Religious Observances During Residency

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

I caught up via phone the other night with a friend who is in her 2nd (almost 3rd) year of internal medicine residency at a large, well-known academic hospital. She said things were going well but she was annoyed about Easter.

Apparently, months in advance, she had asked for Easter off. Her DH, a neurosurgery resident, had also requested the day off and they looked forward to spending the day together and attending church. She's an observant Catholic and attends Mass pretty much every weekend. She was dismayed, however, when the schedule came out that she was not granted Easter off. She ultimately decided not to complain but she was especially unhappy because there are several Orthodox Jewish residents in her program who never work on Saturdays.

I was taken aback that a residency program was even able to accommodate the ability to not work ANY Saturdays. And I was sad for my friend that her one-time request to celebrate such a holy day was ignored when clearly the program respects these requests from others.

Then I thought, well I know Orthodox Jewish observants are not allowed to use technology during their Sabbath so that's an exception perhaps. But then I thought, why should anyone get a pass? Aren't there lots of residents who would like time off to practice their own religion, spend time with their families, etc.?

Thoughts?

[SuzySunshine]

You're going to find that everything is program specific. In DH's residency program the chairman was jewish so he regularly volunteered to cover things so that others could have important holidays off that didn't affect him, and he had a family and six kids. However I have seen, both in our program, and others were schedules were made to go out of the way for jewish residents and not others. I'm sure that will make someone defensive but its my/our experience both with jewish and non-jewish friends.

In DH's program, which was small, about 15-21 residents (total) depending on the year, but only about half of those on the schedule at the time it was largely dependent on who was making out the schedule and whether or not they were a team player.

Unfortunately programs can do, and will, do whatever they want to the resident's schedules and its all about whether or not the residents are a team or not IMO.

[corn poffi]

Nothing about residency is fair. When residents ask for holidays off, they usually get laughed at.

[diggitydot]

DH's program tries to accommodate requested time off, but all holiday time off is dependent on staffing needs and whether the resident is on a call block. Rarely does ANYONE get (or ask for) time off during call blocks.

[v-girl]

I remember having to go to Easter Vigil mass Sat night (8:30-11:30pm) because DH was scheduled to work Easter Sunday.

[ides]

Nothing about residency is fair. When residents ask for holidays off, they usually get laughed at.

It was like this at dhs program.

[alison]

There was a guy in dh's program who never took call on Saturdays. He was also lazy, so that made things even worse. During dh's chief year, they split 24-calls into 12-hour ones (7am-7pm and 7pm-7am), and I think he got many calls on Saturday nights during the winter time.

This may be unpopular, but I think residency programs at public universities need to observe all religious requests--or none.

[ides]

I agree, however its up to whoever is making the schedule & the pds biases. In dhs program if you complained about unfair treatment or preferences you were punished.

[GrayMatterWife]

Your friend's DH is a neurosurgery resident? Then she needs to get over it, right f**king now. Seriously. First, she sounds whiney. Second, no one will feel sorry for her--this is part of the deal. Third, if he complains, he will absolutely tank his reputation. Way not hard core--which NSGs cannot stand. Honestly, no one will care about her personal religious issues unless they absolutely have to, and then everyone will resent having to care. She should shut up.

Re: the orthodox Jewish situation. That is different. Orthodox Jews are required to abstain from work on the Sabbath. Most employers will try to accommodate that, to avoid a discrimination complaint. Observant Catholics are not required to miss work on Easter--they just prefer to, to observe the holiday most fully. (My understanding is that they are supposed to abstain from "servile" work, which would not include physician services.) They are, though, required to attend the mass on a day of obligation. However, mass may be missed for a "just reason" that does not need to rise to the level of a "grave reason." Her DH should talk with his priest about whether the requirement to work on Easter, against his request to be scheduled off, would provide for a "just reason" for missing the mass. Also, he is not required to go to the big, Sunday morning mass that everyone attends, and he is not required to go to the mass at his parish. There most likely will be a mass somewhere close to the hospital--even perhaps IN the hospital--that he can attend.

My husband attended a hard core, unforgiving neurosurgery residency program in terms of personal life stuff, and even there, they would have been able to figure out a way to give him a hour off, sometime on Easter, to attend a mass.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

Your friend's DH is a neurosurgery resident? Then she needs to get over it, right f**king now. Seriously. First, she sounds whiney. Second, no one will feel sorry for her--this is part of the deal. Third, if he complains, he will absolutely tank his reputation. Way not hard core--which NSGs cannot stand. Honestly, no one will care about her personal religious issues unless they absolutely have to, and then everyone will resent having to care. She should shut up.

My husband attended a hard core, unforgiving neurosurgery residency program in terms of personal life stuff, and even there, they would have been able to figure out a way to give him a hour off, sometime on Easter, to attend a mass.

He is a neurosurg resident and he was given off. She is an IM resident and was not. It's not a "get over yourself" situation. She didn't complain to anyone, she commented to me that she felt it was unfair that they observed/respected certain religious requests and not others. She went to work on Easter without complaint. She just wanted to attend Mass with her husband and fully celebrate Easter.

