Santa?

[diggitydot]

Our kids absolutely love the holidays. Pretty much from Halloween to New Year's is their happy time.

While we've never been big on the mythical/religious things surrounding any holidays, our youngest (9 y/o) is still 100% positive that Santa exists. But, he's also the kid who watches "Elf" and "The Polar Express" year-round. He really gets into the spirit of being very kind and doing nice things for other people. He'll figure it out soon enough.

The gig has been up for the girls (ages 16 and almost 12) for a very long time, but they still get into it. They share the little dude's joy and excitement with NORAD's Santa-tracker while wearing ugly Christmas sweaters non-ironically and chugging eggnog and hot cocoa by the gallon.

[houseelf]

This thread has shocked me because I'm pretty sure the Santa ambivalence feeling is the inverse of the "Heck Yeah Santa is REAL!" that I encounter IRL with other parents. My husband's family was pissed off when my kindergartener asked me directly and I answered honestly. When a child asks you straight out, the authenticity of the parent/child relationship takes precedence over preserving the myth. Weirdly, DD seems more innocentl at the same age and hasn't asked too many questions. Per Rapunzel's advice years ago, I did tell my oldest that now he was part of the tradition and to allow other children to come to their own conclusions in their own time.

My children never Easter bunny. Ever. Seriously, even my fairy-believing daughter turned to me after seeing her Easter basket and said "Thanks Mom". She was four. She does set up fairy huts in the back yard, so I'm not sure why there is a delineation.

My girlfriends IRL told me Elf on the Shelf is a PITA because it is one more thing to remember during this time of year. Thank goodness for that heads up.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the responses here aren't representative of parents in general.

[TigerLily]

I am loving these responses. When we were kids, my parents would always ask us what WE thought if we asked. And they would let us put out cookies and stuff, and there would be a few gifts labeled "from santa", but they never went to great lengths. I think it was also a natural transition for us. I do remember my older sister telling me stories about REAL kids who actually met santa, to try to keep me believing. Although, she might have just been trying to make me look stupid, because she didn't really like me at all. hahaha
However, kind of in response to Heidi, we were never allowed to sit on Santa's lap at the mall or anything. We knew that those were just representing Santa. I'm pretty sure it was only because my mom didn't want to shell out the 12 bucks for a photo, but either way, we didn't do that.
When I really started asking about Santa, my mom had me read the "Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Clause" letter, which I've always loved.

http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/

Like I said before, this is our first Christmas with a kid who kind of understands things. She's 2, and I'm having fun telling her stories about Santa etc...but I also don't really want her to think that THAT guy from the mall who's lap daddy made her sit on is going to shimmy down the chimney in the middle of the night and leave presents IF she is good. I hope I can keep Santa not scary, but magical, and still keep the real meaning of Christmas for her.

BTW I also really love the idea of telling kids that some celebrate the Santa side of Christmas, and that it is very real to them. A friend told me of a friend who was called into their child's school because their 3rd grader was telling other students that Santa isn't real. What a strange position to be in, right? Being called into school because your kid is telling the truth to other kids? haha

[MrsK]

I've been wondering what to do about Santa in our household. We are the only Jewish family at daycare, in our neighborhood, and, if we stay here, we'll likely be the only Jewish family in the elem school too. I don't want my kids spoiling Santa for other kids but I don't want them thinking that thjey are left out because they aren't "good" boys. For now, I'm glad that my 2yo is afraid of Santa because I just have to keep telling him, "don't worry. Santa is not coming here."

[Vanquisher]

FWIW, my kids don't ruin it for other kids. They understand that it would be mean and don't share their disbelief.

[GrayMatterWife]

My son doesn't ruin the "Santa is a real person!" magic for others, either. He understands that other families like to pretend, and that he should not interfere with that.

Mrs.K: I have tons of Jewish friends, but I've never heard the concern raised quite that way--focusing on the "good little boys and girls" premise of Santa's visits. That's interesting. How do you think you'll handle that?

And, since we're on the mythical giftgiver theme, I'd second the "no Easter bunny" thing. There was just no way that I could colorably sell to my children that I would permit a ferrel rodent bearing chicken eggs to wander around my house at night. There's no way they would have believed that. And we don't do toothfairy stuff, either. I usually buy DS a little Lego kit, though, to help him celebrate.

[Vanquisher]

I thought of another very positive reason for the no Santa thing. My kids always felt special because they were in on this grown-up knowledge that it was a myth. We also got to talk about the fun science facts about how it would be impossible, which Ryan thought was wicked cool.
http://www.chainreaction.com/santaclaus.htm

[MrsK]

Abigail, I'm not sure. I asked our parents. MIL says that DrK was always afraid of Santa. My mom does not recall what she did but she remembers my brothers and I upsetting other parents when we spilled the beans at a holiday party. She says she was mortified because she didn't want to tell us that Santa was real.

[MrsK]

I do, however, remember growing up and seeing Santa on TV all season long and every show/commercial talking about how Santa only visits good boys and girls. We lived in a large Jewish community so it was okay. But I think it would be logicial for the only Jewish kid to conclude that Jews are not good.

BTW, we have already been exposed to the "happy birthday Jesus" display at the day care, Easter baskets with color-coded jellybeans ("red is for the blood he spilled, black is for the sins he washed"), and prayer in school. This is at the day care. BabyK is just starting to notice this stuff.

You know, MrsK, I might say something to your daycare about that. You're paying good money and you don't need your kids being proselytized to, kwim?

