Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

I vaccinate and am all for them. But I take issue with the line about pediatricians being frustrated b/c they have to spend more time convincing / explaining to parents that the vacs are safe. Boo-freakin'-hoo. If you want to stick something into my kid and I don't understand it, then you get to explain it.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

The absolute worst thing that happened was the voodoo scientific idea that the MMR vax causes autism. It's because so many people don't understand that correlation does NOT equal causation.
And, celebrities perpetuating the ignorance (Hello, Jenny McCarthy!) really, really hurt things. Oprah giving a forum for that idiocy is inexcusable (although she appears to be on a roll lately with endorsing bad ideas).

There have been a number of outbreaks around the U.S. (of measles) in the past few months/year. I seriously doubt all - or even most - of them were among homeschoolers. I'd like to see some numbers to back that particular statement up. Instead, what at least half of these were due to was the religious exemption stuff you see among public school kids (what I refer to as "hippy Evangelists"). Therefore the byline of this particular article is unnecessarily biased and attempting to bias its audience. How about, "Many of these measle outbreaks are sparked by public school students whose parents have filed exemptions"? Much more accurate.

Another thing that parents all over the U.S. really need to be educated about is herd immunity. Notice that a huge chunk of people who have contracted measles in the U.S. recently appear to have had the vaccination. That's because it's not 100% effective. In order to protect that small percentage which don't build up the immunity or lose it everyone needs to be vaccinated. Geesh. The selfishness of it is unbelievable.

Ignorance and selfishness. :banghead:

[DCJenn]

Re: Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

We're all about vaccines (obviously) but did space out some of them because we weren't 100% sure what he'd had in Russia. We ran titers and went from there.

I can say that the last time he got vaccinated, despite the fact that the vaccine lady in the peds clinic is FAST, I still felt so bad- who wants four shots in one day? I haven't decided which is worse- getting them all at once and getting them over with or taking a few days/weeks in between.

There was a certain group of upper-income mommies in DC who were all doing the chicken pox parties and not getting the MMR until school, etc. I couldn't hang with them very well.

Jenn

[Vanquisher]

Re: Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

When Lexi had her 4-year vaccinations (she had 4), she did so well! The nurse was awesome. She told Lexi to blow as hard as she could, and it helpd to distract her and seemed to take some of the pain away.

I am all about the vaccines too. In fact, if there were studies on the use of Guardasil in boys, I would vaccinate my son with that too. Ryan did just get a Varicella booster. Apparently, if your kids have had just one varicella, they need another!

Re: Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

The grandson of a dentist I used to see had an adverse reaction to a vaccine. I want to say polio but I honestly don't remember. It bothers me when concerns (not the ad naseum over and over concerns) are brushed off with "but no one gets the side effects". Even if it is 7 in one million or whatever, SOMEONE is still one of those seven. That risk is acceptable to me and reasonable given the benefits.

DD1 got chicken pox shortly after her first vaccine. The window for it having been caused by the vaccine was close but the NP told me that "it couldn't be a side effect because that hardly ever happens." But it happens, right? And it matters whether it was caused by the vaccine (because she would then need to booster) or if it was the wild type.

I vaccinate my children without reservation both for the benefit to them and the herd immunity of preventing diseases for the general population. I think one of the problems comes from the increase in shots over the last 10 or 15 years -- PCV, hib, HepB, HepA -- compared to what we got as kids. It makes sense that a parent would say "whoa, you're giving my kid 5 shots today?" That sounds like a lot!

I used to work on a pediatric immunization study and I understand from the provider's perspective that they have a captive audience with well child visits and want to get kids up to date.

I have claimed the "hippie evangalist" exemption. I received a MMR shot 5 days before my first birthday. No one had said boo about that until college. I planned to live off campus but might be banned from campus or something like that if there was an outbreak. I refused to get another shot because that just sounded stupid to me. I had to do something and claimed the exemption. (I think there are some other non-"hippy" objectors to that, Christian Science or Jehovahs Witness maybe?)

[DCJenn]

Re: Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

Julia-

I unfortunately know them well. I taught Stroller Strides classes in AU Park.

Jenn

[Vanquisher]

Re: Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

I had an aunt who died as a toddler due to her small pox vaccination. Her twin sister did not have a problem with it, as far as I know, and if she did she lived through it. In any event, none of the younger siblings, including my father had to get a small pox vaccination.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

Nellie, of course there are risks to everything. The problem is that the risks for childhood immunizations are inflated and emotionally-driven for the most part.

I've had a child who had a reaction after two different flu shots. But, his reaction was actually to the injection itself (cellulitis - and, yes, all normal methods to prepare and administer the shots were followed). Part of the problem is really just ignorance: Parents not understanding exactly what caused the reaction/problem and, thus, using a blanket explanation blaming the "vaccinations".

We know that there is a risk of adverse reaction to pretty much any treatment - or lack of treatment. What really drives the current situation, however, is a true campaign perpetuating all-out ignorance as to the true risk factors and their causes.

Re: Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

The grandson of a dentist I used to see had an adverse reaction to a vaccine. I want to say polio but I honestly don't remember. It bothers me when concerns (not the ad naseum over and over concerns) are brushed off with "but no one gets the side effects". Even if it is 7 in one million or whatever, SOMEONE is still one of those seven.

