BYU Dismisses Player From Basketball Team for Having Premarital Sex

I could see how a non-religious kid could not be aware of expectations until after recruiting and letter-signig was over.

I think it would take a whole different level of cluelessness to get all the way to being a student at BYU w/o understanding those expectations. It's clearly important enough to them, I doubt it's a sheet just tucked in w/the other 700 forms. I totally understand someone not at all familiar with the faith thinking "Wow, a college in Utah, let's check it out.", but if someone is actually a student, they'll know. And I'm pretty sure this kid IS Mormon, isn't he?

[diggitydot]

I think by the time a kid gets to that point, they should be aware of it, too. But I could see how a kid could get to the point of signing up without it being very big on their radar. Particularly if they aren't religious or don't have a trusted adult around to help clue them in and if they're staring at a nice scholarship package.

I have no idea what the kids' circumstances might be, but most kids that age are pretty clueless.

[Pollyanna]

This. Mormon or not, I find it abhorrent how much the sports stars at the college level routinely get away with. Well done, BYU.

Ditto!

But I could see how a kid could get to the point of signing up without it being very big on their radar. Particularly if they aren't religious or don't have a trusted adult around to help clue them in and if they're staring at a nice scholarship package.

This was a while back but my cousin was recruited to play football there and it was made VERY clear what their expectations were if you sign on there (he turned it down because his mom was afraid he would be converted ). I can't imagine it is very different now.

Their honor code matches what we expect of our children (minus the caffeine part), even in college and beyond. I wish there were more Catholic colleges that stuck to an honor code that followed the tenants of our faith.

[Vanquisher]

It's not jyst caffeine. The dress code is CRAZY. Also the mormon doctrine on caffeine and warm/hot beverages is weird. They don't drink iced tea or iced coffee either. Most mormons don't drink caffeine containing soda. However, they will drink hot chocolate which is hot AND has a small amount of caffeine.

It's their honor code, and it isn't for me, but yes, they do know full-well when they sign up.

However, the honor code has not always been as strictly applied to their athletes. There have been a lot more instances of sweeping things under the rug.


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[Vanquisher]

http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/Word_of_...Hypocrisy.html

The Word of Wisdom says no hot drinks. I get that people want to live by their doctrine, but by this definition hot chocolate should be against doctrine, whereas iced tea and iced coffee should be fine.

The "rule" doesn't make sense.


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[diggitydot]

I agree that it doesn't make sense, but that's part of the reason I'm not religious. None of the dogma makes sense. However, I do find the reasoning behind various dogmatic edicts fascinating. Any idea what the reasoning is for prohibiting warm drinks?

[GrayMatterWife]

What I find unfortunate for this young man is that his very private sin is now being publicly shouted from the rooftops. Something like this in the LDS church is usually dealt with in a quiet, sensitive manner - so the young man and young woman can fully repent without the embarrassment and public humiliation we are now seeing. I feel for this young man who now faces a media circus over his poor choices. It definitely makes it harder for everyone involved.

This.

[SuzySunshine]

I agree - it was better when they were just saying it was an honor code violation and not saying what it was. Whether he went public with it or someone else did isn't right. A KU bball player was recently suspended for several games for a "violation of team rules" and it was never released what he did, I find it sad that this player's actions couldn't be kept private.

[houseelf]

Not that this has anything to do with ethics of honor code violations, but I'm curious about something. Did Davies proclaim that he was/is a practicing Mormon? Not condoning his honor code violation, just trying to get a frame of reference to see if he came from a more tolerant background and had difficulties conforming to such high ideals. If he was on the fence about his faith, this ostracism might have an unfortunate effect of pushing him away from the church or his faith.

[SuzySunshine]

I can't find the original article I read but I thought it referred to the fact that he wasn't Mormon but grew up in Provo so he knew very well the code but don't quote me on that.

[v-girl]

Their honor code matches what we expect of our children (minus the caffeine part), even in college and beyond. I wish there were more Catholic colleges that stuck to an honor code that followed the tenants of our faith.

I agree. I won't send my girls to the less expensive Catholic high school in Dallas (even though there is a bus they could ride there and back) because it is no where near what I expect of my daughters.

