Elmo

[TigerLily]

I don't think SS is all that different than say, Classic Winnie the Pooh. There are characters with different types of personalities and moods, and that teaches kids about people and the world in general. Honestly, I would rather have my kid watch a show that wasn't all flowers and sunshine, because that is just not how the world goes round. When my daughter is watching a show with a grumpy character or someone who is using bad grammar, I just use it as a teachable moment. Just my $.02.

100% agree. i love almost everything about Sesame Street. I really miss Forgetful Jones but other than that I think it is a GREAT kid's show.

[poky]

I don't really get the Elmo hate, either. Hating that giant purple fucker, Barney? Totally on board. But Elmo doesn't really bug me. Maybe because my kids were never crazy huge fans? I dunno. But I do like SS.

I don't get the SS hate, either; I actually like Elmo, despite my age. I do hate Telly with a passion, though. So. Annoying.

[alison]

I see your point, wgw. The counterpoint is that I view tv as a total escapist activity for dd. She gets to watch very little, and I cherry pick what she watches. She pretty much only watches Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood.

We live in the densest neighborhood in our city, so dd definitely sees all sorts of people.

[alison]

ps. Your potty training advice was right on, wgw, by the way. Thanks so much!

[weeniegeniewife]

ps. Your potty training advice was right on, wgw, by the way. Thanks so much!

Oh yay! I am so glad! Good job, mama.

[ladymoreta]

Haha! DH says I just have something against puppets - I don't like Muppets either. I don't even have a logical reason; they just never held my interest. The latest Muppet movie was cute, though.

According to Nurture Shock, seeing characters behaving well through the entire episode of a show results in much better behavior than seeing a show where the characters learn a lesson about why bad behavior is bad. I like Disney Jr, because a lot of those follow that rule. I think SS does too, right?

[Thirteen]

I'm not sure what to say about all this. Of course, I want it not to be true - at the same time, when more than 1 person comes forward, it makes it less likely to be someone seeking $ in a frivolous lawsuit. Predatory relationships, regardless of gender, orientation, or age, make me so sad.
DS loves Elmo - it happened by accident, since we didn't exactly push Sesame Street on him. In fact, he will watch parts of Sesame Street, but bores easily unless Elmo has screen time (Elmo's World). Something about Elmo connects with him, and he has a small Elmo doll/a few Elmo toys.
DH and I have talked about the ramifications of letting him watch long-term: will he be upset when he finds out about Clash? Should we stop allowing Elmo items in our home, etc. I'm not sure that boycotting SS, or Elmo, is the right decision for us. I think when we get to that point where discussion can be had, it will be a teachable moment where we hear what DS thinks about our parenting decision to continue supporting Sesame Street.

[MrsK]

According to Nurture Shock, seeing characters behaving well through the entire episode of a show results in much better behavior than seeing a show where the characters learn a lesson about why bad behavior is bad. I like Disney Jr, because a lot of those follow that rule. I think SS does too, right?

OMG, Stanley and the Dinosaurs! We have a DVD of of Stanley and the Dinosaurs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcXiYvtX8yk). It is a stop-action film made in the 80s based on the Syd Hoff book "Stanley". Basically, Stanley is a caveman who has new ideas that the other cavemen don't like. He says please and thank you, knows how to sing, figures out how to use tools, he's nice to dinosaurs, uses a fork, etc. He goes around saying things like "work smarter, not harder." The other cavemen exile him. He builds a house and makes a nice life for himself. Then one day, the cavemen get into a jam when they are out hunting dinosaurs and Stanley saves them. He takes them back to his house and they decide that his new ideas aren't so bad after all. K1's take away from this? (1) The first time Stanley sings, the cavemen tell him to "stop that noise!" Now K1 tells me to "stop that noise" when I sing. (2) When the cavemen hunt dinosaurs they work out a strategy. ". . . and you'll sneak up behind him and pop him on the bean." Now K1 is constantly threatening to pop people on the bean. Ugh.