DD1 got chicken pox shortly after her first vaccine. The window for it having been caused by the vaccine was close but the NP told me that "it couldn't be a side effect because that hardly ever happens." But it happens, right? And it matters whether it was caused by the vaccine (because she would then need to booster) or if it was the wild type.

I will pretend to be my husband here and probably fail miserably. You're absolutely right. On an individual basis, the risk associated with getting a vaccine is usually greater than the risk of actually contracting the disease. So it's a tough argument for a ped to make - they can't guarantee anything, really. But that's where you get into herd immunity, and counting on that calculus means basically "free-riding" off of that herd. Which failed in these measles cases. Ultimately it becomes a classic case of collective vs. individual good.

I think the best thing the peds can do is figure out what causes the complications and keep those kids away from the vaccines.

You quoted before I added this:

That risk is acceptable to me and reasonable given the benefits.

Trust me, I've heard the party line from the pediatricians I worked with!

Re: Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

Nellie, of course there are risks to everything. The problem is that the risks for childhood immunizations are inflated and emotionally-driven for the most part.

I would say the *concerns* about the risks tend to be inflated and emotionally-driven, not the actual risk.

My issue with the chicken pox is that the NP totally wrote off the possibility of a reaction. It wasn't anything that would keep me from doing any more vaccinations but really did matter. I've been asked about it at subsequent appointments with the current dr wanting to know if it was vaccine related, and therefore requiring the booster, or true chicken pox (in which case she is now immune). Seriously, not a big deal at all, remotely life and death,or a chronic health issue but could have been handled better. I think there is a tendency to *completely* overlook any side effects. On the other hand, I agree that parents will link all sorts of issues, symptoms to vaccines in searching for a "reason" and jump on a bandwagon of "vaccines bad" without thinking it through. I see a lot of that here (in Portland, not the board)!

[Rapunzel]

Re: Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

I actually belong to a website (yes, unfortunately it IS homeschoolers - religious ones, at that ) where I periodically get to witness first-hand the hysteria that drives these anti-immunizations philosophies. And, really, they ARE based on just some little bit of gossip and/or conspiracy theory websites. The small pocket of people who tend to buy into the anti-vax philosophy also have a nasty habit of believing the medical community as a whole is, for lack of a better word, "evil". These same people generally also believe that "essential oils" can heal you, the AMA has literally had doctors murdered in the past, that the FDA is an evil conspiracy, ear candling is an awesome thing, herbs are good for you because they don't contain "chemicals" (don't even get me started in how I've tried to reason with them over that one), etc.

There are some very few, reasonable hesitations a parent might have that need to be addressed in the medical community. However, I can guarantee that reason is not what drives the majority of the parents who are anti-vax.

Re: Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

No problem, Julia. Too much fast posting. I shouldn't say "party line". The people I worked with got understandably frustrated with what Rapunzel referenced above -- conspiracy-theory parents who aren't really interested in what their doctor has to say. There are reasonable parents out there, like Jenn said, who just want to make sure they know what their kids are getting.

[rainbabies]

Re: Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

i'm for vaccines. our kiddos have had them all.

the family doc i used to work for would not do more than 3 shots at a time.

imagine my suprise when the mom whose babe i watch went in for her 2 month well child check on monday....and came back to me with 5 holes in her little legs. i think that is wrong. space 'em out!

[madeintaiwan]

Re: Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

i'm for vaccines. our kiddos have had them all.

the family doc i used to work for would not do more than 3 shots at a time.

imagine my suprise when the mom whose babe i watch went in for her 2 month well child check on monday....and came back to me with 5 holes in her little legs. i think that is wrong. space 'em out!

Really still 5? J had 5, but that was 7 years ago. Little Eó just had his and he only got 3 injections and one oral. He received 7 vaccines. I vaccinate my kids but I don't see too much harm with some parents delaying them. And I have no doubts that they sometimes fail and/or have adverse reactions. Davis has a significant nonvaccinating population, and the annual outbreak of whopping cough was pretty annoying. But that is how J came about. The facility I worked at required the employees to take antibiotics during a large outbreak and the prescribing doc failed to mention that my pills may become not so effective. Anyhow. I am surprised that baby received 5 injections!

Re: Vaccine refusals fuel jump in measles outbreaks

i'm for vaccines. our kiddos have had them all.

the family doc i used to work for would not do more than 3 shots at a time.

imagine my suprise when the mom whose babe i watch went in for her 2 month well child check on monday....and came back to me with 5 holes in her little legs. i think that is wrong. space 'em out!

Really still 5? J had 5, but that was 7 years ago. Little Eó just had his and he only got 3 injections and one oral. He received 7 vaccines. I vaccinate my kids but I don't see too much harm with some parents delaying them. And I have no doubts that they sometimes fail and/or have adverse reactions. Davis has a significant nonvaccinating population, and the annual outbreak of whopping cough was pretty annoying. But that is how J came about. The facility I worked at required the employees to take antibiotics during a large outbreak and the prescribing doc failed to mention that my pills may become not so effective. Anyhow. I am surprised that baby received 5 injections!

J had 4 shots and one oral at his 2-month check. 7 vaccines. I guess it depends how many they combine :huh:
He has not had his 4 month shots yet but that is only because we don't have health insurance at the moment, not by choice. Hopefully the new doc will combine as many as possible! I considered spacing them out but decided 4 shots at once is probably easier than 2 shots over two visits. It is over pretty fast. Unless the baby is really small, then I think it is too much on their system at once. Of course that is a completely non-scientific gut feeling only opinion!