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Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

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  • Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

    I'm just baffled, BAFFLED by the support that Palin is getting across the country. Time and time again, the republicans manage to turn around actions for which they would excoriate the left to their advantage.

    Check this out (I didn't write it, but I wholeheartedly agree with it):

    Black teen pregnancies? A 'crisis' in black America . White teen
    pregnancies? A 'blessed event.'

    If you grow up in Hawaii you're 'exotic.' Grow up in Alaska eating
    mooseburgers, you're the quintessential 'American story.'

    Similarly, if you name you kid Barack you're 'unpatriotic.' Name your
    kid Track, you're 'colorful.'

    If you're a Democrat and you make a VP pick without fully vetting the
    individual you're 'reckless.' A Republican who doesn't fully vet is a
    'maverick.'

    If you spend 3 years as a community organizer growing your organization
    from a staff of 1 to 13 and your budget from $70,000 to $400,000, then
    become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a
    voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new African Amerian
    voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, then spend
    nearly 8 more years as a State Senator representing a district with over
    750,000 people, becoming chairman of the state Senate's Health and Human
    Services committee, then spend nearly 4 years in the United States Senate
    representing a state of nearly 13 million people, sponsoring 131 bills
    and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and
    Veteran's Affairs committees, you are 'woefully inexperienced'.

    If you spend 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a
    town with less than 7,000 people, then spend 20 months as the governor of
    a state with 650,000 people, then you've got the most executive
    experience of anyone on either ticket, are the Commander in Chief of the
    Alaska military and are well qualified to lead the nation should you be
    called upon to do so because your state is the closest state to Russia .

    If you are a Democratic male candidate who is popular with millions of
    people you are an 'arrogant celebrity'. If you are a popular Republican
    female candidate you are 'energizing the
    base'.

    If you are a younger male candidate who thinks for himself and makes his
    own decisions you are 'presumptuous'. If you are an older male candidate
    who makes last minute decisions you refuse to explain, you are a 'shoot
    from the hip' maverick.

    If you are a candidate with a Harvard law degree you are 'an elitist-out
    of touch' with the real America . If you are a legacy (dad and granddad
    were admirals) graduate of Annapolis, with multiple disciplinary
    infractions you are a hero.

    If you manage a multi-million dollar nationwide campaign, you are an
    'empty suit'. If you are a part time mayor of a town of 7000 people, you
    are an 'experienced executive'.

    If you go to a south side Chicago church, your beliefs are 'extremist'.
    If you believe in creationism and don't believe global warming is man-
    made, you are 'strongly principled'.

    If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your
    disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you're a
    Christian.
    If you have been married to the same woman with whom you've been wed to
    for 19 years and raising 2 beautiful daughters with, you're 'risky'.

    If you're a black single mother of 4 who waits for 22 hours after her
    water breaks to seek medical attention, you're an irresponsible parent,
    endangering the life of your unborn child. But if you're a white married
    mother who waits 22 hours, you're spunky.

    If you're a 13-year-old Chelsea Clinton, the right-wing press calls you
    'First dog.' If you're a 17-year old pregnant unwed daughter of a
    Republican, the right-wing press calls you 'beautiful' and 'courageous.'

    :banghead:

  • #2
    Re: Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

    I couldn't agree more!
    Charlene~Married to an attending Ophtho Mudphud and Mom to 2 daughters

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

      I don't think they need to learn how to fight dirty but I do think they need to find a way to respond to the republican comments. Like Palin's comment about Obama being "just a community organizer", I had no idea what that was and until I read this I still had no idea. Why didn't the democrats come out the day after and explain what he did?

      Its things like that which don't make sense to me. Of course that is why I like to go to the nonpartisan fact sites b/c I can get through the BS. Some just believe what they want to and don't care if its BS.
      Wife to NSG out of training, mom to 2, 10 & 8, and a beagle with wings.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

        As someone who is watching in a baffled manner from the sidelines, I think this is 100% accurate!!!!

