Let's Argue! (About Babies!)

[niener]

Hopefully anyone who is pregnant or wants to be at some point has stopped reading this thread now!

For some sick and twisted reason, no I have not (probably because I watched The Business of Being Born the other night so now I'm all curious about other people's experiences), but now I'm rather wishing I had after reading about your 4TH degree tear! Seriously I didn't even know it went that high. Bless you.

ETA: I'm in the later category ("wants to be at some point"), not the former. Just in case any of the enablers start thinking they've hooked another one

[GreyhoundsRUs]

ETA: I'm in the later category ("wants to be at some point"), not the former. Just in case any of the enablers start thinking they've hooked another one

All in good time...

[v-girl]

I don't really have much input on the questions asked (I can only get a baby out via c-section). My sister has the same issue I have and had her only child by c-section. Knowing I am in the same boat (we don't dilate for some reason), she actually told me that she didn't feel like she had really delivered her baby right because she had to have a c-section. Gee...thanks. Guess I didn't really give birth three times.

For women who can only deliver that way, speaking of c-sections like they are evil and horrible doesn't make women who are stuck with them feel like chatting about the whole birth experience. I haven't had this experience with any IMSN friends, but have actually had a stranger tell me I just didn't try hard enough and should attempt a v-bac. Umm...no. I would like my uterus to not rupture. I have also had acquaintences talk about how awful c-sections are and how they shouldn't be used, etc.

Sorry to be the downer.

[SuzySunshine]

For women who can only deliver that way, speaking of c-sections like they are evil and horrible doesn't make women who are stuck with them feel like chatting about the whole birth experience. I haven't had this experience with any IMSN friends, but have actually had a stranger tell me I just didn't try hard enough and should attempt a v-bac. Umm...no. I would like my uterus to not rupture. I have also had acquaintences talk about how awful c-sections are and how they shouldn't be used, etc.

Sorry to be the downer.

You're not the downer, this is a problem with women In general, I ran into the same thing when I had medical issues that affected my breastfeeding, I wasn't trying hard enough and people just can't keep their mouth shut sometimes.

I had an episiotomy with A because she was born by forceps, it was either try that or have a C section. Her recovery was MUCH harder then R's. I tore with him but it was minor comparatively and I recovered much more quickly. I had epis with both of them and it was fine but I couldn't really feel to push with R, however I did push and he came out just fine even though he was significantly larger then his sister. My birth plan was that I wanted drugs as soon as possible with both of my children and wanted to avoid a c-section at all costs. Both labors were different but fine.

[MarissaNicole]

I've been hesitant to have too strong of opinions because I feel like friends that had really specific birth plans only ended up disappointed. I also think the fact that DH is a doc has me a little more laid back for two reasons: 1) Docs/midwives have the knowledge and expertise and know far more than I do. They want healthy babies and I have to have that trust with my doc that they will do what's best for me and baby. 2) Because DH does have a medical background I trust that he can be my advocate and communicate with the staff and make decisions for us when I otherwise may be irrational or unable to fully comprehend the details.

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[TulipsAndSunscreen]

Marissa - so I thought the same thing about my dh advocating for me/our wishes but my on strongly recommended a doula for this reason. She said that in her experience it's really hard for MD spouses to see each other in pain and uncomfortable for them to have to dictate to other specialists the wishes of the mom. My dh did not want to be in the position of having to strongly communicate anything to attending physicians especially those outside his intended specialty.

Our plan is to have dh talk to the attending when we arrive but have our doula handle it after that. Dh wants to 'catch' so we'll see how that goes...

[niener]

Dh wants to 'catch' so we'll see how that goes...

Hey mine does too! Do let us know how that goes, I'd be curious since DH is all about it.

And V, to your point, there aren't many people I'm comfortable talking to about birthing options either. I'm always surprised how dang opinionated the average woman is on the subject and how quick they are to judge if you didn't do something EXACTLY the way they would have done it. I mean you're healthy, the kids are healthy, that's the most important part, but to assume you "just didn't try hard enough" (I heard that phrase from a friend just this past week in regards to breastfeeding and it really irked me) is completely out of line.

