Wall Street Protests

[Momo]

The US protests are obviously much more in line w/Israel's Social Justice Protest.

[fluffhead]

The US protests are obviously much more in line w/Israel's Social Justice Protest.

I was thinking the same thing! But the Israelis protesting are seeking a return to their socialist roots - they grew up expecting to be supported by the socialist state, and the state has turned more capitalist on them, with a US-trained prime minister.
To be honest, they all sound like a bunch of whiners too - but the govt has appointed some commission to address their concerns and demands.

[SoonerTexan]

We're not sitting in our ivory towers, twirling our mustaches and trying to find ways to shit on poor people. We're trying to do right by our stockholders. We're trying to get our products to market. We're trying to get through the day

Ditto.

[Cinderella]

If your not willing to read what is written because it's too long how in the world do you expect to be taken seriously and listened to? Stop asking questions if you don't want to take the time to listen to the answers given.

There is nothing wrong with being rich but it seems behind every great fortune in this country is a great crime. What is happening doesn't even begin to cover the word disturbing. The people employeed within corporations don't have the power or the concentration of wealth that their owners do. It is not the employees will that is submitted. It's a dellusion to think that it is. The will comes from the top and is trickled down. They dictate what you wear, what you say, what you write, what color nail polish you can have and in most places what is appropriate for your sexal orientation.

It's a concentraion of power to the elite few not the many. Graph Unless you have that concentration of power and we're taking you're a billionaire then I'm sorry you aren't in their club even if you work for them. You're what they call "expendable." I suspect like the rest of us you are in the 99%. It's the 120 million at the bottom who are the most pissed off right now. Think about that in porportion the 300 million population of the US. That's porpotion is a fairly large number. If you make $2,000 a month or less you are considered in the poverty level. If you make between $3,000-$5,000 a month you are considered in the middle class. Workers today make less than they did 30 years ago while the cost of living rises and this is not a coiencidence. This is a squeeze and to what end is their greed? How much is enough for them? It's not right for the 1% to have more influence over governing a body of 120 million people not to mention the rest of the population.

The answer is simple. They are not too big to fail. Let them fail. Let it shake down. It was never supposed to get this big but thanks to deregulation it has become a beast. When the big trees stop taking all the sunshine and water for themselves the little trees can grow. The credit unions can flourish. The Mom and Pops can have their shops. Our food can stopped being poisoned. Our animals can stop being slaughtered unethically. Our water and land can stop being polluted. The innovation and ideas that are better for the future of this country can stop being suppressed by the captians of industry who kill everything else around them because they need it all.

We don't all have to have cookie cutter cities and wear uniforms with name tags to identify ourselves. We can get back to our original identities and live without fear of expressing our individuality. We can know the names of the people we buy our food from and how they grew it or killed it. We can know where it comes from instead of knowing little about those that hide in the shadows. Doesn't that tell you something about what they are doing and have done? They hide behind their companies annonimity. They know if the people knew what they are doing in the dark there would be a revolution the next day. This was said hundreds of years ago by the leaders and originators of our country.

Other cities to add to the list are Chicago and Austin. The rally in Portland yesterday was the largest in our country yet. Many thousands turned out and it was intense but remained peaceful.

[reciprocity]

So tell me what the answer is, all those who are pro-OWS.

Personally, I'd like to see a constitutional amendment that said essentially "corporations aren't people and money isn't speech"

It's not just about corporate greed but about the amount of influence we allow them to have in the American political system. You're right, corporations must pursue shareholder value to the greatest extent allowed by law, which is why it seems to get a little twisted when you give corporations nearly unfettered access to influencing policy-making. It's exactly because it is foolish to expect corporations to willingly rein in their pursuit of profit that we must have independent policy-making and regulatory bodies providing oversight.

[diggitydot]

Personally, I'd like to see a constitutional amendment that said essentially "corporations aren't people and money isn't speech"

That would be a fabulous place to begin.

