Dear Prudence Advice to Female Ped Resident on Staff Relations

[PrincessFiona]

I disagree. You might consider it whiney, but we knew an IM resident who acted more masculine than traditionally feminine. We had her over to the house regularly and I found her nice...but the nurses would call her constantly about bs. She tried the "brownie method" and they ripped on her behind her back sensing a weakness and kept up the crap. It became really personal. It took male residents to get it to stop. The experience made her unhappy.

Women can suck big time...and knowing that doesn't make it right.

[ladymoreta]

I think the fact that Peds attracts a lot of female doctors and nurses means the odds are higher of having mean girl attitudes. Women working with other women often leads to drama, especially in a situation where the organizational structure isn't as clear. I would expect a different kind of pecking order in a specialty like surgery, because there's more male influence. So to say that she's weak because she's asking for a way to stop the nurse drama when surgery residents are "picked on" by their attendings is comparing apples to oranges. Most doctors don't make it through medical school without learning to deal with a**hole attendings, but there's not as much practice dealing with vindictive nurses.

But I agree, no brownies. Dumb answer, Ms. Prudence!

[Rapunzel]

One of the stupid side effects of living in a patriarchal society - Women act as "enforcers" towards other women meaning women are MUCH harder on women than men in the same work environment. And, a woman with a "man's job" immediately makes her a target of these female social enforcers.

It is unfortunate that we women still see the need to prove that we belong in what was traditionally a male job position. And, it is even more unfortunate that other women believe a woman should prove that she belongs in a traditionally male job.

I say this having just come from an economics conference this weekend where you could count on one hand the number of women in the room of over 600 people.

[Rapunzel]

And, I just about choked on the brownies advice.

Seriously?

The female resident writing the letter needs to develop a thick skin if she's dealing with jealousy (generational or otherwise) and she needs to immediately call staff on their bs. Because, a nurse intentionally forgetting a doctor's orders is potential medical malpractice. And, said nurse needs to have her thoughtlessness (purposeful or truly accidental) pointed out to her superior immediately.

It's better to be respected than loved. Screw being loved by the people around you. All that does is get you killed (just look at that famous guy in the New Testament ). And, if anyone is trying to sabotage you in your work environment you need to make sure that 1) You are perfection when it comes to your professional decisions and 2) There is a track record of the saboteur's harassment of you. That harassment needs to be couched in terms of danger to the patient and liability to the hospital.

[GrayMatterWife]

It's better to be respected than loved. Screw being loved by the people around you.

I really miss you, Rapunzel!!! So glad to see you and read your posts.

[scarlett09]

ITA. It's PEDS, for heaven's sakes. It is subspeciality that has a lot of women and attracts people, for the most part (but not all!) who are more nurturing (or, at least, more nurturing than surgeons...). I am really glad Scarlett wrote this--I was sort of afraid to. But my thought was: Honey, grow a set. Seriously. If peds residency is hurting your feelings, you are just a little to sensitive.

All of your collective experiences kept my perspective of DH's residency (mostly) in check. Anytime I wanted to whine about 2 weeks of nights, etc. I knew that there was someone here who was having it much harder (not that I wanted anyone to be in the throes of a crapfest, of course). Do I think that peds residency can be hard, especially because of the sick and dying kids? Absolutely. But on the shit scale, it's not on the same level as the surgery-type residencies and other types I am forgetting. We have an OB/GYN PGY-3 friend who took some big test post-call on Saturday and will be on nights for the next week. My point is that this chick in the OP lacks perspective on how bad it could really be.

I am not sure if there are more issues in peds because there are more women. I don't really think so. I could ask DH, but he oblivious to this stuff (as most of our spouses are). What have people experienced in other specialties that tend to have a lot of female residents (i.e. OB, ROAD, etc)?

[Auspicious]

I am not sure if there are more issues in peds because there are more women. I don't really think so. I could ask DH, but he oblivious to this stuff (as most of our spouses are). What have people experienced in other specialties that tend to have a lot of female residents (i.e. OB, ROAD, etc)?

I asked the husband about this earlier today, since pathology is (slightly) majority female (or was? Can't find that link anymore) and his residency was 66-75% female residents. His PhD lab was mostly female while he was there, too. He thinks no, women aren't more trouble or more drama or harder to work with/for, etc. FWIW my field of book publishing is heavily female, especially in the editorial departments, and I think the same thing. Basically men are awful at an equal rate, and are just as likely to do political maneuvering, backstabbing, enforcing of social norms, etc. Jerkdom knows no gender.


ETA: As for the peds resident, I give her a "there, there" just because it's January of intern year, and that's a notorious near-breaking point. And crying for hours after each shift (!!!) definitely makes me picture someone who lives alone and doesn't have enough of a support system. I wonder if instead of toughening up she needs the opposite--to call someone and open up and unburden herself more. That can also help in getting perspective and troubleshooting the problem a bit better.

[Deebs]

I don't think you can necessarily tell just based on specialty and from a man's point of view. He may not really see how nurses truly are treating female residents. My DH has worked at places where nurses are given free reign and defended to the point that some are practicing medicine without a license, and other places where the nurses are great - this is part of why he took his current position. I think culture and work environment play a huge role here and that varies greatly from one institution to another. I also think that one resident is not going to change the culture. She probably needs to just get through it, learn as much as she can, and find a job in a better workplace environment.

[houseelf]

Rapunzel wrote:

One of the stupid side effects of living in a patriarchal society - Women act as "enforcers" towards other women meaning women are MUCH harder on women than men in the same work environment. And, a woman with a "man's job" immediately makes her a target of these female social enforcers.

Preach it sister. Dare I say some of this "enforcement" of roles and cultural expectations have occurred in this thread? I make this controversial statement in spite of the fact that I agree with the majority of posters on this issue. Obviously the young doctor needs to figure out how to be a professional yesterday. Still, sometimes a little understanding of someone who doesn't have the same life experience and wisdom goes a long way. We've all been rookies and had to figure it out.

Auspicious wrote:

Basically men are awful at an equal rate, and are just as likely to do political maneuvering, backstabbing, enforcing of social norms, etc. Jerkdom knows no gender

. Yep. People suck. It isn't gender specific.

ETA: As for the peds resident, I give her a "there, there" just because it's January of intern year, and that's a notorious near-breaking point. And crying for hours after each shift (!!!) definitely makes me picture someone who lives alone and doesn't have enough of a support system. I wonder if instead of toughening up she needs the opposite--to call someone and open up and unburden herself more. That can also help in getting perspective and troubleshooting the problem a bit better.

ITA every intern goes through this. She handled her grievances inappropriately, but the "poor, po' pitiful me--residency and all of humanity SUCKS!" is the anthem sung by every intern.

[reciprocity]

Obviously we only get bits and pieces of the resident's story and it's interesting to see how people fill in the rest of the details.

It certainly could be a situation where she is overreacting to a typical situation and that learning how to deal with it will be an important personal and professional growth opportunity. It could also be a situation where she has done something to antagonize without knowing it and is reaping what she (perhaps inadvertently) sowed. And maybe she did everything "right" and just rubs people the wrong way, and it's the staff who are being unprofessional.

J hasn't had this problem yet, but I could imagine it happening to her, and that probably makes me a bit too sympathetic. I've seen staff be very rough on young associates here, including the anti-female "enforcing" done by female staff, and it's really problematic.

I guess we can all agree that the brownie idea was dumb as heck though.