        *Not that I'm throwing stones, our PM is an uncharasmatic twit*

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

          I wish I had written this!
          Luanne
          wife, mother, nurse practitioner

          "You have not converted a man because you have silenced him." (John, Viscount Morely, On Compromise, 1874)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

            Thanks, Jenn - do you have a source for this? I'd like to forward it to some of my girlfriends.
            married to an anesthesia attending

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

              Originally posted by Ladybug
              Well, given the implications and the tone of the article I'd say the democrats don't need any pointers.
              I don't think there is anything dirty about this! I think it points out the way words and perceptions get twisted and then shoved down the throats of people sitting out there just waiting for some sort of angry rhetoric to "fire them up".

              I don't know the source, Laura - sorry!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

                i think the quotes posted could have been done the other way too. everything can be turned around...that video on comedy central with o'reilly, rove and morris could as easily have been done with democrats flip flopping. (i thought morris was a dem??)

                back to my cave.
                ~shacked up with an ob/gyn~

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

                  Originally posted by SuzySunshine
                  I don't think they need to learn how to fight dirty but I do think they need to find a way to respond to the republican comments. Like Palin's comment about Obama being "just a community organizer", I had no idea what that was and until I read this I still had no idea. Why didn't the democrats come out the day after and explain what he did?
                  I agree with you Cheri.

                  Sylvia - The Daily Show does catch dems in the same manner (and yes, Morris used to be a dem - I cannot explain him). However, that particular clip just killed me b/c these were HUGE flip flops, and most of them (Rove in particular) were in a month's time! Certianly not a change of opinion over a lifetime of service -- or even a year!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

                    Originally posted by Jane
                    I think it points out the way words and perceptions get twisted and then shoved down the throats of people sitting out there just waiting for some sort of angry rhetoric to "fire them up".
                    ITA. Words get twisted all the time by people of both parties - by all people, all the time. It would be refreshing to have a candidate who can twist words well enough to defend him/herself without looking like it's an attack on someone else.

                    But - this is why past records should carry more weight than speeches, and especially more weight than personal attacks.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

                      Originally posted by Jane
                      Originally posted by SuzySunshine
                      I don't think they need to learn how to fight dirty but I do think they need to find a way to respond to the republican comments. Like Palin's comment about Obama being "just a community organizer", I had no idea what that was and until I read this I still had no idea. Why didn't the democrats come out the day after and explain what he did?
                      I agree with you Cheri.

                      Sylvia - The Daily Show does catch dems in the same manner (and yes, Morris used to be a dem - I cannot explain him). However, that particular clip just killed me b/c these were HUGE flip flops, and most of them (Rove in particular) were in a month's time! Certianly not a change of opinion over a lifetime of service -- or even a year!
                      they were huge. i even showed it to dh...he got a kick out of it. as for morris...it's like fox said, "hey! come here, get interviewed/commentate and we will pay you lots!" weird. i can't imagine being that 'loyal' to the clintons for so long, then going to the dark side.
                      ~shacked up with an ob/gyn~

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

                        I think Ladybug's interpretations do make a point. (And....since I'm also curled up in a corner sucking my thumb since this Palin business began that's hard for me to admit! ) I think most of these misrepresentations have come from the media (black pregnancy a crisis, yada, yada) and pundits. If the candidates were saying this and then reversing for Palin, I'd be angry. I don't think McCain has said these things. Honestly, I think McCain and Obama have both run pretty clean campaigns until lately. I think that's why the Palin business upsets me so. I was hopeful that we were moving away from name calling and putting each other down this time. Palin's speech brought about an emotional reaction from me. I was baited....I reacted (here) ....but I am trying to stop. Obama has been honorable. He doesn't get in to the fray. He doesn't disparage Americans that make different lifestyle choices than those that his family has made. I am proud of him for that - and inspired by that.

                        I have a room full of 12 year olds in the next room talking politics. They are saying things like "Democrats are all crazy tree-huggers" and "Republicans are stupid". :huh: This is not the world I want. I have tried to tell my children the differences between Republican policies (of past and in the present) and Democratic views (also of the past and during times of corruption). I think they should decide for themselves if they think libertarian views or socialist views would make a better country. That's what America means to me. Different views, different people, different cultures - and respect for all. I'm saddened that the media/world is not helping promote that view to my children. They are learning that you do need to "play dirty" to win and that that's what counts. I hope, hope, hope that goes away. I am also frustrated by this recent turn in the campaigns. I don't want Obama to "fight dirty" because I admire him for his tone and the way he has inspired my children. But.....if he loses because he was "too nice" and didn't "hit hard" - what does that teach them? :huh: It makes me want to cry. Maybe I am just a wimpy tree hugger.

