Let's Argue! (About Babies!)

[Sheherezade]

I am also in the "you choose what's right for you and but out of other people's births" camp. My husband (when he was an OB) always said the goal was a healthy baby and a healthy mom and all other goals were secondary. Sometimes, he had people with birth plans that jeopardized their own safety or the child's and that was difficult on everyone on staff. He had one woman arrive at ugly JHU maternity from an outlying gorgeous birth suite hospital by helicopter transfer because the baby was in distress/premie/etc. and the hospital wanted her at a high level center instead and she sobbed for hours about the dreary atmosphere and how that was ruining her birth. OK, fine. Breath, lady.

I think I was lucky since my DH was on staff with each of my births so we had a lot of knowledge and a lot of control that other parents don't have. DD actually went on round with my DH when she was 2 hours old while I napped. All the residents got to ooh and ahh at her. That's a nice birth memory.

I was induced once and hated it. I was planning on induction for my second because DH would have the weekend off and I didn't want to get dumped at home with an on call husband, a one day old and a toddler with an unscheduled delivery. We had no family in the area. I ended up in labor the night before my induction -- I think because I KNEW if I didn't go in to labor I would be induced in the morning.

I had an episiotomy (very small) with number 1. He was over 10 pounds. It was really no big deal at the time. Very minor incision and I didn't have any issues with pain or healing. Interestingly (and frightening, frankly) I had issues with my episiotimy scar last year as that child (DS) turned 15. 15!!!!! I ended up with an abcess from some type of suture or something that progressed to a fistula and required 3 surgeries and 2 MRIs before they figured out what was going on. So....maybe I'm anti episiotimy now!! All better now but walking around with an infection in your pelvis for a year and 3 surgeries near your hoo-ha is no fun.

As for epidurals, I'm for them when done well. My first was awful. I was against and had nothing until I was ready to push with #2 - then had an epidural to push. It was very light and just took the edge off. I could have kissed the gas man. He was amazing and very skilled.

With all of these, I think some of the controversy comes from different levels of care in different places. The same procedure is not always the same in different hands.

I agree that you should be comfortable with your care team and have some level of trust in them before you go in.

[houseelf]

After four babies and three pregnancies, I'm sort of like, "Meh" about arguing about any of this. Baby is coming out, the rest is just semantics. I sure hope it goes the way you plan, but if it doesn't, it is probably the best introductions to parenthood you could get. LOL

DS one produced a significant tear which pained me for days and prohibited me from sitting without a doughnut cushion. DD had cord wrapped around her neck twice so there was a quick episotomy to get her all the way out. I sure am glad that my Ob did that. DS2 was coming out sideways so the epidural sure helped me cope with the painful turning process. All three of my kids needed pitocin at 40 plus weeks. I have slowwwwww labor and deliveries. I had epidurals for all three and thank God above that modern medicine could help a girl out. It kind of makes me glad that I didn't have to deliver in the old pioneer days. I'm pretty sure I might have been a victim of maternal mortality because my babies don't want to come out and take their sweet time.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that I don't believe anyone who is vehement about anything in parenting becausse everything about raising kids as so grey. I believed the nursing consultant who scared the bejesus out of me about pacifiers. Nonetheless, all three of my kids were passionate breast feeders and pacifier kids. I have coslept, spanked, bottle fed, breast fed, and a whole host of other debatable things. I have learned that a lot of this isn't up to me. My intent is pure and my conscience clear. I give them my best and pray that the universe conspires with us to raise the best human beings possible. All the birthing debates stem from an individual's first foray into parenthood which we foolishly try to grasp onto some core belief that if we follow, we will be assured of a good outcome. Life happens. Follow your heart and allow your sister to do the same.

end soapbox.

[Pollyanna]

1). I let my epidural wear off, so I could push and be aware of the pressure/sensation during delivery. I believe this did, in fact, prevent me from tearing more than I did.

Dh says the data shows less tearing with an epidural placed because the OB can more readily control the delivery. Anecdotally, the only time I did not tear was baby #3 when I had the mother of all epidurals. Seriously, the nurses hated the doc who did them because they took so long to wear off (he was also is rude and told inappropriate jokes). I however love that man dearly.

2). I am not sure why this still happens, and I'm in honest fear that if I'm ever 2 weeks past my due date in the future, they will induce me. My first and only labor experience was an induction, and even though it went much better than it could have, I still would not wish that on anyone. Ever.

Dh does not let anyone go past two weeks over due because it is bad for the baby as the placenta starts to break down. I was induced only with baby #5 and aside from the epidural not working in the perineum (shoot me now), it was kind of nice ACOG guidelines also say no elective inductions before 39 weeks.

3). Before pushing, I openly declared several times, "I refuse an episiotomy. I do not consent to one." to anyone who would listen. I think they make healing much harder, even than a bad tear, and I have a few friends who were not too keen to have a 'vagasshole' to deal with. (Their words, not mine).

