So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

[PrincessFiona]

I want to throw out some of the comments that I've heard in the mainstream media over the last couple of months in reference to Clinton. (We can all agree she has lost...) The blatant sexism has really bothered me at a core level...as well as the fact that ever word she or Bill Clinton said was twisted into something racist but so few wanted to hear anything about the reampant sexism. So here is the list I have...maybe there is nothing to even discuss about it...but it is one of the main reasons that I feel so turned off by politics at this point:

"Big news from New Hampshire tonight is...IT CRIES" (referring to Hillary as an "it" after the "crying" controversy in NH)

"Men won't vote for Hillary Clinton because she reminds them of their nagging wives."

"When Hillary Clinton speaks, men hear 'Take out the garbage!'"

(in reference to Hillary being tough) "The one thing we've learned from the Lorena Bobbitt case is that there's a great deal of resentment by women aimed at men."

"The only people for Clinton are the Democratic Establishment and white women...white women are a problem, but, you know, we all live with that." *laughs*

"Doesn't it seem like Chelsea's being pimped out?"

"(she looks like) everyone's first wife standing outside of probate court".

"She's trying to run away from this tough, kind of bitchy image..."

"The reason she's a candidate...is because her husband messed around...she didn't get here on her merits."

"I think someone's going to have to go out there and take her behind the barn."

[moonlight]

Re: So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

I want to throw out some of the comments that I've heard in the mainstream media over the last couple of months in reference to Clinton. (We can all agree she has lost...) The blatant sexism has really bothered me at a core level...as well as the fact that ever word she or Bill Clinton said was twisted into something racist but so few wanted to hear anything about the reampant sexism. So here is the list I have...maybe there is nothing to even discuss about it...but it is one of the main reasons that I feel so turned off by politics at this point:

"Big news from New Hampshire tonight is...IT CRIES" (referring to Hillary as an "it" after the "crying" controversy in NH)

"Men won't vote for Hillary Clinton because she reminds them of their nagging wives."

"When Hillary Clinton speaks, men hear 'Take out the garbage!'"

(in reference to Hillary being tough) "The one thing we've learned from the Lorena Bobbitt case is that there's a great deal of resentment by women aimed at men."

"The only people for Clinton are the Democratic Establishment and white women...white women are a problem, but, you know, we all live with that." *laughs*

"Doesn't it seem like Chelsea's being pimped out?"

"(she looks like) everyone's first wife standing outside of probate court".

"She's trying to run away from this tough, kind of bitchy image..."

"The reason she's a candidate...is because her husband messed around...she didn't get here on her merits."

"I think someone's going to have to go out there and take her behind the barn."

Sadly I think you are absolutely right. I think we will be able to look back on what's happened and really give the "media" the evil eye for about 2 minutes over the coverage on her.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

(We can all agree she has lost...)

Not me. I would not be at all surprised if she somehow pulled this off. I don't know how, and I don't know what the repercussions would be... but never count a Clinton out.

They're like bad acid indigestion. They keep coming right back at you, burning as they go and leaving a bitter taste in your mouth.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

I want to throw out some of the comments that I've heard in the mainstream media over the last couple of months in reference to Clinton. (We can all agree she has lost...) The blatant sexism has really bothered me at a core level...as well as the fact that ever word she or Bill Clinton said was twisted into something racist but so few wanted to hear anything about the reampant sexism. So here is the list I have...maybe there is nothing to even discuss about it...but it is one of the main reasons that I feel so turned off by politics at this point:

"Big news from New Hampshire tonight is...IT CRIES" (referring to Hillary as an "it" after the "crying" controversy in NH)

"Men won't vote for Hillary Clinton because she reminds them of their nagging wives."

"When Hillary Clinton speaks, men hear 'Take out the garbage!'"

(in reference to Hillary being tough) "The one thing we've learned from the Lorena Bobbitt case is that there's a great deal of resentment by women aimed at men."

"The only people for Clinton are the Democratic Establishment and white women...white women are a problem, but, you know, we all live with that." *laughs*

"Doesn't it seem like Chelsea's being pimped out?"

"(she looks like) everyone's first wife standing outside of probate court".

"She's trying to run away from this tough, kind of bitchy image..."

"The reason she's a candidate...is because her husband messed around...she didn't get here on her merits."

"I think someone's going to have to go out there and take her behind the barn."

