Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

[Sheherezade]

I've been thinking a lot about this "pick a church" business. (The Obama-Wright thing stirred these thoughts up a gain for me!) Around here, there are maybe.....two? ... churches that I would consider attending regularly. Both are a 45 minutes drive away. So far, I haven't made the leap to regular attendance because it would take up every Sunday AM till lunch time. Not convenient. But who says that church should be convenient? *sigh*

I can't bring myself to attend a church if I don't strongly agree with the philosophies and teachings there in. That's what church is all about, right? I'd feel like a hypocrite if I sat listening to people preach things I just don't buy. I'd prefer to read at home and practice being a good person in my daily life. Why start out somewhere if you aren't buying it in the beginning? And if you do start out that way ( and learn and grow within that environment through the exposure), then how on earth do you choose a church to begin with?

Most people I know here go to church regularly. They go to a local church or the church they attended as a child. Choice (for them) is not an issue. They just go. I'm not from here -and I was raised in a household that exposed us to many religious choices. I "get" to choose. So...how do you go about that? These choices seem to be made by others for reasons unrelated to religious philosophy. People that I know that have moved in from elsewhere ultimately attend a local church community *even after they've expressed a firmer, mor legitimate commitment to a different church further away* because the local church is convenient. If you go to a far flung church, you would go less often. :huh: Your church of choice may offer the summer camp that you think works best for your child. You like the people that go to the ladies Bible reading group. I've even had people tell me they selected a certain church because they liked the building. I guess that could mean it was a special place in which God spoke to you...but....I'm not certain that's what they meant. I think they meant the stained glass was cool. And so on and so on.

Strange.

I suppose it bothers me that religious decisions are made more on the basis of friendships and community -- or "ease of regular attendance" - than on philosophy. That seems so hypocritical. I'm certain that Obama chose his church and remained there for complex reasons well beyond what the pastor was preaching. The community, the political involvement, the atmosphere, the location.... Now, of course, why he sat there for twenty years has become an issue. I can see that, but I can imagine many people I know here in the same (although less dramatic) quandry if someone started to question if they believed all those things the pastor has been saying for the last twenty years. :huh:

How do you choose your church? And how do you feel about people choosing an " just OK" church over a great one because it is more "practical" for their lives? Is it sinful to choose a church for the people and perks if you dislike the pastor?

I'm just curious. It is Sunday after all!

[HouseofWool]

Re: Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

I'm not sure I have an answer because we happened to get really lucky and the first church we tried out in this area fit us. We like the pastor and the first month or so, it was as if the passages and sermons were directed right at our lives. Given dh's crazy schedule, it has to be convenient or we won't go at all. That said, we would have moved on if we hadn't felt comfortable.

We looked through the phone book and picked a convenient non-denomination church. Simple as that. DH isn't thrilled with everything there. He doesn't like all of the contemporary music and would prefer something with more traditional hymns. I, on the other hand, grew up catholic in a congregation where they had only stopped doing all masses in Latin in the 70's and feel that the contemporary music makes it easier to engage young people.

Because the seems to be a relatively strong but small core group at the church, he also is concerned about the gossip factor. I don't see any issues, but then I tend to be pretty oblivious and not really care about what people think. For the most part, they are a kind and generous group, very involved in missionary work both in the US and overseas.

The whole doctrine thing is really hard for me because I have some fundamental differences of opinion with most organized religions. I believe firmly in gay rights, I also believe abortions should be legal (I don't condone or approve of them, but believe that women shouldn't be denied reasonable health care and that the risks of illegal abortions outweigh my personal distaste for them) and frankly missionary work makes me very uncomfortable. It smacks of imperialism to me saying that the belief system that has worked for centuries in a community is wrong.

But because the overal teachings of this congregation are aligned with our beliefs we stay inspite of the small obstacles.

Re: Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

Good question!

If you go to a far flung church, you would go less often.