ACOG recommends against episiotomy. I had one with baby #1 (still has a 4th degree tear), baby #2 (no epidural, only a pudendal block), and baby #4.

4). We did it, it was weird, but I think it helped immensely.

DH stretches the tissues of first time mamas during the second stage of labor but does not do perineal massage. He tells his patients that they are welcome to do it because it doesn't hurt but it is not likely to help either. Obviously, it would not be my thing because if my hubby is going to be down there it's going to be for something fun

Dh has seen some birth plans that are scary as hell with the mamas only concerned about "the plan" and miss the bigger picture. I think DD's hubby also pointed out that the laminated birthplan is always the first step to a c-section. No matter what, the end goal should always be healthy mama and healthy baby. How you get there is up to you.

[madeintaiwan]

v

After four babies and three pregnancies, I'm sort of like, "Meh" about arguing about any of this. Baby is coming out, the rest is just semantics. I sure hope it goes the way you plan, but if it doesn't, it is probably the best introductions to parenthood you could get. LOL

DS one produced a significant tear which pained me for days and prohibited me from sitting without a doughnut cushion. DD had cord wrapped around her neck twice so there was a quick episotomy to get her all the way out. I sure am glad that my Ob did that. DS2 was coming out sideways so the epidural sure helped me cope with the painful turning process. All three of my kids needed pitocin at 40 plus weeks. I have slowwwwww labor and deliveries. I had epidurals for all three and thank God above that modern medicine could help a girl out. It kind of makes me glad that I didn't have to deliver in the old pioneer days. I'm pretty sure I might have been a victim of maternal mortality because my babies don't want to come out and take their sweet time.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that I don't believe anyone who is vehement about anything in parenting becausse everything about raising kids as so grey. I believed the nursing consultant who scared the bejesus out of me about pacifiers. Nonetheless, all three of my kids were passionate breast feeders and pacifier kids. I have coslept, spanked, bottle fed, breast fed, and a whole host of other debatable things. I have learned that a lot of this isn't up to me. My intent is pure and my conscience clear. I give them my best and pray that the universe conspires with us to raise the best human beings possible. All the birthing debates stem from an individual's first foray into parenthood which we foolishly try to grasp onto some core belief that if we follow, we will be assured of a good outcome. Life happens. Follow your heart and allow your sister to do the same.

end soapbox.

ditto.

With DS1, I was 2cm at 34 weeks but made it to my due date. I took birthing classes, planned to try to go without drugs, but wasn't against them. I did prenatal perineal massage. My ob did it while I was pushing too. I went in to be induced the day after my due date. They broke my water, hours later they started pit. I went 12 hours without drugs then got an epidural. I ended up laboring for 21 hours and pushing for 3 hours. I still remember the look on the nurses face [who had told me, "I BETTER push or else I'll have to have a c-section"] when she weighed my son after he was born via c-section. He was 10lbs, 7 oz. You could tell she felt really bad, which she should have!! I am convinced that there was no other way he would have been born and if it had been another time, we both surely would have died. I am very thankful for modern medicine and the options it provides.

Like someone else mentioned, I am sure setting and practitioner plays a role in your feelings. I felt satisfied with my birth outcome. I didn't feel cheated or my desires ignored. I could have cared less how he came out, as long as we were both healthy. My other two were born via scheduled c-section. DD was born at 38 weeks [8 lbs, 12 oz] per my request, which I will admit that to this day her colds go to her lungs. If I knew what I know now, I would have just waited until 39 weeks. I think the week does matter for lung maturity. And DS2 was born at 39 weeks and has been just fine.

[Vanquisher]

Healthy mom and healthy baby are all I cared about. That said, I really, really am uncomfortable with waiting (especially if you are certain of your due date) until 40+ weeks. IMO babies get too big, placentas degrade, and it leads to worse outcomes. I have seen two babies almost die as a result of this. One of my best friends (I was in her delivery room for over 5 hours while she labored and pushed) nearly lost her baby. He was born blue and with no heart beat. They had to do chest compressions on him and put him on a ventilator. He was 42 weeks and was just too big. They should have done a c-section, but felt that he was going to be okay. He was monitored the whole time. At the very end when he was pretty much out, they lost his heart beat. At that point, it would have taken them longer to get her to the OR. He is now a healthy 12-year old, but it really stuck with me.

I had severely degraded placentas with both of my babies (born at 38.5 and 35 weeks). They were both healthy 7 pounders. I don't think there is a one size fits all here, but I think inductions can be VERY good things, and there was no way in hell I was going to go past my due date with Lexi. Turned out there were medical reasons she was induced even before 37 weeks, but I digress.

My birth plan was:

Get baby out as soon as possible for healthy outcome (I was f'ing miserable).
No vacuum (do c-section instead).
Any signs of distress = c-section.
Healthy mama, healthy baby.
Epidural? Yes, please.