The biggest problem for HRC is not the "unfeminist" tone of some of these comments. The problem is that several (not all) of these comments, despite their tastelessness, ring true for a lot of people. They are tacky but convenient ways of summarizing a general sentiment. For example, it's not nice to say, but she DOES remind a lot of people of a nagging (and I'd add know-it-all harpie) wife. And she DOES sort of look like the first wife--kind of frigid looking, shrewish, but well-polished. A lot of people DO think that the reason she's a candidate is because her husband ran around on her--her biggest accomplishment is having been married to him (which--even speaking as a Republican--does warrant some level of admiration for the sheer tenacity). One can argue that these sentiments are "anti-woman" but that doesn't change the fact that, for many people (women included), they speak a certain perceived truth. And no amount of PC guilt will change that.

She doesn't have this image problem because our society is somehow fundamentally anti-woman. She has this problem because a lot of people just don't like her--and this is an easy, albeit petty, way of reducing those feelings to a punchline.

Re: So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

There have definitely been sexist remarks aimed at her. That list is a good start. However, one thing I haven't liked is an expectation that I support her because I am a woman. I'm sure there are black people who support HRC who get flack for not supporting BO. I would love to see a woman president in my lifetime I just don't think she is the person to do it.

I can't recall the radio program I heard her on, but someone on a public radio program interviewed the former Canadian Prime Minister. I can't recall her name either. But she sounded *fantastic* -- not because of any platform but her way of speaking, her interaction with the interviewer, etc. I'll have to see if I can find a link.

Re: So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

There have definitely been sexist remarks aimed at her. That list is a good start. However, one thing I haven't liked is an expectation that I support her because I am a woman. I'm sure there are black people who support HRC who get flack for not supporting BO. I would love to see a woman president in my lifetime I just don't think she is the person to do it..

I couldn't agree more.

I can't recall the radio program I heard her on, but someone on a public radio program interviewed the former Canadian Prime Minister. I can't recall her name either. But she sounded *fantastic* -- not because of any platform but her way of speaking, her interaction with the interviewer, etc. I'll have to see if I can find a link.

I heard it too. Was it Fresh Air? I agree - it was a great interview. I wished I could vote for her here.

Re: So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

I found it!!!

Interview with Kim Campbell on Day to Day:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=87766865

[Momo]

Re: So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

I've always enjoyed her(Kim Campbell) when she's been a guest on Real Time.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

There have definitely been sexist remarks aimed at her. That list is a good start. However, one thing I haven't liked is an expectation that I support her because I am a woman. I'm sure there are black people who support HRC who get flack for not supporting BO. I would love to see a woman president in my lifetime I just don't think she is the person to do it.

I can't recall the radio program I heard her on, but someone on a public radio program interviewed the former Canadian Prime Minister. I can't recall her name either. But she sounded *fantastic* -- not because of any platform but her way of speaking, her interaction with the interviewer, etc. I'll have to see if I can find a link.

I never felt any pressure to support Hillary Clinton because she was a woman...to me, gender and race are a stupid reason to pull out the stops and vote for a candidate. I would also argue that it is unfair that people who chose not to vote for Obama were called racists, uneducated etc. To me, that is just plain nastiness. Also, I wonder what it says that such a large majority of african american voters (something like 90%) voted for him...is that also a form of racism? Was it right for them to vote for him based on the color of his skin? probably not...but I get it.

I agree with you though that Clinton just didn't deliver the magic....I think she blew it...Unfortunately, we just don't have any women waiting in the wings in our country that I would be excited to get behind. For whatever reason, working your way up in business/politics as a woman seems to mean becoming...harder and less..fantastic. I've gone through my mind several times to try and think of what female political figure I could get behind and they all just don't...do it for me...Hillary included, unfortunately. Like I said..I think she blew it. I'm sad that she didn't live up to my expectations or those of many men and women who supported her, but she didn't and that is on her....

Re: So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

I would also argue that it is unfair that people who chose not to vote for Obama were called racists, uneducated etc. ....

The only people that should be called racist for not voting for Obama are the ones who say they won't vote for Obama because he's black. That IS racist. Choosing not to vote for Obama b/c you want to vote for someone else or don't like his policies is just as legit as choosing not to vote for HRC for the same reasons.

As far as HRC voters being called "uneducated" - I've only heard that in reference to the demographics of her voters. The trend as been for people with less education / more blue collar to be in her solid support.

Both sides have thrown jabs. HRC's team have called Obama's people "coffee house elitists". It's all the stupid silly game.

