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Joe Paterno should be fired!

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  • #16
    The one particular incident that the grad assistant witnessed in the shower stall in the football building - Sandusky having sex with the boy - should have been reported to police by the grad assistant (who is now an assistant coach there), his higher-ups or their higher-ups. This was already the second incident, the first having been witnessed by a janitor. The janitor told his boss, but then the report stopped cold because people were afraid of losing their jobs.

    Fluff, you make a very valid point. If you didn't witness something or have a student report a crime to you that happened on school grounds, then I can understand that you should not be held liable to call 911. Having worked for a state university, I understand about having policies and procedures for handling things internally. Things like purchase orders, travel reimbursement, cheating on an exam, issues with a roommate, etc. This is not one of those things that you handle internally. Look what handling things internally got them: a pedophile who they didn't stop and he went on to harm more children, administrators charged with perjury, and a black mark upon their school. This was a crime against a minor! I know that if I saw something on campus, I would say something to the campus police officer assigned to our building.

    I really think the debate is not whether or not they should fire him, but whether or not they will fire him. I really don't think he will be fired. The administration will figure out a way to make sure he exits gracefully, as a football deity should.
    Event coordinator, wife and therapist to a peds attending

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    • #17
      I see your point. The grad student witnessed a crime in action - he was probably the one who should have called the cops. But Paterno, who just heard the report of the crime, would then be the one to report the report to his superiors, I think, rather than call the cops based on hearsay.
      The whole thing turns my stomach and makes me wonder why we make athletics such a central part of universities.
      Enabler of DW and 5 kids
      Let's go Mets!

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      • #18
        So sad

        Surprised to hear the debate about Penn State, though--thought it was universally considered a public ivy.
        Married to a newly minted Pediatric Rad, momma to a sweet girl and a bunch of (mostly) cute boy monsters.



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        • #19
          Fluff,

          I'm glad that you spoke up and pointed out that Paterno did indeed inform the administration. I agree with you. He did make the right first step.

          On the other hand, this is starting to sound a little bit like the whole Catholic church debaucle. Adults have an absolute moral right to protect children. This wasn't anonymous kiddie porn on a computer from who-knows-where or circumstancial evidence of possible child abuse, he saw an actual rape of a child first hand. The facts are murky, but did he have knowledge of the janitor witnessed event as well?

          I really don't have a definitive answer on this, but at what level is morally and ethically compelled to ensure the protection of future innocent children, whom the perpetrator clearly had access?
          In my dreams I run with the Kenyans.

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          • #20
            I just can't get over that the dude was CAUGHT IN THE ACT and that the person who caught him didn't immediately kick the shit out of him while waiting for the cops they'd just called. Who sees that shit and doesn't immediately dial 911?

            I'm gobsmacked.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by houseelf View Post
              at what level is morally and ethically compelled to ensure the protection of future innocent children, whom the perpetrator clearly had access?
              If Paterno knew that Sandusky was still coming around and was alone with kids in the locker room, I'd say he had a definite responsibility to do something about it.
              I can't even imagine the lawsuits that will result from this. I'm sure the school carries some kind of pedophile insurance - my school is part of a consortium that has an insurance policy for child abuse - it's a crazy world out there.
              Enabler of DW and 5 kids
              Let's go Mets!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by diggitydot View Post
                I just can't get over that the dude was CAUGHT IN THE ACT and that the person who caught him didn't immediately kick the shit out of him while waiting for the cops they'd just called. Who sees that shit and doesn't immediately dial 911?

                I'm gobsmacked.
                I was shocked by this too but I was reading an article this AM by a lawyer who has been involved in many of these cases (including the Catholic church ones) and he said that while that's what you think you would do, most people are so horrified that they freeze up and don't do anything. They're so horrified that someone they know would do this that they don't confront it (in the act or afterward), they report it and try to push it out of their minds. I'm hoping/praying that I would do better but according to this guy who seemed quite knowledgeable, this is actually a "normal" (though still wholly unacceptable) response.
                Married to a Urology Attending! (that is an understated exclamation point)
                Mama to C (Jan 2012), D (Nov 2013), and R (April 2016). Consulting and homeschooling are my day jobs.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by SoonerTexan View Post
                  So sad

                  Surprised to hear the debate about Penn State, though--thought it was universally considered a public ivy.
                  The "public Ivy" designation truly only belongs to two schools - The College of William & Mary and Rutgers University. They have the same academic rigors as the schools in the Ivy League and were founded before the American Revolution, yet they are public, state schools whereas the other schools are private.

                  There are books about public Ivies that include Penn State on their list, but I think they just listed the flagship state universities. I'm not denying the academic prowess of any of the schools they listed, my opinion is that it is just a list of state universities (without having read the books).
                  Event coordinator, wife and therapist to a peds attending

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by scarlett09 View Post
                    The "public Ivy" designation truly only belongs to two schools - The College of William & Mary and Rutgers University.
                    heh. That's flattering, about Rutgers, but I'd have to disagree. vehemently.
                    (this is way, way off topic)
                    (I did my phd at rutgers, have nothing against the place, but it's no ivy. and "academic rigor" are not words that come to mind when thinking RU)
                    Now, William and Mary - it must be a cool place, because it shows up in a Steely Dan song!
                    Enabler of DW and 5 kids
                    Let's go Mets!