Also, Anonynous is a worldwide hacker collective that has been very active in "punishing" companies and specific high-ranking people (CEOs, politicians, etc.) who piss them off. They are a leaderless group. I don't approve of their methods or actions, but I understand their desire to fuck with the people who fuck them over.

Again, the Occupy Together movement isn't just a bunch nose-ringed hippy assholes (although, I'm sure there are some), but instead is a pretty diverse swath of demographics.

I have no problem with corporations making profits so long as they aren't tanking the global economy with unethical, illegal, and questionable practices in their pursuit of the almighty buck.

[fluffhead]

If your not willing to read what is written because it's too long how in the world do you expect to be taken seriously and listened to? Stop asking questions if you don't want to take the time to listen to the answers given.

yikes.
I've read everything you've written, but quite frankly it sounds like a Che Guevara manifesto. I'm aware of all the issues surrounding capitalism, and I know all about the theoretical beauty of socialism.
It's been shown time and time again that this doesn't work. Unfortunately, tens of millioins of innocents have died showing that this doesn't work. And I seriously doubt that the average protester on the streets of NYC is as wholesome and idealistic as your posts.

[fluffhead]

I think that outlawing lobbying of any flavor would be an excellent starting point.

[oceanchild]

I think that outlawing lobbying of any flavor would be an excellent starting point.

I really, really disagree with that, actually. Lobbying sounds annoying, but elected officials are expected to know more than they can ever really be expected to know, and they need people to fill them in on stuff they don't know about. If you want those to all be nonpartisan staff (like me), that's going to cost a lot of government money, and frankly, nobody's too keen on that right now. They have to be able to get information from somewhere.

As to the protests and the underlying movements, I feel like that's what always happens with big protests. One small (possibly crazy) group starts something, a whole bunch of other groups join in, and before you know it, it's impossible to know what the "movement" stands for. If the anarchists didn't start it, they'd have joined it. The problem with power to the people is always that "the people" aren't one coherent thing.

[reciprocity]

Eric, I don't think that necessitates a constitutional amendment, since there isn't really anything to amend stating otherwise (is there?). However, I would really like to see the lobbying strength reduced across the board, and PACs and Super PACs controlled. Campaign contributions need to be made completely transparent.

the way I understand it (not legal advice - this is not my practice area) the SCOTUS has ruled on the constitutionality of campaign finance restrictions in light of First Amendment freedom of speech grounds, so in a way it would require "an amendment to" the First Amendment to say that money isn't speech and a clarification that none of the other rights set forth in the Constitution or its amendments apply to corporations the same way they apply to people (which is not to say that the rights of corporations couldn't also be embodied in legislature or even in constitutional amendments, but the Constitution is We the People, not We the Amalgamated.)

[fluffhead]

You've got a point Julia. But we've come a long way - isn't there some way in this digital age of supercommunication to keep tabs on what's happening back in the district, other than men in suits bearing gifts coming to take the senator to lunch in DC?

[Sheherezade]

I thought I was a cynic until I read this thread.

Man, I want a better world than what I'm seeing on here. It's a really depressing thread, folks. FWIW (and I'm guessing not much given the nasty condescending tone thus far), I think the protestors have a point and I'm 45 with one toe in the "wealthy" pool. And that's all I say. Don't want to be ripped to shreds.

Think I'll go crawl back under my rock.

[PrincessFiona]

I'm with Angie. Im not afraid of being ripped to shreds though, I'm just too apathetic to respond more.

Kris

[corn poffi]

Count me in as apathetic. Who cares who's protesting what? Let them protest. It's not any more asinine than arguing on the Internet.

[SoonerTexan]

I do find it interesting that some of those who are mourning Steve Jobs see no problem with what he did but hate "evil corporations."He innovated with the goal of making money--people seem to forget that.

Apple has provided amazing innovation while being a corporate bully at the same time...see their patent war with Samsung for one example. Heck--they are the Wal-Mart of the electronics world. I heard today my company sells them materials at a loss and I know when they say jump, we say "how high?"

Nothing is black and white.