[madeintaiwan]

Re: So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

Also, I wonder what it says that such a large majority of african american voters (something like 90%) voted for him...is that also a form of racism? Was it right for them to vote for him based on the color of his skin? probably not...but I get it.

The number of blacks in this country is so small [12% of the population]. The # of blacks out of the black population who are registered to vote and do vote is small. And when considering the blacks who actually vote, you have to take into account who they are. To speculate that they voted for him solely based on color is just plain wrong and a little ridiculous. I voted for him and I can honestly say that it had nothing to do with his color of skin. My white husband and white MIL voted for him and it had nothing to do with the color of his skin. Why should it be assumed that I did, simply because I am half black? It sounds like an excuse and an insult towards him and black voters. As if his only qualifier for possibly being the best candidate is the color of his skin and that people of color, blacks in particular, are only capable of coming to the decision of voting for him because he is black like them. Ironically, I think it is funny that you assume that blacks voted for him because he is black when he has struggled in his life with acceptance in the black community. A common struggle that many multiracial people and "white- washed" blacks have to endure. Just for the record, despite being half black, I have no love for Jesse Jackson.....

Re: So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

The Jesse Jackson point is a good one. Like I said, I think it would be great to have a woman president but I don't think that Pat Schroeder was the right person for that either (she contemplated a run, perhaps in 1992?). I think it would be great to have a black president but Jesse Jackson was not the right person to be the first black president when he ran (twice?).

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

Both sides have thrown jabs. HRC's team have called Obama's people "coffee house elitists". It's all the stupid silly game.

It's absolutely silly...

Stepping back for a bit of perspective, let's look at who is throwing jabs and on what basis. They both look like hypocrits: what we have are two Ivy League educated attorneys, who are both millionaires, who both own beautiful mansion-like homes in safe neighborhoods, whose child/children attend/have attended top-quality schools, whose marriages are long-term and stable, whose spouses work but don't have to, who are driven around and protected by the Secret Service, who are guaranteed job security regardless of the outcome of the election, who don't have to worry about mortgage payments or retirement or health insurance...arguing over who is better in touch with the needs of average Americans. **Uh huh.** I am sure that you're really feeling the pain at the pump, the credit crunch, and the fear that you won't be able to provide a good future for your children.

They need to stop this competition for the "blue collar, working class" award and present themselves in a more genuine way: smart, liberal, overeducated, well-meaning people who are, indeed, privileged, but come from the type of middle-class background that allows them to recognize the blessings they have now, which compels them to want to serve others.

Re: So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

They need to stop this competition for the "blue collar, working class" award and present themselves in a more genuine way: smart, liberal, overeducated, well-meaning people who are, indeed, privileged, but come from the type of middle-class background that allows them to recognize the blessings they have now, which compels them to want to serve others.

Well, yes. But just as with the mud-slinging, low-brow attack ads, for some reason this appeal works with the masses. How many people bought into GWB as a "good ol' boy" or Texas Rancher, when the guy has never HAD to work a hard day in his life, was born and raised in New England, Ivy League educated (even if not by ability, but by legacy), etc.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: So now that we know that Obama is the nominee

They need to stop this competition for the "blue collar, working class" award and present themselves in a more genuine way: smart, liberal, overeducated, well-meaning people who are, indeed, privileged, but come from the type of middle-class background that allows them to recognize the blessings they have now, which compels them to want to serve others.

Well, yes. But just as with the mud-slinging, low-brow attack ads, for some reason this appeal works with the masses. How many people bought into GWB as a "good ol' boy" or Texas Rancher, when the guy has never HAD to work a hard day in his life, was born and raised in New England, Ivy League educated (even if not by ability, but by legacy), etc.

What I thought was funny was the suggestion that GWB was a legacy-privileged idiot when compared to Kerry and Gore...meanwhile, he had better grades than Kerry received at Yale, and at least GWB actually graduated...Gore flunked out of theology school and dropped out of law school.

All of them--GWB, Gore, Kerry, HRC, BHO--should remember that they are not common, they have had privileged experiences, and that they come across as phonies when they try to sell themselves as the Everyman.

Although I am not a big McCain fan, that is one thing I like about him. He's not pretenious. He doesn't suggest that he knows better because he has the "right" diploma, or was talked with the most "esteemed" think tank. He thinks he's right because his experience has taught him this (whether he's actually correct is another issue, of course). But you get the feeling that you could actually have a beer with him and not have it merely be a stifled photo op. But then...I suppose the irony with that is, his wife probably gets a cut off the top from the cost of the beer!