How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

[PrincessFiona]

We all know that dawkters are just money-hungry jerks who overbill to drive Beamers...(at least according to a large percentage of posters at the Democratic Underground) :>

So how much money should doctors pay in taxes? I'm being a total devil's advocate here, btw...so don't throw rotten tomatoes at me! This ultimately affects us all, so I'm curious about how people feel.

Let's say we have a specialist who has $200,000 in medical school loan debt and did a 5 year surgery residency and a 2 year fellowship. He comes out of training at age 40 with no retirement saved, and is offered 300,000 for a job. This individual continues working a good 80 hour work week when you consider he gets called in in the middle of the night to perform surgeries, etc. (My dh is NOT a surgeon, btw...this is purely hypothetical.)

How much money of the 300k salary does this doctor deserve to keep? $200k? $150k How do you come up with that calculation?

I'm curious at how people will see this.

If he should not be permitted to keep a fairly large percentage, should he refuse to go in and see patients in the middle of the night or see the uninsured?

Just curious...

Kris

Re: How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

I don't get why they would pay a different tax rate than someone else making the same amount. Maybe what you are getting at is that the income limit on student loan deductions should be lifted for certain professions? Maybe it should be lifted for anyone practicing primary care or for 5 years or something.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

I am not arguing for or against someone else making the same amount of money...I just figured I would stick with a question relevant to posters here. If an attorney was working so hard that they were earning 300k a year, it would be the same question. I'm just wondering if people feel differently about raising taxes if they consider the situation that may or may not hit them close to home and if they will also have the same expectations of that person's willingness to take call/uninsured patients as their income dwindles more. :huh:

Re: How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

Ok, I get what you are saying. I think any kind of health care reform won't have any warm fuzzies for doctors and that was playing into my answer.

[DCJenn]

Re: How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

I have no idea because we'll never, ever make 250k.

J.

[Vishenka69]

Re: How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

I agree that the new tax plan is a total income redistribution. Everyone we know who makes over $250K a year works very hard for that money and deserves to keep as much as possible. I understand that social and gov't programs need to be funded somehow but I don't agree that the 5% of population who uses them the least should be the only ones to pay for them. If all Obama's proposals go through, we'll be paying over 50% in just federal taxes, not to mention AMT or state. At that rate, regardless of how bored I am or how much I would love my job, it just doesn't make sense for me to work. After figuring in work related expenses, I'd be surprised if I got to keep anything.

I would much rather sponsor a scholarship at my old alma mater than pay an extra $20K+ in taxes.

[Sheherezade]

Re: How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

I like the flat tax as well.

Hey....we all agree! Let's get that on an agenda and pass it!

I'm not sure what a "fair" upper limit is. I guess that's what you are getting at with this question. :huh: So far, DH an I have not felt unfairly pinched although we do pay in a lot. Academic medicine.....but at least we have residents/fellows to go in in the middle of the night and call DH at home with an evaluation. That's worth the lower income many nights and weekends.

We haven't been hit with the AMT yet. That's a flat rate isn't it? I know that it pisses lots of people off so I'm wondering how that reflects on flat tax systems.

Re: How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

The AMT is a flat tax (on the income subject to it).

My issue with it is that it is poorly thought out and unfairly applied. I'm not against a flat tax, depending on how it is carried out.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

So how much money should doctors pay in taxes?

As little as possible. Like everyone else.

Re: How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

What happened to taxation without representation? Isn't that what the American revolution was all about? Doctors get taxed more for making over the $250K but are they represented more? I think not. For paying so much, we should have more people looking out for our interests. As far as the AMT, it just sucks. We pay our horrendous 30 something percent and then are taxed more on top of that. I have always been a democrat and will vote that way in every way except for president. McCain will be on our side and IMHO you have to look out for whats best for your family. Not the most popular opinion, but that is just me.

[MDPhDWife]

Re: How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

Take this post with a grain of salt since we're not anywhere close to being out of poverty so my perception is skewed and I can't fathom us making anything close to six figures yet.

We think we'll be less than pissed when our turn comes to pay the tax man because we have personally benefitted from a lot of the programs currently in place. Gracie goes to Headstart for preschool, Isabella is on the free lunch program at school, we're on Medicaid (thank goodness because it has saved our ass time and time again), and we once received food stamps. We also get massive tax returns every year, in fact I believe last year our tax rate was -23%. I will say I think the massive tax returns are a little much but don't get me wrong, we certainly enjoyed them and they've given us the ability to replenish the meager savings account that has been sucked dry by then. Without these government programs I'm not sure where we would be, so I'm a firm believer that they're necessary.

Lawrence and I have said that when we're getting taxed to death we'll need to remember these days and now we're just paying the system back. :huh:

I could get behind a flat rate tax as long as the programs available will still able to get adequate funding.

Re: How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

What happened to taxation without representation? Isn't that what the American revolution was all about? Doctors get taxed more for making over the $250K but are they represented more? I think not. For paying so much, we should have more people looking out for our interests.

Now this makes sense!!

I am staunchly Democratic when it comes to graduated taxes b/c I think we all carry burdens, and not everyone has the tools to overcome difficulties or make much money. But DH - who, by the way, is the one working so hard to bring in the money for our household - is staunchly Republican on this issue, and he is pissed! He's been ranting and raving about Obama's tax plan, with increasing intensity as the election approaches. I have never met a person so capable with money and so little inclined to accept help. He doesn't understand that not everyone can do what he does - and that not everyone can take out a loan from good ol' Mom & Dad in an emergency, like we did once or twice along the way. Some people have no help available at all. And what the government does for people who can't or won't help themselves is beneficial to everyone because it decreases poverty and crime.

