Announcement

Collapse

Facebook Forum Migration

Our forums have migrated to Facebook. If you are already an iMSN forum member you will be grandfathered in.

To access the Call Room and Marriage Matters, head to: https://m.facebook.com/groups/400932...eferrer=search

You can find the health and fitness forums here: https://m.facebook.com/groups/133538...eferrer=search

Private parenting discussions are here: https://m.facebook.com/groups/382903...eferrer=search

We look forward to seeing you on Facebook!
See more
See less

Pfleger Effect?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Pfleger Effect?

    When all of this Rev. Wright stuff came out, I thought: ummm...why are people surprised by this? The church advertises itself as embracing black liberation theology. What exactly did people think that meant? Nothing about Wright should have been surprising. It may have been surprising that Obama wasn't better prepared to deal with the blowback, but Wright himself didn't do anything that couldn't have been completely foreseen. Actually, he was completely consistent with his express theological viewpoints...despite the fact that it was "good" for Obama. It was Obama that would have to change, to garner mainstream acceptance.

    I figured, Obama will eventually disown the theology he apparently embraced (by going to the church for 20 years), because he has to, to not completely alienate whites--most of whom don't view themselves as oppressors. There's no way to say, "Yep, I believe in black liberation theology, and I also would like to be the candidate 'beyond race'." That's oxymoronic.

    Early on, I figured that he could distance himself from his church and its theology by playing dumb: "Oh, I didn't realize that it meant THAT. That wasn't my personal experience..." People who liked him will accept that, as if it's completely logical (oh, yeah, he never witnessed the rants...), and people who are fence-sitters could be won over, reasoning that, "Oh, what a man believes in terms of religion really shouldn't be used to judge his politics" (as if there's no intersection). In the end, I figured it wouldn't matter much, because very few people will learn about liberation theology, to allow them to really think about how going to such a church for so long might influence a man's thinking about the world. And some people would simply see the question "invasive" on a personal level, arguing that he's entitled to privacy on the issue of how his spiritual beliefs effect his political thoughts.

    Does anyone think that the Wright/church thing might have a real impact? I am beginning to change my mind. Now, Obama's got another problem...another of his three "top" spiritual advisors--this Father Pfleger guy--has become a point of controversy...anybody see the pulpit rant from last Sunday? This seems like it could present Obama with a problem: there's no real way to say, "Oh, I didn't subscribe to this...I didn't know it was going on"... The more that stuff like this comes to the surface, the bigger problem he's going to have.

  • #2
    Re: Pfleger Effect?

    I think that the American people have, time and time again, made it clear that religion is a big part of how they view a candidate.

    Romney made an excellent speech on the subject during his run for the nomination. And, the implication was clear - that religion DOES 'make the man' or at least give good hints into his/her character and decision-making influences.

    I think that if Obama gets the nomination he's going to face this battle big time in the presidential race. People are, naturally, going to want to know what attracted him to that particular theology and those particular preachers. It was such a large part of his life for decades that I think the voting public's desire to know more about an important part of the life of a potential president is pretty natural.
    Who uses a machete to cut through red tape
    With fingernails that shine like justice
    And a voice that is dark like tinted glass

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Pfleger Effect?

      I think all we have to do is look at our very own forum posts about how people select a church. I think for some, a sense of loyalty trumps whether they think like the people in charge.

      That's how we ended up going to the Episcopal Church with the most bigoted misogynist priest EVER to walk the earth. The man wouldn't even shop at one of the local department store chains because it "used to be the black store". We stayed for a while though because my mom felt like she owed it to the parish.
      (small church=needed our money because they had outreach program my mom believed in)

      I seriously can't get worked up about it. I'm pretty sure that Hamas doesn't speak for all Muslims, the Hasidim don't represent all Jews, and Father Bonbrest (see above) certainly didn't represent all Episcopalians or even any member of my family.

      Jenn

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Pfleger Effect?



        This was the point of my thread about church selection. It was inspired by the church issue in the Democratic race. There are lots of reasons that people choose a certain church and some have little to do with ideology. That may not be wise if you are a political contender - but it isn't very flattering to think that a candidate has lived their whole lives up to this election considering how every decision will be viewed politically either. I don't believe it is fair to condemn a person for the same "mistake" that many good people I know in real life have made.
        Angie
        Gyn-Onc fellowship survivor - 10 years out of the training years; reluctant suburbanite
        Mom to DS (18) and DD (15) (and many many pets)

        "Where are we going - and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Pfleger Effect?

          I think the crux of it in Obama's case is that he didn't disown the church earlier on. The politically smart move would've been to distance himself entirely from the church before running for president. Had he been more aware of the feeling about religion in the whole country, I think he would've done this. I doubt the blue states care about these religious issues-- they understand it was politically expediant for Obama in the Chicago scene to be part of this church... And they would understand it's politically expediant in a national race to NOT be part of this church. He's the one who's made the statements about how important these religious mentors have been to him, and now... I think he's just dug himself in a bit of a hole. It will be hard to win over some swing states with these religious ties, IMO. But I do think it helps a bit to take the issue off the table that now he's definitely distanced himself from that church and the Black Liberation Theology in general.

          I agree that it shouldn't matter that all these extremists prefer Obama, but I think in voter's minds, and with clever commercials, it can be a big issue. McCain has had some "unacceptable" characters endorse him, but to voters in swing states, I think they'd rather not have a guy as president who's beloved by vowed enemies of the USA. To the blue state people, it won't make a difference.

          I just wonder why Oprah was able to see that the Wright church wasn't in line with her philosophy, and so she left the church, yet Obama and his family didn't. :huh: I think he needs to have Oprah as his top spiritual advisor, b/c she seems to have more common sense.
          Peggy

          Aloha from paradise! And the other side of training!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Pfleger Effect?

            I would also bet that since he became a Senator and spent at least half his time in DC, he didn't attend all that regularly. or probably since he was elected and spent a lot of time in Springfield, IL.

            location, location, location.

            Jenn

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Pfleger Effect?

              True, but if your family's serious rituals like marriage are resided over by Hamas, doesn't it kind of make you wonder? That's what raised my eyebrows.
              Nah, Hamas wedding receptions are the bomb.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Pfleger Effect?

                Kevin - are you PWI again??

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Pfleger Effect?

                  I plead the fifth. Pun intended though lager is the culprit.

                  On a more serious note, I honestly do pray for governmental gridlock. So, if Obama were to win, I pray for a republican controlled house and senate.

                  And, if the great little man a.k.a. (McCain) wins, I pray for well...I don't know what since I can't read him except for fearing that he's got a great man's complex.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Pfleger Effect?

                    I like gridlock too... So if McCain wins, we'd better hope for a Republican house and senate.

                    I doubt it will happen... McCain may very well win, but then the Dems most probably will increase their hold on Congress, and McCain will pass all sorts of stuff, reaching across the aisle, etc., etc...
                    Peggy

                    Aloha from paradise! And the other side of training!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Pfleger Effect?

                      Re: McCain.

                      He will bring the boys (and girls) home -- regardless of other considerations (if it becomes his choice).

                      He will garner the accolades of being able to change his mind -- trust me -- he will bring the troops home if he attains the presidency.

                      Book it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Pfleger Effect?

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X