This was absolutely true for us. DH & I did choose a church where we were most comfortable with the philosophy. And then we moved a half hour away and stopped attending... at all. Of course, our move coincided with the beginning of residency, so his work hours had a lot to do with his lack of attendance. But we also just didn't like the surrounding churches as well.

We're moving again, so this is a timely question for us. Probably, we'll end up compromising as best we can between philosophy and convenience.

As a SAHM mom now, finding "community" is more important to me than it was when I went to work every day. Because of that, one of the main things I'll look for in a church is that the people treat each other well and make sacrifices for each other. As long as the church isn't teaching that women get to heaven by joining an existing marriage - or some lesser teaching that violates my central beliefs - I'll probably attend where I know I'll actually make it there once a week and will be likely to make real friends.

[Phoebe]

Re: Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

Your question is pretty relevant to me. I would say we are between churches. :huh: We haven't gone regularly to the church we are members since DD#3 was born 20 months ago, except for her baptism.

Our first church was a place where our kids were attending preschool and we just kind of starting going there for that reason. The reverand is great. DH liked his sports references in the sermon, but the congregation is on the older side. DH is one of those people who goes to church because that is what his family did. He had perfect attendance in Sunday school as a child. I, on the other hand am looking for more sense of a community in a church, with programs with my own age group other than knitting. There is a church near our house I want to try, but I have been reluctant because DH is not about change and the church is bigger which he may not enjoy. The kids have gone there for VBS before. I think we have start going next fall so the kids can start the new year in Sunday school.

A friend of mine were speaking of this very topic recently. She attends the church I would like to go. It bothers her that people attend church for the sake of going or the donut and social hour. She is involved in outreach projects and service projects in her church.

I agree with you Angie that I would rather be on my own than go to a church just for the sake of going.

Re: Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

I suppose it bothers me that religious decisions are made more on the basis of friendships and community -- or "ease of regular attendance" - than on philosophy. That seems so hypocritical.

It bothers her that people attend church for the sake of going or the donut and social hour...I agree with you Angie that I would rather be on my own than go to a church just for the sake of going.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think it is ok to go for those reasons, at least in part. That may be easy for me to say, because I've never been to a church where I felt like I was sacrificing my own beliefs, other than sprinkling vs immersion for baptism or something else I consider pretty minor. Yes - first priority is that their central beliefs coincide with yours.

But maybe what I'm really saying is that one of my central beliefs is that people should support each other in a close community - including reaching out to others. Without friendships, and even sometimes doughnuts, how could this happen?

Hope that doesn't sound too argumentative... Just trying to clarify what I posted earlier so I don't sound like I have no commitment to any principles! Community is just one of my main principles.

[Sheherezade]

Re: Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

I agree with you that community is important. That's why this is such a quandry for me! I suppose I'm not used to living in a place that forms most of its communities around church life. Here, church is a central element in all the social groups that form. That's taken me a while to understand. Now, I am at a place in which I don't *need* that entry to make friends and find support, but I can finally see that the church you choose organizes so much of your family life. Knowing that, choosing the right church based on community becomes soooo much more important than philosophy. In the past, I have always seen religious choice as a question of what you believe - not what group of people you which to join. I hope that isn't too hard to follow.

One would assume that the people in a particular church would hold the same values as the church and that by picking the people OR the church value system you are doing basically the same thing. BUT, that doesn't seem to hold true in many cases. People I've met in church have no problem poo-pooing a certain church view OR may participate in behaviors that the church teaches against without any concerns. The church for them is mainly social, so values of church do not equal values of community in all cases. *sigh*

I see both views. I'm just curious where others stand on picking a church. I think I have to go with values over people because I'm an idealist. Still, I can see that is an impractical decision that has limited my participation in some good communities. Sometimes I woner if I shouldn't go with community and not get hung up on my own feelings of hypocrisy. :huh:

[poky]

Re: Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

The whole doctrine thing is really hard for me because I have some fundamental differences of opinion with most organized religions. I believe firmly in gay rights, I also believe abortions should be legal (I don't condone or approve of them, but believe that women shouldn't be denied reasonable health care and that the risks of illegal abortions outweigh my personal distaste for them) and frankly missionary work makes me very uncomfortable. It smacks of imperialism to me saying that the belief system that has worked for centuries in a community is wrong.