[Pollyanna]

Hmmm, I guess Im in the "not really surprised" camp. There are evil bastards in every walk if life, even at SS. I am not sad about Elmo and don't understand why folks would stop letting their child watch him. The predator was not the cute fluffy red monster but a real life monster who simply played the voice of Elmo. There is someone else who will take over and play the part just as well.

None of our kiddos really liked SS but they do like the muppet movies ( as do dh and I, lol). They like Disney Jr and Sprout. Calliou on the surface is a sweet show but he is whiney and I think brings out whiney in kids. The only show we had to have the kids take a break from was Power Rangers because they were jumping off furniture and ninja kicking everything, lol

[diggitydot]

I haaaaaaate Calliou. Whiney little shit.

[Chrisada]

Ha, DD that's exactly what my FIL said about Calliou. Both my boys love him.

[Cinderella]

I think I need to make myself more clear because I've read through the responses and the accusation of being implied a bigot still bothers me. I support gay rights, gay equality, gay marriage, gay parenting. I've made posters and marched in gay pride parades with my friends and supported them on coming out days. I've attended and supported LBGT meeting in college. My roommate in college was a dyke. Some may wince at that word just like when the word "gay" is used to refer to someone but she and other lesbians I knew claimed it proudly. They taught me they aren't afraid of the labels and they don't see it as a bad thing. So when I use it I'm not using it in the bad way it was taken but as an identifier. The older dykes referred to my college roommate as "a baby dyke" because she'd just come out to her parents as a freshman in college. It didn't bother me and I supported her all the way and we're still good friends to this day. It was very interesting to watch her transform from this more feminine female to looking more like the teen star Zach Efron.

Not everyone is going to know Kevin Clash's name until it's dragged out long enough, and I assure you he'll be refereed to as the gay elmo guy by those unfamiliar with his real name long after he's gone and replaced. If you have two Kevin's working for you and one of them's gay are you going to avoid identifying him as the gay Kevin, or if one is black as the black Kevin? I suspect his replacement will have to contend with the tainted scandal the Elmo character was left with like it or not. He may even have to identify himself as the one that is not the "alleged pedophile" and distance himself from his predecessor That is if it's a him and not a her for the puppets replacement. Though I think pedophile is too strong a word for his case because it doesn't appear he was like Jerry Sandusky's case. After I wrote my question about Sandusky I guessed quickly someone would say refer to him as a "pedophile" and that'll be enough and I suppose that's right.

However, in Kevin's case it's different in that he's some middle aged gay guy that allegedly had inappropriate relationships with nearly legal jail bate. I realize that when people refer to him as gay the may mean it in a bad way, like when they still-to-this-day refer to Barney as the big gay purple dinosaur, but I surely did not mean it or see it that way when I referred to him as the gay Elmo guy. You just have to get to know me better to know how laughable that is that I'd be accused of something like that. I wanted to say something along this line before, but was caught off guard and surprised by spotty_dogs response, and then the follow up responses. More like flabbergasted and then taken aback for being blasted, but it's the debate section after all. I hope I've made myself more clear and you have a better understanding about me and please don't sweat it because it's not that big of a deal. I know you're good people, and I hope you know I am too, and that I often mean well. As my new self described progressive hippy Oregon neighbor would say, "It's all good."

I was part of the Sesame Street generation in the 80's, and some of the 90's because of my younger brother's and sister's watching it. They also loved Barney but it came at a time when I was transitioning into my teens, as did Elmo, so I have an idea of their popularity but I was never a fan of Barney or Elmo like my little brothers and sisters. I don't have kids either so I guess that didn't carry over for me to get the attachment to those characters. I grew out of it before then. Though I do enjoy seeing the renditions Sesame Street does of the popular TV shows and movies I've watched. I'm not sure if they're intentionally appealing to their older Sesame Street demographic to draw us back in and make it bearable to watch with our children, or are they mearly attempting to reference popular culture and stay modern with reinvention. I did find it a little awkward when the Elmo character was showcased in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade along with other Sesame Street character while the second scandal had broken the day before and Kevin Clash had resigned. It's kind of the like how many felt with the NYC Marathon being too fresh after a major tragedy had occurred and was still being dealt with.