[SoonerTexan]

I won't send my girls to the less expensive Catholic high school in Dallas

You should have heard the crap DH told me about his Catholic High School in Houston...it was BAD. So bad his parents pulled his sis out the next year. I was much better off in my secular suburban high school

[houseelf]

I'm also curious about the provision regarding regular church attendance. While we are all on the same page that an honor code violation deserves punishment regardless of ones faith, I have a question about BYU's stance on the specificity of which religious institution one attends. I understand that BYU is a privately funded LDS college, but what if Davies attended mass or synagogue or even some sort of therapy to figure out his spiritual convictions? Would this adequately fulfill the terms of the honor code?

TBH, I find this incident fascinating because of my own experiences. Spiritually, college was a pretty dark time for me. I took a few deviations from the normal spiritual path including a few years believing the scholarly reading I was assigned such as Ayn Rand's opinion about organized religion. I'm happy to say that I eventually returned back to the faith that I was raised in but I was happy to have the freedom to explore it when I first became an adult.

Yes, I realize that I have taken this on a huge tangent. Cleraly, Davies was not exploring his...uh... faith, I'm extrapolating here.

DD1 is beginning to research colleges and universities and was utterly gobsmacked that some on her list were private religious institutions with requirements specific to their particular dogma. I could see how a non-religious kid could not be aware of expectations until after recruiting and letter-signig was over. Still, though -- once you agree to an honor code, expect consequences for violations.

No, there's no way they could NOT know the expectations going in. The signed agreement to the honor code is a required piece of the admissions packet. I attended BYU-Idaho (back when it was still called Ricks College) and I had to have an interview with my ecclesiastical leader as part of the admissions process as well. I believe a non-member has to meet with an LDS Bishop to apply, but don't quote me on that.

Anyway, I have a question for our LDS members: why the no caffienated beverages? Is caffiene considered addictive by church doctrine?

I'm also curious about Lemon Pie's post about caffiene consumption not being grounds for dismissal. If it's in the honor code along with pre marital sex, where is the line drawn? Since the consequenses vary for the specifics listed in the honor code, are the students aware of that when they sign?

http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/Word_of_...Hypocrisy.html

The Word of Wisdom says no hot drinks. I get that people want to live by their doctrine, but by this definition hot chocolate should be against doctrine, whereas iced tea and iced coffee should be fine.

I agree that it doesn't make sense, but that's part of the reason I'm not religious. None of the dogma makes sense. However, I do find the reasoning behind various dogmatic edicts fascinating. Any idea what the reasoning is for prohibiting warm drinks?

Yes, D&C 98 does say "hot drinks". However, it's important to note at this point that the LDS church believes in ongoing revelation through the First Presidency of the Church. In recent years, it has been specified that "hot drinks" refers specifically to coffee and tea--and by tea, I mean any type of tea that is made from leaves of the tea plant (black, green, white, oolong, etc.) Most members drink hot chocolate (in fact, hot chocolate mix is sold at the LDS church canneries) and herbal tea. Some drink caffeinated soft drinks, some avoid them. As part of the Word of Wisdom, we also avoid tobacco and alcohol, and in recent years, illegal drugs as well as abuse of legal drugs have been specifically mentioned as violations.

Caffeine itself is not necessarily the issue, or at least the entire issue. There are other compounds in both coffee and tea that could be considered harmful. People will speculate and give you all kinds of answers as to why we are told to avoid these, but the truth is that we really don't know for sure at this point. It's an obedience issue, pure and simple. I have faith in God, I believe the President of the LDS church is His mouthpiece, and therefore I avoid coffee and tea. However, it's important to note that the Word of Wisdom has been around since the 1800s and specifically prohibited tobacco LONG before we had the data and information we do now about the dangers of tobacco. And it endorses a diet rich in fruits, vegetables and whole grains and light on red meat.

I'm also curious about the provision regarding regular church attendance. While we are all on the same page that an honor code violation deserves punishment regardless of ones faith, I have a question about BYU's stance on the specificity of which religious institution one attends. I understand that BYU is a privately funded LDS college, but what if Davies attended mass or synagogue or even some sort of therapy to figure out his spiritual convictions? Would this adequately fulfill the terms of the honor code?

An interesting question. I'm not sure what the church attendance requirements are for non-members.