For background on where I'm coming from: My mom took my sister and me to the closest church to our house. I'm not actually sure if that was because she agreed with what was preached or because it was closest and a way for her to make friends and see them once a week and get in on things like dinner group. Dad was a school teacher, but was still a C+E-only attender. He's much less social than mom is. It happened to be a UCC/Congregational church, which is pretty light on doctrine, and very inclusive and non-judgemental (in my experience there).

Fundamentally, to me, were I to go to church, it would mostly be for the social aspects...but that ties in with what's being preached, too, because while it's certainly possible to be good friends with people who have different religious views, it seems more likely with a group of people who share my views, at least mostly. I'd also have trouble sitting through sermons I disagreed with strongly at a basic level every week. :huh:

I think you need to figure out for yourself what you want to get out of going to church (for you; not a poll of why other people go, or a feeling of what you *should* want to get out of it), and maybe even at a deeper level why you feel you need to have a church to go to? If a large part of what you want to get out of it is social/community/friendships (and it may not be, but if it is...), but the nearest one where you don't disagree strongly with the preaching is far away, then that "community" part may still be going unfulfilled, since there's much less chance of seeing any of those people outside of church. It could still be worth the time invested, but I'd think it'd depend on the situation. My guess is the people who told you they picked a church based on the building *also* probably agree (at least mostly) with what's preached there, and like the other people there...either that, or something about the building itself fulfills a major part of what they want to get out of going to church, which may well be true for some people; it may not *really* be "church" to them if it's a not a big stone building with gorgeous stained glass (I've seen some churches in Europe I could consider attending just to sit in the building every week...but then most of them are open all the time, so it'd be perfectly possible to do that without attending services, if the social aspect really wasn't a factor).

...and none of that takes into account taking kids to church and the reasons for doing/not doing that, which adds a whole other dimension to the whole thing.

ETA: Ah, and I see none of what I wrote takes into account the whole "small-town social scene" thing you're dealing with, either. Yikes. That's something I hadn't even considered (and will want to keep in mind when we decide where to land after residency, too!)

[migirl]

Re: Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

If I had to "rank" the reasons for choosing a church, I would have to say philosophy comes first ... followed closely by convenience.

I guess we're lucky in that we found a church that is (1) convenient (a few miles from our house), (2) spiritually and philosophically in-line with our beliefs (we're Presbyterian), (3) a place that fosters a good sense of community (even though the congregation is upwards of 2500, there are lots of smaller sub-groups and opportunities to participate in church life ... for example, I belong to a fantastic Mother's Group), and (4) has a fantastic minister who is a dynamic speaker.

We don't attend nearly as regularly as we'd like, but we're hoping to change that when residency is over.

Re: Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

I go to a church that is very out of the box when it comes to Christian churches. It's like a non-denominational church with some Presberterian leanings. But it is a church that is so out of the box that it is overwhelmingly comprised of young people. The church has somewhere around 500+ who go, hard to count because of the large group of college students that come and go, and the church member's average age is 27. They talk about open handed and close handed issues as a church. Some issues are fundamental to the church and those are the close handed issues, others are open handed - meaning the church will not toss stones to talk about them. I love my church. It's not perfect. The children's church is small, and is a week spot in the church. There really isn't a youth group yet, or a middle school group, because once again it's mostly college and young professionals. We go because there is no brimestone and fire talk. They don't make church time engulfed with second coming talk. I went to some charismatic churches growing up, and Baptist churches as well - and don't want to belong to either type of church. Our church is has good enough children's services to stay, it's organized, and the services are inspiring and really get to the heart of issues. But many families just can't plug roots there because there aren't a lot of groups/clubs for youth/singles/divorced/elderly which large denominations have covered very well. So in the end it's about what is more important to you, and to me that means every family has different issues that they won't budge on and other's that they choose to let go. I really don't think there is a wrong way or right way to pick a church IMO. We are all draw for different reasons and sometimes they change and we move onto another church, to me that is just the way it is.