                        So...I agree with the Republican spin on Palin as at odds with the rhetoric spouted by Republican pundits, but I think that isn't comparing apples with apples. Actual voters aren't pundits and McCain has been respectable so far. Palin needs to stop calling people that are different than her names, though. Don't get me started on Rudy. I hope in the interview and in the future, the campaign will get back to issues and away from pushing "real Americans from small towns" as the only Americans with any sense or a valuable opinion.

                        Respectfully signed,

                        an Ohio soccer mom in a small town.....who didn't get the memo about what small town moms are supposed to value.....
                        Angie
                        Gyn-Onc fellowship survivor - 10 years out of the training years; reluctant suburbanite
                        Mom to DS (18) and DD (15) (and many many pets)

                        "Where are we going - and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

                          I agree with Annie and also with Angie. I think that both sides know good and well how to fight dirty and I also think that neither side has been too dirty so far. The lipstick/pig thing is ridiculous and I think has been driven more by the media needing a controversy than by anyone actually being offended.

                          I do think that far too often it is the folks from small towns who are dismissed because they are assumed to be too provincial (read "stupid") to vote for the right (read "democratic") candidate. I have heard too many comments about "fly-over territory" and Obama's own comments about "bitter people who cling to guns and religion" to think this assumption is merely rhetoric on the part of the republicans.

                          Sally
                          Wife of an OB/Gyn, mom to three boys, middle school choir teacher.

                          "I don't know when Dad will be home."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

                            I agree with a lot of what Angie said....I don't think that the candidates or parties have anything to do with the level of spin out there or opinions (it's the media dahling!) Also, I don't think that I agree with many of the basic tenets put forth in those quotes.


                            Black teen pregnancies? A 'crisis' in black America . White teen
                            pregnancies? A 'blessed event.'
                            Proceeding carefully here...but...I don't think teen pregnancies in general are looked upon favorably in general, but statistically speaking, more...*gulp* white teens tend to stay in relationships and continue with school...perhaps that is what is looked upon favorably and not teen-pregnancy in whites. And fwiw, one of my lab partners in ugrad was a black woman who had a baby at 16, finished school and was in college...and she didn't act like she felt discriminated against for that reason.

                            If you grow up in Hawaii you're 'exotic.' Grow up in Alaska eating
                            mooseburgers, you're the quintessential 'American story.'
                            So many jokes have been made about Sarah Palin being a hunter from Alaska...just the whole mooseburger part of this quote shows the cynicism directed at her.

                            Similarly, if you name you kid Barack you're 'unpatriotic.' Name your
                            kid Track, you're 'colorful.'
                            Again..I've read quite a few op/eds that make incredible fun of the names she chose.

                            If you're a Democrat and you make a VP pick without fully vetting the
                            individual you're 'reckless.' A Republican who doesn't fully vet is a
                            'maverick.'
                            Again...he got a lot of negative press for not being as thorough with the vetting....and I don't know if we can make the comparison with a dem VP pick recently....His title of maverick came because he went against his own party so many times on diff. issues.

                            If you spend 3 years as a community organizer growing your organization
                            from a staff of 1 to 13 and your budget from $70,000 to $400,000, then
                            become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a
                            voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new African Amerian
                            voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, then spend
                            nearly 8 more years as a State Senator representing a district with over
                            750,000 people, becoming chairman of the state Senate's Health and Human
                            Services committee, then spend nearly 4 years in the United States Senate
                            representing a state of nearly 13 million people, sponsoring 131 bills
                            and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and
                            Veteran's Affairs committees, you are 'woefully inexperienced'.

                            If you spend 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a
                            town with less than 7,000 people, then spend 20 months as the governor of
                            a state with 650,000 people, then you've got the most executive
                            experience of anyone on either ticket, are the Commander in Chief of the
                            Alaska military and are well qualified to lead the nation should you be
                            called upon to do so because your state is the closest state to Russia .
                            Ummm, yah..more bs sarcasm directed at Palin and not coming from the other direction. This is a democratic talking point. I agree with Ladybug that it appears thed ems are nasty enough..they don't need to be any nastier.
                            If you are a Democratic male candidate who is popular with millions of
                            people you are an 'arrogant celebrity'. If you are a popular Republican
                            female candidate you are 'energizing the
                            base'.
                            Sara Palin was seen as energizing the base because McCain put it to sleep. Heck...if they had picked Zoe's teddy bear, baby pink, it might have energized the base. I also don't know what her being female has to do with energizing a republican base.

