Teacher/Professor Tenure

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

This is a big debate in NC (elementary school teachers) currently so I'm wondering what the brain trust thinks?

Do you support tenure for professors? Why/why not?
What about for elementary/secondary school teachers? Why/why not?

In NC, the current tenure system for teachers (not university professors) is that after 4 years in the same district, you're tenured and barring a significant complaint about student safety, it's very difficult to fire you. The proposed change is that after 4 years you would get tenure but that you'd be required to have satisfactory yearly evaluations and that unsatisfactory evaluations two years in a row would mean you could be terminated. Teachers are strongly opposing this legislation.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

I guess I'll show my cards...I totally support that you have to have good evaluations to continue in your position. How is it ok that you could do a poor job teaching on an ongoing basis and still keep your job? I get that you might clash with your principal, etc. but that can happen at any job. Most professionals are subject to review of their work, why are teachers different?

I'd love to hear opinions on this though because I know that I often haven't considered all the issues/perspectives.

[alotofyarn]

I don't know much about tenure outside higher academia, so I probably have a totally different opinion. Honestly, I don't think tenure means much - I think they say it's only a big deal if you try and don't get it. Generally, it means they can't fire you, but it certainly doesn't mean they have to keep paying you. And it really takes a lot of work to get as a professor (not just 4 years of work). I'm currently a non-tenure track professor for various reasons, but I'm planning to switch to the tenure track soon. My reasons aren't that I think I need tenure and plan to have a job forever, mostly it's just the natural progression of a career, and if at some point I decide I want to back off and not be TT, I'll still have that option.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

I don't know much about tenure outside higher academia, so I probably have a totally different opinion. Honestly, I don't think tenure means much - I think they say it's only a big deal if you try and don't get it. Generally, it means they can't fire you, but it certainly doesn't mean they have to keep paying you. And it really takes a lot of work to get as a professor (not just 4 years of work). I'm currently a non-tenure track professor for various reasons, but I'm planning to switch to the tenure track soon. My reasons aren't that I think I need tenure and plan to have a job forever, mostly it's just the natural progression of a career, and if at some point I decide I want to back off and not be TT, I'll still have that option.

At the university level it makes much more sense to me to have a tenure track because publications/research, etc. is a part of that and I understand you need support and stability for funding, etc.

[oceanchild]

A big tenure reform bill passed here a couple years ago. They're still trying to figure out to evaluate teachers fairly. I think the main sticking point is whether teachers should be evaluated based on their students' standardized test scores. It's sort of a fundamental question about education policy that we haven't really addressed - are standardized test scores giving us an adequate picture of what students are learning?

[McPants]

Although this may not strictly be an issue that relates directly to whether or not there should be tenure in academia; from what I've been led to believe, in the last decade or so, the U.S. job market for academics has turned into rather an extreme two-tiered system in which a clear majority of PhDs will never be able to attain tenure. As a result of this, these people will have to resign themselves to taking on adjunct teaching positions that offer very low pay, usually no health insurance and hardly any job security or trying to get jobs outside of academia (provided that their skills are transferable to the private sector). I am certainly not suggesting that there should be any kind of a guarantee for TT-positions after graduation, however it appears like the chance of gaining one is now so slim that it would be hard to recommend even the brightest of students to progress towards postgraduate education.

Furthermore, FWIW, most foreign academics I know (me being one of them) wouldn't even consider applying for jobs in the U.S. these days due to the nature of the job market over there.

Some recent texts on this topic: Al Jazeera, Inside HigherEd, AAUP report.

[Thirteen]

Very true, McPants!


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