Santa?

[MrsK]

Peggy, I certainly wouldn't dream of complaining to a nun about faith-based lessons in her day care in which I choose to enroll my children. It's really more a question of how to teach my children in my home when the majority culture is different. If we lived among other Jews, my kids wouldn't feel that "Santa is for all the good little boys and girls...but not for you." (BTW, this happens in public school here too. Other families in our temple have had their kids' taunted for skipping the homecoming game/dance scheduled on Yom Kippur or told on the playground to "look out Jew cuz Hitler's gonna get you". In each instance their child was the only Jewish student in the class.) It becomes a fine line between teaching your children your minority culture and giving them tools necessary to succeed in the majority culture. It is unrealistic to sheild kids from other cultures, especially a majority culture. And I don't see the point in adapting our religious/cultural teachings to fit in with the majority culture (no Hannukah bush here). So there is always that conflicr. Which brings us back to things like "Jewish people don't believe Santa is real but, shhh, don't spoil it for everyone else and even though Santa skips our house you really are good boys"

[Deebs]

MrsK - I don't know what the right answer is. I think this is why even more reform Jews tend to live in clusters in larger cities. DH and I are so happy because his boss here is Jewish and it's the first time we've been able to go home for Christmas for a big chunk of time. DH doesn't even have admin call. But, when they both started, DH sat down with him and said, I'll work all the high holy days for you, if I can have Christmas totally off. Apparently, no one has ever offered that for him, and we think because those who could have were ignorant to the fact that the holiday starts the evening before what is labeled on a calendar. He and his wife (who probably don't know the full background of DH's bizarre childhood) always comment about how great we are to them around holidays, their son's Bar Mitzvah, etc. The reality is, we're not trying to go above and beyond at all - we just get it, and many do not.

ETA: I think this is also where a clear delineation of tradition vs. religious beliefs comes into play. I don't think you'd be betraying your religion at all to have Santa come, just as I am not betraying my religious beliefs when we have a delicious brisket dinner.

I didn't realize it was a faith based school. That makes sense. It sounds like you are handling it really well.

[peggyfromwastate]

Peggy, I certainly wouldn't dream of complaining to a nun about faith-based lessons in her day care in which I choose to enroll my children. It's really more a question of how to teach my children in my home when the majority culture is different. If we lived among other Jews, my kids wouldn't feel that "Santa is for all the good little boys and girls...but not for you." (BTW, this happens in public school here too. Other families in our temple have had their kids' taunted for skipping the homecoming game/dance scheduled on Yom Kippur or told on the playground to "look out Jew cuz Hitler's gonna get you". In each instance their child was the only Jewish student in the class.)

Shocked. That is beyond sickening.

[Pollyanna]

Shocked. That is beyond sickening.

Holy crap, that is so awful!

So do the public schools pay no attention to the Jewish high holy days? Around here all sports and activities are rescheduled even at private schools to accommodate those observing, and I don't think Tucson has a huge Jewish population.

When I was a kid we would always make crafts for Christmas and Hanukkah equally in our public school. Of course now the public schools make no crafts that may represent anything other than winter

[MrsK]

I don't have any personal experience with the public schools here but my friends have told me that they routinely have to send notes to school explaining why their kids should be excused from school and school functions on high holidays. I don't think the Jewish calender is taken into consideration. However, I understand that if there are fewer than 5 Jewish kids in the entire high school.

I grew up in a western suburb of Cleveland, and our schools did not recognize Jewish holidays - the ones on the East side did (and still do). Can you imagine how most parents would bitch if religious holidays were recognized when the overwhelming majority of the population didn't practice them? We had far more Hindu kids in our school than Jewish kids, and no Hindu holidays were recognized. I can just imagine the absolute outcry here (Kansas) if the schools wanted to honor or incorporate Muslim holidays? I can see why the "good little kids get Santa" thing would be problematic, and is probably why My dh's family always did Christmas (which I don't think is the answer). The first thing that came to mind was how my kids react during "grandparents day" here - there are none in the area, and my mom is dead). It's just another thing that has to be explained.

As to the awful Hitler comment, I can sadly see that. We've had neighborhood kids play "terrorsist" and be a Muslim. We've had kids tell my kids their grandparents are "bad" because they believe in more than one God. It has to do with the way parents raise their kids, and in a not-very-diverse area, sadly, a lot of people don't go out of the way to be inclusive.

As to the original topic, I don't understand the super negative /judgmental vibe on the "we don't do Santa" thing. Do it or don't do it, but inferring that peolple who do are basically teaching that their kids can't trust them is a big leap. I don't remember thinking I could no longer trust my mom because she perpetuated tradition that, frankly, I found magical as a child.

To clarify - the "can you imagine" wasn't directed at MrsK - it was in response to the other comments that grew up in areas that incorporated both Jewish & Christian traditions. I think MrsK knows the community she's dealing with

Holy crap, that is so awful!

So do the public schools pay no attention to the Jewish high holy days? Around here all sports and activities are rescheduled even at private schools to accommodate those observing, and I don't think Tucson has a huge Jewish population.

When I was a kid we would always make crafts for Christmas and Hanukkah equally in our public school. Of course now the public schools make no crafts that may represent anything other than winter

Wow. I can't imagine living somewhere like that. I went out here looking for some candles for the menorah today and I couldn't find any anywhere- Target, Walmart, World Market, Bed Bath & Beyond. I asked one guy if they had menorah candles in stock at Walmart and he looked at me like I had two heads! It doesn't really make me feel isolated since I'm not the one in the family who's Jewish, but I can imagine how isolated it must feel to DH and his family as they live around here too.

