thinking Ed Rendell or Bill Richardson.

So Abigail is the repeated use of BHO, out of the Bill Cunningham play book?
Just curious, since he has always been referred to as Barak O'Bama, or BO??
It was Cunningham that insisted on using his middle name and it was McCain who disavowed him for this.

No. I don't play that way. If I criticize someone, it is based on something that I believe is a basis for intellectual dispute, not an ad hominem attack. I was using initials throughout several contemporaneously running threads on this site, in which I was discussing both him and Hillary, and abbreviations take less time to type. Clearly, "Sen" is out, since both are Senators. Last names are out, since "Clinton" can get confusing because of Bill's presence and participation. You often see her blogged as "HRC," so I chose to use initials. It seemed kind of rude to refer to Obama as "BO," given that is also an abbreviation used to indicate "body odor." I was shorthanding them in parallel ways. This isn't even remotely similar to what Cunnginham did, which was unintellectual, self-destructive to his position, and insulting on a number of levels.

Honestly, I didn't give using his initials a second thought. This middle name business is a red herring in terms of being a valid criticism of him, to which no reasonably educated person I know subscribes. It's just a name; there is no inherent value attached to a birth name (it would be different, of course, it someone as an adult chose to adopt an incendiary or inflamatory name to make a political point--which is not the circumstance here as the name is neither inflammatory or chosen by him). The mere utterance or acknowledgement of his middle name (or the initial thereof) that happens to be Arabic isn't racist. Racism is contextual and reflects intent of the speaker. (E.g., the use of racial epithets by Harper Lee in "To Kill a Mockingbird" was not racist because that wasn't the author's intent; however, using the same words by a bigot at a KKK rally would be). Clearly, in the context, I meant nothing racist. Because there is nothing "wrong" with his middle name, I am not going to pretend that there is (thereby requiring me to carefully "guard" my word choice), so that I can never acknowledge it in any form or fashion--especially when it facilitates quicker typing. I do not subscribe to the school of thought that defines racism by the feelings of the audience, as versus the intent of the speaker--that is, the school of thought that holds that if the listener "feels" racially offended, such resultant feelings establish that the speaker was racist. That destroys the intent element of racism and places a huge limitation on intellectual discussion and debate, because all thoughts are monitored by the public thought police of the most easily offended. I'm not saying that an insulted audience shouldn't give one pause for reflection; I am simply saying that the prospect of offending the audience unintentionally shouldn't cause the speaker to preemptively cull through their word choice to "vet out" any possibly offending argument techniques, and thereby chill debate out of fear that your intent might be misconstrued.

[Momo]

Re: Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

I was just curious, because I rarely see BHO, I have seen BO.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

I was just curious, because I rarely see BHO, I have seen BO.

I just can't bring myself to refer to someone as "BO."

All of this will be a moot issue, soon, of course. Once the Dems pick a horse. Then we'll be back to last names without confusion.

At least all of this "Hussein" business hass stopped people from talking about whether Hillary is "Hillary Rodham Clinton" or just "Hillary Clinton." I understand that some people think this is a more legitimate point to debate (since it could be perceived as truly "saying" something about her values since she chose to retain her maiden name professionally), but I am not sure how enlightening this point is. That she's a feminist? You need her last name to argue this? She's always posited to embrace mainstream feminism, at least in her articulated positions and policy. If anything, retaining her maiden name and using it in the political context points out that there is a serious dispararity between the values of most post-70s feminist thought and her actions. She took her husband's last name, gave up her career to follow him around, didn't divorce him after repeated public humiliations and disrespect, then got elected on his name. Hardly edgy feminism and female empowerment. I never thought her retention of her maiden name was ever particularly revealing of her, substantively.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

Our presidents in modern times tend to use their full given names - and not be ashamed of portions of them.

So, we have William Jefferson Clinton, his wife (pres hopeful) going by Hillary Rodham Clinton, George W. Bush.

I don't know why this trend started up - but it seems to be one that took off with Clinton or the elder Bush since I cannot recall Reagan's middle name (did he have one???).

So, we will most likely be seeing John McCain's middle name in the near future as well along with his apparent opponent, Barack Hussein Obama.

I agree with Abigail, though, calling someone B.O. just doesn't sound right (actually, it makes me giggle).

Re: Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

I think of the middle name with the Bushs as being used to distinguish between the two. Maybe that isn't the reason because I know off the top of my head that Bill Clinton's middle name is Jefferson. Maybe Bush Sr. started it? I don't recall Reagan's middle name either (but checked and it is Wilson).

I did call BO by those initials in another post and cringed at the abbreviation caused by my looking for short cuts. It wasn't bad enough to keep me from doing it.

[Sheherezade]

Re: Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

This just shows how silly the whole PC business has become. I always abbreviate to "Obama" instead of initials because that's not "BO" and it is short enough to type often. Of course, when the comparable "Clinton" tag is used, you need to distinguish husband from wife. If you switch to "Obama" and use "Hillary", you get in trouble for not addressing Hillary with a more respectful title. (That controversy occurred earlier in the campaign season. ) It's ridiculous. I think I'll have to go with "HRC" and "Obama" and just offend the people that want all the names to be harmonious in the passage.

No nasty grammar-based flame attacks, now!

Re: Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

Angie, that is why I used BO! I think I had used HRC and wanted consistency and a short cut. Now after having typed about this, I have typed enough letters to have lost any letter efficiency previously gained.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

This just shows how silly the whole PC business has become. I always abbreviate to "Obama" instead of initials because that's not "BO" and it is short enough to type often. Of course, when the comparable "Clinton" tag is used, you need to distinguish husband from wife. If you switch to "Obama" and use "Hillary", you get in trouble for not addressing Hillary with a more respectful title. (That controversy occurred earlier in the campaign season. ) It's ridiculous. I think I'll have to go with "HRC" and "Obama" and just offend the people that want all the names to be harmonious in the passage.

No nasty grammar-based flame attacks, now!

My head is spinning.

It is silly that it has gotten so over-the-top PC!

Re: Edwards pushes Hillary out of the race.

Our presidents in modern times tend to use their full given names - and not be ashamed of portions of them.

I just want to point out that Obama has never said he's "ashamed" of his middle name, and I severely doubt he his. Yes, our presidents tend to use their middle name in modern times, but not while running for the job. The exception that comes to mind is GWB - and again, that would be to differentiate him from the other George Bush that held the job. The problem arises when extreme right-wing talk show hosts and/or pundits throw out his middle name (along with incorrect statements about his education, religious affiliation, mispronounciation of his last name, etc.) in order to sway voters.