Growing up I was a big fan of the Muppet's and had Kermit and Missy Piggy puppet dolls to play with. I also loved watching the TV show Fraggle Rock and the movies that included puppets like Dark Crystal and the Labyrinth. Actually I think that's why I still love those movies for it and of course there's Jim Henson who is like Dr. Seuss to me. Even though I haven't watched or really know much about Elmo other than the Tickle Me Elmo doll that became so popular and helped make the character popular after all that's happened in the media recently I'm conflicted about the Elmo character myself, and about the kids being exposed to the scandal of the man behind. Kids are smart and I'm not sure that's something that needs to be brought to their attention, dwelled upon and focused on as this drags out, but I'm also not sure it can be avoided. Like Michael Jackson's pedophilia scandal it may take someone's genius and star and hold it up to the spot light only to have the genius and fondness forgotten and faded when the mud slinging is settled.

Maybe Sesame should retire the character or put it on hiatus for awhile but if they do they may disappoint their fans and that may make it bigger. It also kind of forces parents to deal with a difficult issue that maybe needs to be addressed with their children in this day and age. That's part of the reason why I posted the link with my first response about a child predator in your circle. My friends that's a parent of two young boys posted it because she felt it was too important not to share. She urged her friends to inform themselves and discuss it with their children. But I have to ask a moral and ethical question and that is at what age is it appropriate? Child predators can and have picked very young kids before they're aware of material that may seem way beyond the maturity level of young children. At the same time if they don't know how to voice their objections to someone being inappropriate with them, or if a parent, guardian, or adult doesn't know how to handle the situation when a child mentions an adult was inappropriate with them in a sexual way that they may not know how to describe because it's all new to them then what? The predator gets away with it.

I'm finding it difficult even discussing or bringing up the ten thousand pound guerrilla in this sensitive topic in the debate section, so please forgive my words and phrasing sometimes if you find offense to it, because I probably don't mean to offend.

[diggitydot]

I in no way meant to imply that you were or are homophobic. Pedophilia and homosexuality have been unfairly lumped together over the years and besides being vastly unfair, is also imprecise.

The Sandusky case is very different from Elmo's puppeteer for MANY reasons. None of which have anything to do with the sexual orientation of the involved parties.

My only issue is with mentioning Sandusky's sexual orientation with regard to his victims' gender. As a pedophile, his orientation is towards *children*. That the children he was convicted of raping were male is immaterial. Sandusky as a man married to a woman likely self-identifies as heterosexual. Sexual orientation becomes immaterial when pedophilia is involved as they are frequently equal opportunity abusers.

[diggitydot]

Pedophiles are sexually attracted to children, but that doesn't make them all rapists. Some rapists are pedophiles, but many are not. Some pedophiles are rapists, but many are lot.

They are not synonymous.

[diggitydot]

However, I don't think pedophiles have an "orientation" towards children.

Let me clarify; pedophiles are sexually attracted to children. That is what I meant by oriented towards.

I believe they are individuals who desire to dominate children sexually for whatever sick motives might be ticking around in there - just as any other rapist might with adult victims.

Pedophiles' motivation is not to subjugate. Their motivation is the sexual gratification and the subjugation is merely a means to an end.

For that reason I find the term 'pedophile' ironic and deeply incorrect. (And, I say this as someone who grew up knowing not one but several pedophiles as a child - and somehow avoided their abuse).

Ironic or not, "pedophile" is the correct term for someone sexually aroused by children. And I say this as someone who has survived a pedophile and probably learned more than anyone should ever have to learn. Not that my information will be 100% correct because of it, only that I have maybe a different perspective or more intimate understanding of the subject.