So, yeah, I don't mind having to pay a higher percentage of taxes. But I realize this is from the perspective of a person who gets to stay at home all day with my kids and not worry about how we'll cover our bills.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

I am staunchly Democratic when it comes to graduated taxes b/c I think we all carry burdens, and not everyone has the tools to overcome difficulties or make much money. But DH - who, by the way, is the one working so hard to bring in the money for our household - is staunchly Republican on this issue, and he is pissed! He's been ranting and raving about Obama's tax plan, with increasing intensity as the election approaches. I have never met a person so capable with money and so little inclined to accept help. He doesn't understand that not everyone can do what he does - and that not everyone can take out a loan from good ol' Mom & Dad in an emergency, like we did once or twice along the way. Some people have no help available at all. And what the government does for people who can't or won't help themselves is beneficial to everyone because it decreases poverty and crime.

Well, I'm with you....and I'm with your husband. I'm absolutely no help! I understand that the playing field isn't equal and that there are hardships that sometimes just can't be overcome in people's lives. I think we have a moral responsibility to help others. The question in my mind that I have is how...and how much.

Look at all of the money we are paying in taxes right now. Where is it going? Iraq. Wall Street. Holy balls, with the money we have spent in Iraq and that we spent on the bailout, we could have funded universal health care for a decade. :huh: We have completely lost our sense for what is right and wrong in this country. Why would I pay more taxes to fund this government? I am 100% certain that they would continue to fund their own special interest programs while cutting social programs for desperate people.

I also think we need to be working on these issues from the ground up...not trying to provide band aid financial patches later. We have to figure out how to create equal access to quality education for children no matter what school district that they live in. Everyone has to have a basic healthcare plan and it has to be mandatory. FWIW, my 35 year old brother's health insurance only costs $180/month. He does have a $5000 deductible, but he chose this. He could have paid $50 more /month and gotten a plan with a $25 co-pay. I'm sure it isn't perfect insurance, but I don't understand WHY all employers couldn't pay 1/2 of this and the workers couldn't pay the other 1/2. It should be mandatory...you can't drive a car off a lot without insurance and you shouldn't be able to get your first paycheck until you've signed up for one of the plans. This would lower health care costs for all of us.

With it being optional, too many people would opt out because they would feel that they are young and healthy...and then it wouldn't solve the problem.

I got a 94 on my last lab test. Yay me. My lab partner was joking with me becasue she got an 86...she said "hey, give me 4 of your points and you'll still have an A and then so will I". We were laughing about it and then this weekend I started thinking about it in different terms. I worked my butt off studying for that exam. I earned every point and I wouldn't want to give up any of them even if it meant that my lab partner and I each had an A.... Maybe that makes me selfish, but I also do believe that if you work hard, you should be able to reap the rewards of that too.

Sigh...it's not black and white, is it...

Kris

[Rapunzel]

Re: How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

What happened to taxation without representation? Isn't that what the American revolution was all about? Doctors get taxed more for making over the $250K but are they represented more? I think not. For paying so much, we should have more people looking out for our interests. As far as the AMT, it just sucks. We pay our horrendous 30 something percent and then are taxed more on top of that. I have always been a democrat and will vote that way in every way except for president. McCain will be on our side and IMHO you have to look out for whats best for your family. Not the most popular opinion, but that is just me.

You reflected my thoughts as well. And, you said it in a much more descriptive way than I could have!

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: How much should dawkters pay in taxes...

What happened to taxation without representation? Isn't that what the American revolution was all about? Doctors get taxed more for making over the $250K but are they represented more? I think not. For paying so much, we should have more people looking out for our interests. As far as the AMT, it just sucks. We pay our horrendous 30 something percent and then are taxed more on top of that. I have always been a democrat and will vote that way in every way except for president. McCain will be on our side and IMHO you have to look out for whats best for your family. Not the most popular opinion, but that is just me.

The American Revolution's battlecry of "No taxation without representation" had nothing to do with how much a certain group within society (such as doctors, or people making a certain threshold amount, etc.) is taxed. It merely stands for the notion that no one should be taxed without having a representative voice in the state body. There is no issue that doctors are represented--they have a voice through their elected representatives. Their elected representatives may not be the person they voted for, but they are still represented.

The one exception might be DC residents (doctors included) have an interesting argument about being taxed with representation, because they have no elected representatives in Congress.

I am with you 100% in terms of who has the better tax policy. Obama's tax proposals rest on the notion that the economy, as he puts it, "is grown from the bottom." (Apparently, the middle class--however he defines it--is the bottom.) There is no historical reason to believe this is the case. But it sure sounds populist and Robin Hoodish. But bear in mind, Robin Hood did NOT rob from the rich to give to the poor (as is commonly told)--he returned from the state (Nottingham, who acted as the government) that property which had been robbed BY the government from the peasants, in violation of Anglo principals of private property ownership. Obama's got it all backwards: he is taking properly held private property (money) from the wealthy to give to the government, to then redistribute downward to people who didn't earn it. There's nothing heroic about that. It's a proven way to disincentivize growth--which will HURT the middle class. Punishing the wealthy (including corporations) hurts the middle class because the economy stagnates.

But, gosh, he's so eloquent and good-looking and young and hopeful! It doesn't matter that what he says is...incorrect. He's the great hope because he's not George Bush!