Turns out my epidural wore off with Lexi and I was not a fan of feeling that. Either way my labor and deliveries went fairly well. I had small (one stitch) tears with both. Labored for 7-8 hours with both. Pushed like 3 times with both. Puked during both labors and pushing with both (not like that was anything new). Felt immediately awesomely better after the deliveries. Asked for food as both kids were being weighed and cleaned off.

I was induced with both kiddos and on pitocin. I can't imagine having been pregnant ONE MORE SECOND with either of them.

[diggitydot]

I think those are all medically necessary reasons to induce labor.

I mainly take issue with peeps who have no reason and don't give a shit how it impacts their baby. DH had a patient at 27 weeks start asking him to induce her. Uh, no. She kept telling him that she was just tired of being pregnant. He essentially told her it was tough shit because he wouldn't induce her unless it became medically necessary. She was a real peach.

[HouseofWool]

Holy shit, 27 weeks? I was asking for an epidural then, tongue in cheek. And when I was going to be induce with S, we were going to sweep the membranes a couple times and see what happened. Nothing super invasive.

[MrsK]

27 weeks is absurd. I was sick 12 times daily during my 1st pregnancy and I even argued with my OB when she sent me for an emergency c-section at 37 weeks. The baby was measuring small and I was worried. If the OB thought I could have carried that baby even one more day without putting him in jeapordy, I would have.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

DH had a patient at 27 weeks start asking him to induce her. Uh, no. She kept telling him that she was just tired of being pregnant. He essentially told her it was tough shit because he wouldn't induce her unless it became medically necessary. She was a real peach.

That. is. idiotic.

[diggitydot]

Yup, that was also the same patient who called OUR HOME numerous times when the answering service wouldn't page DH, had her husband call the service several times and lie that she was in labor to get them to page DH, and also asked for narcotic pain meds even though she'd been informed what she could and couldn't have about a bazillion times.

Yeah, *that* is the kind of unnecessary inductions that I was talking about.

[Thirteen]

All the responses are super interesting: it's amazing to see the experiences and how they differ.
I posted in Debates because I knew it's such a sensitive issue.
For me, it is nice to know that we can just have a conversation about all this. Many women I know have expressed a desire to openly speak about birth or post-partum issues, but seem to clam up for fear of being the odd one out, or bashed on.
I spoke briefly with ST about this today.
I am always amazed at how birth, regardless of circumstances, is often something that my friends have mixed emotions about.
"I wish someone had told me..." is a sentiment I hear too often.
Have you found this to be true amongst your friends and family?


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[SoonerTexan]

I wish someone told me that birth is the easy part of parenting

[houseelf]

I wish someone would have told my nervous self that no matter what happens, it is only one day. You will look back on it as one of the best days of your life. Come on, you can do ANYTHING for a day.

Hopefully anyone who is pregnant or wants to be at some point has stopped reading this thread now!

Epidurals: do they possibly encourage a more severe degree of tearing than what could naturally occur during delivery?
My experience -
birth #1 - epidural - stuck on my back - baby couldn't get into a good position for delivery and didn't move an inch when I pushed for 3 hours - vacuum assisted delivery - 4th degree tear.
birth #2 - unmedicated - "fetal ejection reflex" (I didn't "push" her out my body just took over) - 3rd degree tear (probably because I had previously torn and my DD came faster than was expected so my Ob couldn't control the delivery as much as she intended).

Selective Induction: aside from mandating maternal/fetal health problems, do you believe this is a good idea?
No. But if the mom and doctor are okay with it, to each their own. I was induced at 41 1/2 weeks with my second because I had the option of a "gentle" induction at that point (where I could try cervidil and then go home for a couple days if nothing happened) or a cervidil progressing to Pit at 42 weeks. My Ob would not let me go past 42 weeks. The cervidil worked the first time.

Episiotomy: an outdated practice, or something needed to prevent severe tears during deliver?
I had an episiotomy the first time so she could use the vacuum. I will say that my recovery was a million times easier from the "natural" 3rd degree than from the episiotomy that tore to the 4th degree. That sucked and I came close to having a C section the second time to avoid going through it again.

Perineal massage: crunchy and unnecessary, or a wise and helpful decision to prevent tearing?
My Ob thought it was bunk (2nd time, I wouldn't have had a clue the first time) so I didn't do it. In her opinion (having experienced a bad tear herself) the best way to prevent tearing was a controlled delivery to allow gradual stretching, using oil and maybe a side lying position. But she walked in the room when my DD's head was already out, so it was little late to try this, lol.

And I wish someone had told me that you actually have very little control over how your birth will be, and your support people can make or break the experience. I mean my two births had the same outcome but I still get choked up thinking about the first, and warm and fuzzy thinking about the second, mostly because of the difference in doctors and nurses.