[PrincessFiona]

I love this thread and hearing about everyone's thoughts and experiences!

Giving birth is such a powerful and personal experience!

Epidurals: When I was pg with my first, I had a detailed, super-crazy birth plan that was so unrealistic! One of the things one my list was no epidural ... the others were ... no episiotomy, induction, c-section etc. Too bad I didn't have you guys then to slap me upside the head and tell me to get over myself! LOL My first epidural only worked on one side, but it was still golden to me. My second epidural I had done in the UK and they didn't do it until I was 6cm or so ... I tried the gas, btw, and it was good to a point ... don't know why they don't use it here. I don't think they necessarily encourage more severe tearing, but I only have anecdotes to go on. I think that good pain control is important for a mom and whatever works for each individual is up to them. I sort of get weary of the whole no pain meds movement .... because I know those people aren't running to the dentist getting root canals and endodontic surgery without some sort of anesthetic ... but when it comes to your hooha it's supposed to be as painful as possible? NO thanks.

Selective Induction: Not a fan for things like timing vacations etc. I was never allowed an induction to time things and I personally don't think it's appropriate. My feelings are based on someone I know who had an induction at 38 weeks and then ended up with a baby in the NICU because she wasn't ready to be born even though she was technically 'term'. There is a reason she hadn't gone into labor yet. I had Amanda after my mom had come and left the UK waiting for the birth...she was more than a week overdue. At the end of the day, it was annoying, but ... whatever. I just think that sometimes people get to caught up in the discomforts of pregnancy and forget that baby is gestating. But that's my opinion. I also had a friend during residency that gave herself some laxative concoction to get labor started when her mom was at the end of a visit ... and she end up with terrible cramping and diarrhea ... and contractions ... but no labor. She was miserable ... and then when she did go into labor the next day or so, she felt crummy the whole time from lack of sleep and her diarrhea!

Episiotomy: Was on my no list, but ended up with a vacuum assist (also on my no list LOL) with my second. It healed terribly and I actually thought I was going to need plastic surgery for awhile. LOL. TMI, I know! Despite this, I had no tearing at all with #3.

Perineal massage: Would have freaked me way out. I think though that whatever works for someone is good enough for them.

At the end of the day, I agree with everyone who says that it's important to be flexible. I also think having a birth plan of sorts is ok ... but that should also be flexible. My experience is that birth plans are a good thing when you are flexible and so is your caregiver (OB or midwife). When you are inflexible or your caregiver scoffs at anything that isn't "woman in stirrups and monitored" ... it won't work.

I go to a book club with OBs who laugh at patients and their birth plans. Funny thing? They are all moms who as OBs never allowed "x, y, or z" as a privilege of their training and knowledge....so birth plans were ok for them ....but not for you and I. (I have pointed it out, btw! LOL)

The best experiences with birthing that I have had are when I feel that my caregiver understands what is important to me (ie breastfeeding as soon as possible, trial of labor, whatever ), is honest with me, and where I was flexible about outcome.

Just my .50 cents!



Kris

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

I haven't had my baby yet but I feel like my birth plan was a good way to have an open discussion with my ob. I adjusted some things after speaking with her and it got us on the same page. Now whether it 'works' or I end up with something different (pretty likely) I feel like at least I have more info and at least started in the same page as my ob.

[spotty_dog]

I haven't had my baby yet but I feel like my birth plan was a good way to have an open discussion with my ob. I adjusted some things after speaking with her and it got us on the same page. Now whether it 'works' or I end up with something different (pretty likely) I feel like at least I have more info and at least started in the same page as my ob.

Yes! And you've also given your DH and doula something to refer back to. I'll never forget when my DH stopped the nurses from hooking up the external fetal monitor because I'd asked in my birth plan not to have continuous monitoring. (I quickly assented to a brief strip for them to have a baseline, but was so grateful that he stood up for me!) And also with my second birth, which was too precipitous for the midwife to make it, he caught the baby and then put her directly on my chest per the birth plan. Birth planning was my "thing" and not his, so this wasn't stuff we really had extensive conversations about -- bullet points were much better.

