Education Reform - Did anyone see yesterday's "Oprah?"

[SoonerTexan]

Nope--the one just north of where I work

[Sheherezade]

We don't have any separated special ed here. It is all mainstreamed. So, many children have an aide to help - and in some cases there is also a nurse. Although the presence of the aides can also help the whole classroom by providing a second pair of hands for the teacher, it is clearly stated that the aides obligation is to the single child - not the classroom. So, when push comes to shove "average" kids aren't getting much out of the costs associated with these salaries -- except a safety net if they at some time need special education help.

[diggitydot]

So, when push comes to shove "average" kids aren't getting much out of the costs associated with these salaries -- except a safety net if they at some time need special education help.

You might be surprised what the typically developed kids get out of the situation.

As the parents of kids on both ends of the student spectrum (one with an IEP - language disorder, and two in talented/gifted honors schools) and having experienced a few different districts, we've discovered how beneficial a varied classroom can be. Mainstreaming special needs kids has both advantages and disadvantages for everyone in the classroom, but if the student has an aide in the class, the teacher is able to devote more of their valuable time to actually teaching and less to the nuts-and-bolts of getting someone squared away and ready to learn. So, an aide in the classroom gives typically developed kids more instructional time with the teacher, while still seeing to the needs of the atypical student.

Kids can be merciless, but they can also be surprisingly kind. The district our kids currently attend does mainstreaming and this is the kindest group of students I've encountered, ever. They have some very significantly impaired students who are among the MOST popular kids in the school. DS's language disorder makes it extremely difficult to communicate at times, and these kids are patient and gentle when that happens. Sometimes more so than some of the adults in the building.

I think just being exposed every day to the idea that people who are substantially different from yourself are valuable members of society is a powerful and important lesson.

[Deebs]

As far as mainstreaming is concerned, I think it benefits children without special needs potentially more than those with special needs. The elementary school I "grew up" in was small, so perhaps I have a different perspective from that. In my family alone, I have a sister who is a PT, I am/was a health educator and then health care administrator, and my other sister went into education. Many of the children in my class went into health and/or social services fields. I think I am much more likely to think of how difficult a situation may be for someone with a disability. I guess it just made me much more aware of others at an age where, developmentally, it is age-appropriate to be ego-centric.

[Sheherezade]

I don't doubt that it is a good learning tool. My kids are very sensitive to anyone with a disability - and yet they don't see them as "special needs". They just have a good attitude. I'm sure that is a good thing. My issue is with the COST to the district. It is an insane cost burden to employ so many extra teachers - and to assure a 1:1 ratio for a section of the population. As I stated before, this has pushed the overall class size across the district higher as they are unable to hire regular grade level teachers - and have let the numbers slip as teachers have retired (and not been replaced). In contrast, they are not allowed to do this with students protected by an IEP. If you have a mandated aide, you will get one or the parents have recourse legally. If your child is "typical" and not under an IEP, class size can rise to 40 in a class and there is no legal recourse. That is my issue. As we have seen losses in many programs and increases in class size for "typical", one of the reasons given is that the district is not legally allowed to reduce care to special education. In fact, those numbers (teachers hired) are rising. I don't want to see one go up as the other goes down to compensate. Maybe this is unique to Ohio because we are currently operating under a school funding law that has twice been declared unconstitutional and because we must bring any increase in costs to the voters for approval. (As more and more of these new every four year school tax levies fail, we will see more and more changes here.)

[madeintaiwan]

Random thoughts...

I completely see Rapunzel's point. In fact in CA, they have a new series of commercials targeting the Spanish speaking population to take an interest in their child's education. There is one commercial where a father is doing the dishes so that his daughter can work on her homework and he is encouraging her, telling her that one day her education is going to pay off. Parents/families valuing education is huge. My mother was never around because she was working. We lived in the ghetto, I saw my neighbor shoot his girlfriend with a shot gun in the street in broad daylight. But, for as long as I can remember I knew that I was going to go to college. We used my Grani's address so that I could go to a "better" school until my mom could afford to move us over to that area. From the time I was 7 or 8, I knew I was going to go to UC Davis. Valuing education is huge. If education is valued, those kids will find a way to succeed.

I think that teacher's should be held accountable, just like any other job. Obviously, it's not cut and dry. But, I think it is ridiculous that you can't fire a teacher who is really horrible [doesn't care, is only teaching until the next gig comes up] just because they have been there for an X number of years. And there is something wrong if 80% of the students in a teacher's class are flat out FAILING.

Class size. DH firmly believes that IF you have an effective teachers and eager students, class size should not matter. He went through K-8 with 30 to 40 students in his classes. My brothers have at least 30 students in their classes and their schools do well.

Teaching to the test. I have HUGE issues with this. I have NEVER been a fan of rote memorization. I was never impressed by 3 year olds who can recite the alphabet and count to 100. Schools are failing our kids by not teaching them real skills like critical thinking and problem solving. You have these kids who sailed through school having remembered all the correct answers and then they get to college where they are finally expected to think and come up with multiple solutions and now they're screwed. They don't know how to find the answers/solutions themselves.

Mainstreaming. I am torn on this issue. My experience has mainly been with emotionally disturbed children, which I did a huge research project on mainstreaming versus pull out programs for emotionally disturbed children. And I worked with emotionally disturbed children who were both mainstreamed and in pull out programs. I still don't know what the best solution is.

I don't have any real solutions, just thoughts. Education is definitely a team effort with some parts of the team having more influence/importance. All I know, is that there is something really wrong when the LAUSD only graduates 40% of their black males. It's not just simply an issue of parenting or teaching. And it's definitely an issue that affects our entire society.

[scrub-jay]

Parent support is essential!!

In college, I would tutor in Oakland, CA as part of Upward Bound. The biggest problem within the program was that these kids often wanted to go to college, but their parents felt that they should instead stay at home and work to provide for the family. (Many of these were low-income families). I was told by so many of the kids that their parents were forbidding them from attending college and they would be in trouble for attending. This also went along with a lack of textbooks and supplies in some of the high schools. They came to our tutoring sessions because they could get supplies, extra textbooks, and support (and encouragement) from current college students. I had to hand it to these kids - how hard it must have been to work toward a goal that your parents did not value.

[v-girl]

Nope--the one just north of where I work

You mean the school district my children don't participate in because they teach to the TAKS test and try to make everything one-size fits all and if your child ever has speech therapy as a toddler, she will be deemed special ed for the rest of her school career? Umm...yeah...not a fan.

[SoonerTexan]

You mean the school district my children don't participate in because they teach to the TAKS test and try to make everything one-size fits all and if your child ever has speech therapy as a toddler, she will be deemed special ed for the rest of her school career? Umm...yeah...not a fan.

That's the one--though I think they are looked at as one of the better districts in the area