Technically, Christians are required to observe a Sabbath. Just because most people don't, doesn't mean that it should be less respected than Orthodox Jewish residents being required to abstain from work. A truly, observant, devout Christian (dare I say evangelical) may have the same issues with not observing a Sabbath. I know lots of Christian families who do not allow work, allow kid's games or playdates, etc on Sunday so they can observe the Sabbath as a family.

[Pollyanna]

As part of practicing nearly any faith I would think a main tentant would be to treat others the way you want to be treated. You do this without expectation that someone will "pay you back" or accomidate you. Yes, it's nice when it happens but I don't think it should be an expectation. Dh and I don't feel like it is the responsibility of anyone else to make it possible for him to observe his faith, that is his responsibility.

For Catholics it is super easy to attend Mass during residency. In most cities you can go to Mass anytime from 5pm on Saturday to nearly 10pm on Sunday night. There are literally Masses available to attend every hour on the hour (of course this is not always the case in smaller cities). Dh did not miss Mass once during residency but that simply meant we made it happen. So we did different Mass times, different churches, sometimes dh stood in the back and tried to stay awake leaning against the wall but we made it happen. We almost always went to Mass on Easter vigil vs Easter, it's just how it worked out. But had it now been possible missing Mass because you are caring for others is a just cause.

[GrayMatterWife]

He is a neurosurg resident and he was given off. She is an IM resident and was not. It's not a "get over yourself" situation. She didn't complain to anyone, she commented to me that she felt it was unfair that they observed/respected certain religious requests and not others. She went to work on Easter without complaint. She just wanted to attend Mass with her husband and fully celebrate Easter.

Technically, Christians are required to observe a Sabbath. Just because most people don't, doesn't mean that it should be less respected than Orthodox Jewish residents being required to abstain from work. A truly, observant, devout Christian (dare I say evangelical) may have the same issues with not observing a Sabbath. I know lots of Christian families who do not allow work, allow kid's games or playdates, etc on Sunday so they can observe the Sabbath as a family.

Sorry. I mis-read. That actually makes a lot more sense. I don't know many Orthodox Jews in NSG for that exact reason. You can't get every Saturday off without completely f**king up everyone else's life.

Yes, Christians are required to observe the Sabbath. But, unless the Christian is a member of an uncommon sect, she is not REQUIRED to abstain from all types of work to "observe the Sabbath." That is just the preferred practice. I also know lots of people who do not work (because that can choose not to work) on the Sabbath and spend the day only with family. But it is not required as to otherwise put them in a state or mortal sin or an equivalent. My FIL is an evangelical, fundamentalist Christian and a physician who regularly works on Sunday.

Plus, the "well, some Christians don't think is it OK to work on the Sabbath" argument doesn't even apply in your friend's situation. She's Catholic. RCs may work under certain circumstances and not break the Sabbath. So, the fact that some Christians think that you can't work, period, on the Sabbath is irrelevant to her situation because her denomination does not. She is not required to abstain from work, even if she wants to, and even if doing so would be helpful in the practice of her faith. The difference is whether she MUST, as a matter of the tenants of her faith, abstain from work (as Orthodox Jews and some Christians, but not Catholics) must, or whether it is just her preference.

If she genuinely thinks that, as a matter of her religious practice, she needs to abstain from work on Sundays or on days of holy obligation of whatever, she can talk with the program coordinator. But if she gets what she wants, she screws everyone else--who also might like to be at home with their families to observe the holiday, but aren't willing to use their faith in order to extort the advantage. Her position is disingenuous. She doesn't really need the day off; she just wants it because it would enhance her religious experience.

[diggitydot]

What are the ramifications for either a devout Christian or a devout Jew violating their Sabbath restrictions?

[Pollyanna]

I think if your religion requires no work on the Sabbath then that needs to be discussed during residency interviews and the person needs to be really up front about it with their fellow residents and then as an offering of good will be the guy or gal that takes the majority of the holidays, covers for vacations, etc.

[GrayMatterWife]

I think if your religion requires no work on the Sabbath then that needs to be discussed during residency interviews and the person needs to be really up front about it with their fellow residents and then as an offering of good will be the guy or gal that takes the majority of the holidays, covers for vacations, etc.

There are many residencies, especially in the northeast, that are well-equipped for accommodating Orthodox Jewish needs, and commonly have Orthodox Jewish residents. I know of few residencies that are equipped to offer the "Don't work on Sundays" accommodation for Christians--I assume, primarily because Christians historically have not understood the requirement that you observe Sabbath requires that you abstain from the practice of medicine--even though taking Sundays off may be preferred.

You should be very upfront with the residency programs; otherwise no one will be happy. And you should stay out of a speciality where such an accommodation would be practically impossible in residency--like neurosurgery. If your faith is that important to you and you are inflexible on the "I can't work on Sundays" idea, then pick a residency that will allow you to accommodate that priority.