                            If you are a younger male candidate who thinks for himself and makes his
                            own decisions you are 'presumptuous'. If you are an older male candidate
                            who makes last minute decisions you refuse to explain, you are a 'shoot
                            from the hip' maverick.
                            Again..he was given the nickname maverick for other reasons....but Obama being able to think for himself has not been called presumptions. Interesting language here though....young obama, old maverick

                            If you are a candidate with a Harvard law degree you are 'an elitist-out
                            of touch' with the real America . If you are a legacy (dad and granddad
                            were admirals) graduate of Annapolis, with multiple disciplinary
                            infractions you are a hero.
                            Come on...whatever we can say about McCain (and there is hotel's worth of kitchen sinks we can throw about him) he is a war hero.

                            If you manage a multi-million dollar nationwide campaign, you are an
                            'empty suit'. If you are a part time mayor of a town of 7000 people, you
                            are an 'experienced executive'.
                            This is not a race between Sarah Palin and Obama.

                            If you go to a south side Chicago church, your beliefs are 'extremist'.
                            If you believe in creationism and don't believe global warming is man-
                            made, you are 'strongly principled'.
                            I don't think that this comparison is being made. I think a lot of people think Obama is a religious extremist and Palin is just...an idiot.

                            If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your
                            disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you're a
                            Christian.
                            If you have been married to the same woman with whom you've been wed to
                            for 19 years and raising 2 beautiful daughters with, you're 'risky'.
                            Another dem talking point. It's all in how this stuff is twisted. I don't think that McCain has really brought his religion into this debate that much...everyone else has..and he has certainly never claimed to have a monopoly on the best marital behavior. No republicans that I know think that his behavior was ok...even my dad. And who has ever called Obama risky in reference to his marriage? People say that he is risky because he hasn't been on the political scene as long and he is more of an unknown, but...being 'risky' in that sense isn't necessarily a negative. Don't we want something different?

                            If you're a black single mother of 4 who waits for 22 hours after her
                            water breaks to seek medical attention, you're an irresponsible parent,
                            endangering the life of your unborn child. But if you're a white married
                            mother who waits 22 hours, you're spunky.
                            Actually, the criticisms of Sarah Palin's behavior in that regard were scrutinized heavily...I don't agree with the decision that she made, but then we have to call the physician who advised her over the phone negligent. Again, I don't know any republicans making talking points out of this....do you?
                            If you're a 13-year-old Chelsea Clinton, the right-wing press calls you
                            'First dog.' If you're a 17-year old pregnant unwed daughter of a
                            Republican, the right-wing press calls you 'beautiful' and 'courageous.'
                            Well, the PRESS, not the right-wing press, did that and it was wrong...AND...the press was all over poor Bristol Palin and her boyfriend....she wasn't initially called beautiful and courageous.


                            These quotes could all be flipped around very easily (and they have been I'm sure) by the other side.

                            The dems have been out there doing an awesome job of being nasty..."Is Trig Bristol's baby?", is Sarah Palin an unfit mother for accepting the Veep nomination (hell, I'd be there with bells on!!!), Did Sarah Palin have an affair with her husband's business partner? blah, blah, blah.
                            ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
                            ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Do the Democrats need to learn how to fight dirty?

                              Originally posted by PrincessFiona
                              If you grow up in Hawaii you're 'exotic.' Grow up in Alaska eating
                              mooseburgers, you're the quintessential 'American story.'
                              So many jokes have been made about Sarah Palin being a hunter from Alaska...just the whole mooseburger part of this quote shows the cynicism directed at her.
                              Having grown up as a kid from Alaska fielding questions about my whale-blubber-eating, igloo-dwelling habits, I agree with the author of this piece that it is beyond ridiculous to tout a Wasilla native as the archetypical inhabitant of small-town America. We ain't like the rest of y'all from Outside.

                              And moose is better in spaghetti, anyway. :P
                              Alison

                              Comment

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