[DCJenn]

Re: Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

I think our friends in the suburbs of San Antonio feel this much more from the 'community' than those of us downtown. Most of our friends in the burbs end up going to the UU church because of it's philosophy. There's only one UU church so it's not exactly convenient to everyone.

Most of the people we are friends with who are raising their children downtown don't go to church. and for those who do attend church, they pretty much go to whichever downtown church is their denomination. Since it's downtown, there's one of everything.

Jenn

Re: Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

The church for them is mainly social, so values of church do not equal values of community in all cases. *sigh*

I see both views. I'm just curious where others stand on picking a church. I think I have to go with values over people because I'm an idealist.

Totally true - You can pick a church based on what their website/welcome pamphlet says they believe, but then find a whole different set of people than you expected.

I can see where you're coming from. I guess if everyone in my community believed something that was truly offensive to me and I'd feel like a hypocrite if I pretended to accept it, I wouldn't go to their church. I'd stay home by myself. So much for believing so strongly in community! I've just never been in a place where there wasn't a church that I agreed with on the major points. I think it's incredible how many choices we have in the US about how we worship.

[planet]

Re: Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

Angie,

My first thought is that I can’t imagine that God would necessarily want you to be inconvenienced. Communal worship has been around for a long time and is very much a part of the religious experience we have. So in that sense the people do matter.

As for the aesthetic issue, it is my dh who finds architecture to be a deal breaker. My church experience is limited to the Anglican church, but I have found all Episcopal churches we have attended to be quite standardized. All other things being within a standard deviation of equal, why not pick beautiful surroundings? I see it as akin to being in love…sure the love needs to be based on depth and character, but what’s wrong with eye candy to boot? Would you kick Johnny Depp out to prove you aren’t shallow?

I also see nothing wrong with selecting those parts of the church or religion that work or don’t work for you. God gave his word and it has been mankind who found a gazillion interpretations. I do believe that God has the interest and infinite ability to guide each and every one of us.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

I go to an Episcopal church that leans hard toward Anglicanism. It is a "high" church--so-called "smells and bells"--and theologically conservative. We are very open to anyone who'd like to join or just attend. We go there because it has a wonderful children's program and I've made friends with one of the priests and several of the ladies who are in my Friday morning Bible study. And it is only Episcopal Church in the City limits that does not focus endlessly on the homosexual issue (whether a practicing bishop should be installed, etc.--all the stuff that is constantly on the nes re: my denomination). My church is pretty much of the position that there's a bigger need to focus on community outreach, service, evangelism, and education than political grandstanding. Which I like. I don't like Epipscopal churches that spend 90% of their time promoting their view on homosexuality being an acceptable lifestyle any more than I like my IL's church, which spends an inordinate amount of time condemning "sexually impure" (or some other similar term) lifestyles. It's like there's nothing else for these churches to worry about than sex.

[planet]

Re: Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

GMW, I haven't had any of the episcopal churches we've attended focus on homosexuality. I know it is an issue dividing 'the church,' but really it hasn't been in focus within any of the congregations to which we've belonged. I love that there has been 100% acceptance of my religion and the choice to not baptise the kids. We get blessed at the alter and have had excellent relationships with the rectors. I do not like the frequency with which they seem to move church leaders around.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Choosing a church: philosophy or convenience?

GMW, I haven't had any of the episcopal churches we've attended focus on homosexuality. I know it is an issue dividing 'the church,' but really it hasn't been in focus within any of the congregations to which we've belonged. I love that there has been 100% acceptance of my religion and the choice to not baptise the kids. We get blessed at the alter and have had excellent relationships with the rectors. I do not like the frequency with which they seem to move church leaders around.

Sounds like you've had a great experience with the Episcopal Church all around. That's awesome. I joined when I was in college and it has been a terrific, very grounding, centering experience for me.