[ladymoreta]

Epidurals: do they possibly encourage a more severe degree of tearing than what could naturally occur during delivery?
Don't know, but I wouldn't willingly deliver without one! Mine have been wonderful! I have a really high pain tolerance, but I don't want to be in any kind of pain if I can avoid it. When DD first started measuring big, I asked DH if I might be less likely to need a c-section if I didn't get an epidural so I could try other positions and feel what was going on, and he said in his experience getting an epidural helps most of his patients deliver vaginally rather than needing a c-section, since they can rest a little before pushing more. I was more concerned with a c-section than tearing, so I didn't ask him his experience about that (although he's almost never there for the pushing part, so he probably doesn't know). I had an epidural with both and had a second degree "tear" with both (first was an episiotomy).

Selective Induction: aside from mandating maternal/fetal health problems, do you believe this is a good idea?
I went into labor on my own with my first and was induced at 39 weeks 6 days with my second because she was measuring big. I'd prefer to go into labor on my own, but again, I was terrified of needing a c-section. (See above - I want to avoid pain as much as possible!) My induction was a great experience. I was at about 4-5 cm dilated, but not in labor, so my doctor stripped my membranes and started pitocin. I started contracting immediately, but they weren't painful. He broke my water at 7 cm, and said I could have an epidural whenever I wanted. I waited about an hour, and the contractions started being uncomfortable but not really painful, so I asked for the epidural. Yes, wimp, I know! I had the kind where I could push the button for more, but I never needed to.

Okay, back on topic... Selective inductions are very common here. Most of the moms I know are induced, even first time moms. I think most wait until 39 weeks, though. A few have ended up in c-sections, but most have been just fine. I'm sure they would feel terrible if their babies had health problems, but honestly, none of them have. I was a little judgemental of them prior to my induction, but after having my own semi-selective induction, I'm kind of "meh". It's their kid and their body, and as long as they're not inducing at 20-something weeks (crazy lady!), it seems like it's fine.

Episiotomy: an outdated practice, or something needed to prevent severe tears during deliver?
I had one with my first and tore naturally with my second. Both ended up being second degree, so it didn't seem to make a difference for me. Who knows... The pain wasn't bad at all. They gave me pain meds in the hospital, but I never filled my prescription when I got home and did fine with Advil as needed. Much worse for me was the hemorroids and fissure, but that's another story.

Perineal massage: crunchy and unnecessary, or a wise and helpful decision to prevent tearing?
My doctor did it during pushing for my first. I don't know if he did for my second. Probably, since we were just trying to do everything we could to get her out, but he didn't mention it. I didn't do it before labor.

I love hearing birth stories, and I find it fascinating how different everyone's experiences are. Great thread!

ETA - I didn't have a birth plan. I just went with whatever my doctor thought was best.

Havent read the replies, but No, epidurals do not encourage tearing (IMO). I think they encourage lithotomy and immobility. Yes, the literature shows that elective induction in a nullip w an unripe cervix increases cesarean section incidence. No, I would not electively induce prior to 39 weeks and that's supported by acog. Routine epis is very clearly associated w more 3rd and 4th degrees.

Perineal massage, no thanks. I'll support the perineum and I'll pour on mineral oil as the baby is crowning, but I'm not getting all up in someone's vagina ironing out the oerineum. I think that increases blood flow to the area which can increase swelling. Perineal support and controlled delivery of the head, huffing with short pushes after the head crowns instead of trying to blow the baby out, that's what's going to make a difference in tearing.

[v-girl]

instead of trying to blow the baby out

Anyone else get a visual of a woman shooting a baby out of her hoo-ha like one of those marshmallow shooters? LOL

[spotty_dog]

Anyone else get a visual of a woman shooting a baby out of her hoo-ha like one of those marshmallow shooters? LOL

I'm thinking more like Austin Powers. "Hey buddy, don't force it, you've gotta relax! You're gonna blow out an o-ring!"