[MrsK]

I think I grew up in a town like pollyana's and moved to a town like hollyday's.

BTW, sorry for the hijack. I really meant to address the original Santa question because it was something I was thinking about before the op. I don't object to Santa and, if we were Christian, I think it would be fun to pretend. Just like some people mentioned the toothfairy. But I don't know how belief in Santa can work if Santa skips your house but visits all your friends and I don't know how a little kid processes that.

I went to a private school in south florida, about half the population was Jewish. All high holidays were given off, and every year the kids in high school were put in the auditorium for the day and watched schindlers list. While I know this was not the norm, almost all schools on the area gave those days off. Not until about a year ago did I realize that the song Feliz navidad, was not Feliz navidad....feliz Chanukah. Everything was even and no one thought anything about it. I do remember a few friendly discussions when we were little.... What was better..Santa or eight days of presents? I would agree you are probably more likely to find this in a place with a higher Jewish population, but they do exist. I am Christian but do miss shabbat at dinners at my friends house

As for Santa, no kids yet but I honestly could not imagine them growing up not believing. I don't think Santa and takes away from the religious aspects when approached correctly. The Easter bunny and the tooth fairy will also be visiting our house.

[Pollyanna]

As to the original topic, I don't understand the super negative /judgmental vibe on the "we don't do Santa" thing. Do it or don't do it, but inferring that peolple who do are basically teaching that their kids can't trust them is a big leap. I don't remember thinking I could no longer trust my mom because she perpetuated tradition that, frankly, I found magical as a child.

Same here.

We do Santa (we call him St. Nick), the Easter bunny, and the tooth fairy. I know that none of it waters down the religious aspect of the holidays for our children. Obviously the tooth fairy is not religious, just fun (although she sometimes is a bit forgetful, lol). I just find it all magical and such a fun part of the holidays and I have yet to meet an adult that was upset because their parents "lied" about Santa. We don't go visit Santa in the mall and I don't do the Elf on a Shelf or talk about being "good" for Santa (because I expect them to be "good" all year long). I think the letter "Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus" is a beautiful letter that I have shared with our older kiddos. We regularly tell our children that we hope they always "hear the sound of the bell" ala The Polar Express) because I don't want them to become adults that no longer enjoy the magic of life and the holidays simply because they know about the commercial Santa. We want them always to remember that Santa was a real person, not the guy with the elves and the sled in the North Pole but the Saint that was orphaned as a young child but followed his faith and sold all he had to give to the poor and needy, and even though imprisoned he continued to profess his faith.

[Thirteen]

Guys, I grew up in rural, small town, white, Judeo-Christian America in the Bible belt, and NO ONE ever used racial or ethnic slurs like that. Ever.
In fact, I never encountered any drama or racism until I moved to LA.
Count me in the shocked and saddened category.

I think belief in Santa is all in how you present it. We were never threatened with coal for Christmas, just as we were never threatened with hell or the devil for deviant behavior. Santa gave us stocking stuffers, and our presents came from family. We alway read seasonal books, made cookies, and left reindeer hay on the lawn. I never felt betrayed or lied to, nor did I feel that Jesus was Santa, or that Santa competed with our faith.
Santa still fills our stockings, and I'm 28. It always makes me smile, and I have nothing but fond memories.
One year, my sister told Mom that she wasn't so sure Santa was real...
My parents burned a fire that night, used my Dad's boots, and trailed boot prints of ash to the tree and back. They videotaped Christmas morning, as always, and caught my sister's pleased reaction to the boot prints. It is one of our fondest things to watch as adults.

We will be doing Santa in our house.


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[Pollyanna]

I think belief in Santa is all in how you present it. We were never threatened with coal for Christmas, just as we were never threatened with hell or the devil for deviant behavior. Santa gave us stocking stuffers, and our presents came from family. We alway read seasonal books, made cookies, and left reindeer hay on the lawn. I never felt betrayed or lied to, nor did I feel that Jesus was Santa, or that Santa competed with our faith.
Santa still fills our stockings, and I'm 28. It always makes me smile, and I have nothing but fond memories.
One year, my sister told Mom that she wasn't so sure Santa was real...
My parents burned a fire that night, used my Dad's boots, and trailed boot prints of ash to the tree and back. They videotaped Christmas morning, as always, and caught my sister's pleased reaction to the boot prints. It is one of our fondest things to watch as adults.

We will be doing Santa in our house.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Awww, what a sweet story. We've told the kiddos that Santa will always visit our home, even when they are grown

[Ladybug]

Santa visits our home too. DD1 is 8 yo and I've actually been thinking about how to answer if she directly asks me this year. She hasn't yet, but I will answer her truthfully and explain how Santa is inspired by the real Saint Nick (which we celebrate) and is a fun custom for families to build the anticipation for the holidays for young children. I'll include them on the other side of the fun so that they're invested in keeping the anticipation alive for their younger sibs. I'm going to leave the fire screen open and make foot prints with the ashes over to the tree. We eat the cookies and carrots (reindeers) too. I want to get some sleigh bells for someone to ring outside this year. We observe the advent season and the kids know the reason for the season and why we give gifts and acts of charity.

Our school gets all Christian and Jewish holidays off. It's awesome. Everyone gets to celebrate their own holidays and get the other days off too. It's a win-win. We don't officially take Muslim holidays off although the school teaches/recognizes them. Students are excused to observe their holidays. It's a growing, but still slight, popluation in our school so it will be interesting to see how that evolves.