[MrsK]

Well, aside from Kindercare, the day cares here are almost all faith based (even the YMCA). The one our kids attend is very highly ranked and is conveniently affiliated with the hospital where DrK works. It's a Catholic hosipital (he's not allowed to prescribe BC for patients either even if they are bipolar and homicidal. He's treated women who have attempted suicide in the maternity ward.) The director of the school is a nun. We have a good rapport with her and have discussed religious curriculum with the teachers and attempt to place our kids with the teachers that are the most open (provided that their classroom is otherwise acceptable) and have opted out of some of the projects (letters to Santa). BabyK's teacher made a point of reading Channukah books last week and has stuck with mostly secular lessons.

[MrsK]

It's a fine line here too. The rabbis say that the Jewish community has a rather tentative relationship with the Christian community and they try not to make waves because it reflects poorly on us. They save it for city-wide celebrations scheduled on Yom Kippur and things on that scale. (Jewish leaders had a quiet meeting with the Mayor and invited him to participate on our ceremonies.) I did, however, quietly inform the manager at the grocery that he should not keep shrimp in the kosher freezer. Most of these events are ignorant and not malicious. Even at the day care, it's just a way of life for some people and the assumption is that everyone lives the same way.

So far, I've gotten by with telling BabyK "some people do X, we do Y". For instance, they say grace at school. We say 'motzi. I don't object to being grateful for food. It does require us to be more observant in our home than we may otherwise be. But that's my responsibility if I want him to know our culture.

[peggyfromwastate]

If you send your kids to faith-based preK or school (even an affiliated) then I think it's reasonable to expect some of that faith's customs and teachings to be incorporated into the classroom. There is plenty of anti-religion sentiment in the public schools so as a Christian I've felt that having prek options that are faith based and reasonably priced is a great thing. I steer clear of non-faith based prek programs bc that's my personal bias- I want to keep it as much aligned with my beliefs as long as possible. My dd15 had a few run ins with the school system for "proselytizing" in early elem school... Example:the MLK jr project where each kid had to make a poster where they finish the sentence : I have a dream... She wrote "I have a dream that one day everyone will be a Christian.". I can see this would hugely offend some people. Her teacher said "you know most people aren't Christians and will never be...".

I am very clear with my kids--- they are to respect all other religions. And they do. My dd10 has a BFF who is a Buddhist and she was invited last year to see all the Buddhist gods they had set up in their home for a festival. And they explained all of them to her, etc. they weren't proselytizing, just sharing their customs. I think it's great to see all cultures and I always tell my kids that every single person chooses what they will believe in when they are old enough to make that choice. I tell them we have chosen for ourselves, but that each of them must choose in their time. And they are expected to respect their friends and their friends cultures. I do not support any kid saying "you will rot in hell if you don't do..." and when my kids tell me someone said that, I tell them the only one who decides who goes to heaven or not is God. And we should not presume to know how he will make that decision. He's in charge...

Anyway, MrsK I don't mean to offend, but I just don't think complaining about a nativity or jelly bean activity is justified if you choose to enroll in a faith based program. I know you were not complaining-- sounds like you approach it well.

As far as Santa, we are the wink-wink approach. I don't lie about Santa, but I evade the questions. I don't know if ds7 believes still. I doubt it. But along the way they learned that it's to their interest to "believe" because Santa only bro GD gifts to those who believe. Lol ds10 said "so I guess you and dad don't believe bc he never brings you anything.".

Anyway I don't see it as a terribly harmful tradition or anything. I see it as just a fun story. We have the elf on the shelf and the kids have enjoyed finding it. I needed 4 countdown to Christmas activities and I only had 3-- so the elf is the fourth. That way every kid gets to do 1 advent thing every day.

Anyway, to each his own. My kids have been told by other kids since prek that Santa doesn't exist. It doesn't rock anyone's world....

[peggyfromwastate]

By the way our elem school doesn't do Santa but they do cover many of the religions (not all, but they try) in their holiday singalong. They sing songs for Christmas, Channukah, and Kwanzaa. They made latkes in class last year, and I can never get dreidel dreidel dreidel out of my head bc the kids sing it all the time.

I really do like the multi-cultural approach to holidays. It opens up a lot of good discussions with our kids and I love exposing them to other cultures. Having grown up in a really homogenous place, I appreciate the diversity here so much.

I think my kids have benefited too- they see the complexity of life and religion and politics, etc.

It occurs to me that calling my elem school anti-Christian is not fair bc they are all inclusive and put a positive spin on everything. I actually like how they approach religion quite a bit. I don't even have problem calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree. Who really cares? Whatever! And we don't see Santa as having much to do with Christmas except for in the commercial/marketing side...

Interesting topic. Now I'll slink away and studiously avoid this thread bc I don't have the constitution for the debate forum!!

[GrayMatterWife]

Holy crap!! There is a color code to Eastertime jelly beans?! I had no idea. I like Jelly Belly Sours. Does that mean I have lost faith?

Mrs.K: for the first time in the US, I got a taste of being in the religious minority last week. We were out in Salt Lake City, at a a second-call job interview. While I did not find the LDS presence to be as overwhelmingly dominant and controlling as I thought it might outwardly be, it is a clearly LDS town and other denominations of Christianity, especially historical liturgical traditions, are definitely the minority and perceived as "other." People are super-nice, but my beliefs and traditions, to the degree that they differ from those of LDS, were clearly not mainstream. Which is why we are not considering public schooling there, which has open ties to the LDS church.

Plus, one of the private schools we toured is Jewish in its heritage and culture. It was started by the JCC. It accepts gentiles and actually has a majority gentile population. It preserves much of its cultural "Jewishness," though--including in its mission statement (which is in Biblical Hebrew), its "kosher-style" kitchen, observing Jewish holidays and celebrations, and hanging many handmade muzuzot on classroom doorways. It was definitely a thought-provoking experience for us--to consider sending our children to a school where they would not be in a culture of their own religion.