The fiscal cliff

[GrayMatterWife]

We have a weak economy. There is no historic precedent showing that raising taxes on the wealthy in a weak economy raises revenue.

But, again, it doesn't matter. This is not really about raising revenue. The administration has zero sincere interest in raising revenue or cutting spending--it has repeatedly ignored it own commissions' advice on this issue. The agenda is about expanding govenment control and institutionalizing a government-dependent class. The notion that this is about solving the spending problem or the debt problem is laughable.

[BonBon]

The agenda is about expanding govenment control and institutionalizing a government-dependent class.

Yes. Our government doesn't give a crap about us, or future generations.

[Thirteen]

Yes. Our government doesn't give a crap about us, or future generations.

BonBon, I'm pretty sure you and I are similar on many subjects.


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[GrayMatterWife]

Yes. Our government doesn't give a crap about us, or future generations.

It is so sad. Our country was founded on the noble proposition that the Government was of the People. Now it is like some suddenly self-aware robot in a sci-fi movie--no longer controlled by its owner and creator, but run amok and about self-promotion and control.

And I am NOT suggesting that the Republicans operate with much different goals than the Dems! The only incentive I have to vote Republican is that they are incrementally less destructive. Unless, of course, you count being self-destructive--they seem to have well-mastered that.

[bobk]

Yes. Our government doesn't give a crap about us, or future generations.

I think you're probably right. I do wonder though if it's just a reflection of our current electorate. We have a massive cohort of retirees and soon-to-be retirees who will accept no reduction in their benefits. We also have a growing number of young people who have no interest in marriage and children (or if they do, have limited resources). These two forces combine to keep our interests in the short term.

[diggitydot]

Our country was founded on the noble proposition that the Government was of the People.

Let's be real. Our country was founded by puritanical colonialists who subjugated native populations. The establishment of a government for and by the people came much, MUCH later by very different people with completely different motives.

[v-girl]

Just came across this simplified calculator for the coming tax increases:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...cut-scenarios/

In our case, there's no difference between the Democrat and Republican plans, so each month we'd pay ~$100 with either or ~$200 more without.

Holy crap. ~$2K increase with Dem or Rep. ~$7K increase if no deal is reached.

[weeniegeniewife]

I just did our calculations and I am horribly sick to my stomach. Our taxes will go up more than a year of out of state college tuition for DH's oldest son.

[SoonerTexan]

Let's be real. Our country was founded by puritanical colonialists who subjugated native populations. The establishment of a government for and by the people came much, MUCH later by very different people with completely different motives.

They didn't found the US, they just settled here to escape other nations or colonize on behalf of another nation. And banned Christmas, depending on who exactly we are talking about I don't think GMW was referring to puritans

[diggitydot]

I don't think GMW was referring to puritans

You're probably right, but there is still a TON of whitewashing over how shit went down in the early days. And I say this as a descendant if multiple Mayflower families. The government that was eventually established was pretty far removed from the peeps who initially landed at Plymouth.

[SoonerTexan]

Well we recently watched Pocahontas (don't ask) and apparently a wise, peace loving tree that helps you find your true self was involved. And Pocahontas was very indignant at John Smith for using the politically incorrect "savage" vs...Indian? Native American?

Sorry now I'm just being a PITA. This has nothing to do with anything

[GrayMatterWife]

Let's be real. Our country was founded by puritanical colonialists who subjugated native populations. The establishment of a government for and by the people came much, MUCH later by very different people with completely different motives.

I wasn't talking about the Puritans, if you are referring to the Puritans by the reference to "puritanical." The Puritans were, essentially, Christian communists. They were very much into the idea of shared commonality of resources, as well as other aspects of life, including childrearing.

The Puritans (with a capital "P") though were not the ones who subjugated indigenous peoples. And Western Europeans as a whole certainly aren't the only culture that subjugated peoples in lands they encountered.

[Rapunzel]

Skipping over the Puritans tangent - Nothing like an economic collapse to bring people together! Seriously, I agree with most of what I've read here.

[Deebs]

When I posted earlier, my reasoning regarding going over the cliff isn't that it's truly what I want. I just think that our politicians are unwilling to work together to realize that we are WAY overspending at the federal level. If we just raise taxes or just make cuts, it isn't going to be enough. The size of our government terrifies me. It also made me sad that Boehner and Obama meeting yesterday made the news. I kind of think they should meet everyday until this gets figured out. I think that Obama is okay with us going over the cliff, and then blaming the republicans and that just sickens me. Our politicians have become so out of touch with real people, and this situation just exacerbates the feelings I had during the election. I wish these people would just do their jobs!

[moonlight]

Wanted to quit my second job next month. Now holding off until I know more about our taxes. Not knowing is a bit sucky right now.