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                    • #25
                      off topic again... ivy league is an athletic conference. it originally had no implications of academic rigors or distinction. i'm so over schools that strut around like proud peacocks when they really aren't shit.

                      the whole situation is sickening. having had to report an incident of abuse, it's not as easy or clear cut as you think it is. and while it is not a position that i would take, i can see how others forgo reporting these incidents. nonetheless, i believe that reporting known abuse is always the "right" thing to do.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by fluffhead View Post
                        heh. That's flattering, about Rutgers, but I'd have to disagree. vehemently.
                        (this is way, way off topic)
                        (I did my phd at rutgers, have nothing against the place, but it's no ivy. and "academic rigor" are not words that come to mind when thinking RU)
                        Now, William and Mary - it must be a cool place, because it shows up in a Steely Dan song!
                        Continuing off-topic for a moment:
                        Fluff, even though you did your PhD there, you don't agree? I think of academic rigor in terms of the accomplishments of its faculty and alumni, as well as the stature of its programs. A lot of the programs are excellent, such as: library science, philosophy, communication, women's history, law, business, etc. But you know that I'm biased. And what Steely Dan song is W&M mentioned in? I love me some Steely Dan.

                        Back on topic: starting to see a lot of news articles floating around today about Penn State planning Paterno's departure. There was supposed to be a news conference this afternoon, but it was cancelled. I thought I heard something about another news conference at 5:30PM, we shall see what interrupts the local news here. NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sp...t.html?_r=2&hp

                        Some of you have made a great point about seeing a horrible act like this and being frozen and in shock. But what about those who did not witness it? Do they still have an obligation to contact the authorities even if the witness cannot? I believe that they do.
                        Event coordinator, wife and therapist to a peds attending

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                        • #27
                          Sorry for the tangent -
                          Rutgers has some good programs, but when you circulate among the undergrads it's clear that the general environment, especially on the College Ave and Livingston campuses, is not one of learning and academic pursuits. It can't be compared to, say, princeton or even cornell.
                          Even the graduate programs lack the rigor of a Yale-type environment. Could you really say that RU is closer to an ivy than michigan? or berkeley? I did my masters at Columbia, and it's a world of difference between the two.

                          Originally posted by scarlett09 View Post
                          And what Steely Dan song is W&M mentioned in? I love me some Steely Dan.
                          "my old school"

                          whoa-oh, William and Mary won't do, well I did not think the girl could be so cruel, and I'm never going back to my old.....schooool
                          Enabler of DW and 5 kids
                          Let's go Mets!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by fluffhead View Post
                            Sorry for the tangent -
                            Rutgers has some good programs, but when you circulate among the undergrads it's clear that the general environment, especially on the College Ave and Livingston campuses, is not one of learning and academic pursuits. It can't be compared to, say, princeton or even cornell.
                            Even the graduate programs lack the rigor of a Yale-type environment. Could you really say that RU is closer to an ivy than michigan? or berkeley? I did my masters at Columbia, and it's a world of difference between the two.
                            Continuing way off-topic:

                            Yes, I would agree that the academic environment on those two campuses is non-existant. You know as well as I do that the other campuses have way more of an academic feel. I worked for a unit that had the highest undergrad GPA on the NB campus and it definitely wasn't located on College Avenue. And I don't feel that it is on par with those schools in the real Ivy League or Berkeley or UVA, it falls just below them.

                            I think I struggle with those schools who put their athletics ahead of their academics when they publicize themselves. All I can think of when certain state schools are mentioned is their NCAA D-1 sports and not how good their programs are or research that they've recently undertaken. I think I need to broaden my horizons and read some neutral pieces about these schools, as I'm clearly missing a big piece of the puzzle.

                            I'm gonna check out the Steely Dan song.
                            Event coordinator, wife and therapist to a peds attending

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by scarlett09 View Post
                              Some of you have made a great point about seeing a horrible act like this and being frozen and in shock. But what about those who did not witness it? Do they still have an obligation to contact the authorities even if the witness cannot? I believe that they do.
                              I feel for people who witness something so horrible. Especially if the perpetrator was a close friend, I imagine I would be so horrified and disgusted that I would freeze. I still think that even the witness should have reported something though.

                              As for the non-witnesses, they absolutely do have a responsibility. They have a legal obligation to report this and to follow up on it. Somebody dropped the ball big-time. Not to mention that the guy wasn't restricted access to the locker room or other young people after the incident. I think that's where I'm baffled by Joe Pa's reaction. Yes you report it and maybe you assume that someone else could handle it with the cops but the fact that you kept the guy on your staff, I can't imagine looking that guy in the face every day. I would have fired him immediately.

                              I'm wondering how (if at all) this situation would have been handled if it had been a 10 year old girl instead of a boy.
                              Married to a Urology Attending! (that is an understated exclamation point)
                              Mama to C (Jan 2012), D (Nov 2013), and R (April 2016). Consulting and homeschooling are my day jobs.

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                              • #30
                                It's so odd to me that every call in radio show, etc has people talking about whether or not the school would require him to further report this and what his legal obligations were. What ever happened to "do the right thing"? This is my new goal with my children because apparently, it is not common sense at all to just do what is right and help your fellow man (or child in this case).
                                -Deb
                                Wife to EP, just trying to keep up with my FOUR busy kids!

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