The government shutdown and the debt ceiling

[Rapunzel]

On a wandering tangent: In a single payer healthcare system does it become illegal for doctors to administer care to others during a government shutdown? I'm reading reports of armed parks service employees preventing people from taking pictures of bison on the grounds that "recreating"is forbidden during a shutdown (word used). If "recreating" could be forbidden IF we moved to single payer could medical care be forbidden (by armed guards, even)?

[HouseofWool]

I don't know, but I am trying to enroll a new provider into Medicare right now and I have NO idea if the shutdown will impact how long it takes. I cannot imagine that provider enrollment is considered "essential".

[ides]

I would assume it would be an essential service just like the post office, police, etc.

[SuzySunshine]

I don't know - it seems like I'm hearing of an awful lot of NIH trials that have been stopped in the current shut down, how is taking these patients possible life saving trials away from them any different??

[SoonerTexan]

Hmm..I guess that depends on who defines "essential" and I'm not sure who does, or if it could become another political weapon.

[GrayMatterWife]

They are both to blame. Obama is insufferably smug and arrogant (loved his slip-up at today's press conference, when he quickly had to correct himself about not having flaws). I hope he suffers as much as he is making everyone else suffer with his horrible economy and infantilizing sanctimony. And the Republicans have no plan whatsoever, that I can tell. Throwing a tizzy fit is not a plan. Trying to change a completely shitty law by defunding it is like a kindergartner grabbing his ball and going home when the kids on the playground don't want to play kickball by his rules.

But I also don't care. yay, shutdown. Shut down the whole f**king government except the military, the courts (esp. the federal criminal courts), and current SS obligations, for the next year. We'll save a lot of money and I suspect we'll miss the services a whole hell of a lot less that we think. People will start to figure out how to do things on their own instead of relying on Nanny Fed. I work for the federal government. Want to know how much of our office's job is being done "less" due to the shut down? None. Zero. It is just being done a lot more efficiently. We could be doing the same damn thing on half the staff. I hope this mess teaches everyone a lesson in how unessential and unimportant a LOT of Nanny Fed really is.

[GrayMatterWife]

On a wandering tangent: In a single payer healthcare system does it become illegal for doctors to administer care to others during a government shutdown? I'm reading reports of armed parks service employees preventing people from taking pictures of bison on the grounds that "recreating"is forbidden during a shutdown (word used). If "recreating" could be forbidden IF we moved to single payer could medical care be forbidden (by armed guards, even)?

The ADministration is just morally despicable. They are deliberately seeking to make people suffer for their chess game. Horrible people.

Not that the Republicans are any better.

[WolfpackWife]

They are both to blame. Obama is insufferably smug and arrogant (loved his slip-up at today's press conference, when he quickly had to correct himself about not having flaws). I hope he suffers as much as he is making everyone else suffer with his horrible economy and infantilizing sanctimony. And the Republicans have no plan whatsoever, that I can tell. Throwing a tizzy fit is not a plan. Trying to change a completely shitty law by defunding it is like a kindergartner grabbing his ball and going home when the kids on the playground don't want to play kickball by his rules.

But I also don't care. yay, shutdown. Shut down the whole f**king government except the military, the courts (esp. the federal criminal courts), and current SS obligations, for the next year. We'll save a lot of money and I suspect we'll miss the services a whole hell of a lot less that we think. People will start to figure out how to do things on their own instead of relying on Nanny Fed. I work for the federal government. Want to know how much of our office's job is being done "less" due to the shut down? None. Zero. It is just being done a lot more efficiently. We could be doing the same damn thing on half the staff. I hope this mess teaches everyone a lesson in how unessential and unimportant a LOT of Nanny Fed really is.

I...I think I might love you....

[Sheherezade]

FWIW, DH says none of the cancer trials he runs are shut down. I suppose the ones that are physically at NIH might be, the ones here are ongoing and there has been no affect on patients within them or new enrollment.

One of the things I wonder about with the budget situation is what would happen with unemployment as we trim the government payroll. It is bloated. So is healthcare. So is the insurance industry. Obviously everything could be "leaner and meaner" - but doesn't that mean that a re large percent of our population will then be unemployed? And how does that then affect the economy?

For me, I've settled on the idea that we can't get anything done because whatever we do needs to be slow, careful and committed. Some type of 10 year plan to get spending under control, trim the government back, change the tax code, etc. Unfortunately SLOW, CAREFUL and COMMITTED are not the strong suit of politicians looking at a 2 year election cycle.

[GrayMatterWife]

Sorry, but I disregard anything that includes Fox News and MSNBC style made-up words like "Neocons", "Nanny Fed", etc. The argument loses all credibility for me when buzzwords that have been fed by spin doctors come into the conversation. I don't refer to tea partiers as tea baggers for that very reason.

I know how you feel. I ignore everything that the main stream media lapdogs say about Obama. I think I snapped sometime shortly after Obama was elected, when the NYT ran an article in which the writer explained how she loved the Obamas because--finally!--there was a White House couple that she could imagine having sex. Obama is just one big orgasm for them. It's like watching a 13-year-old with a crush. It is a complete abdication of their journalistic integrity. I used to watch almost every news channel. Now I listen to Bloomberg, FoxNews, and C-SPAN. That's pretty much it. I don't even know who is on MSNBC anymore (other than Maddow, who is clever, but I never watch).

I thought I made up "Nanny Fed." Has someone else been using my phrase?? Haha. I use it because it is absolutely apt in describing exactly how I feel about this sanctimonious, condescending administration that is deeply convinced that it knows better, morally and actually, than anyone with whom they have a disagreement. They want to tax or humiliate anyone with a difference into submission.

I do not use "chickenhawk," which is a phrase that has been used recently to described people on either side of the aisle (but usually conservatives) when they use the debt ceiling or budget as political leverage. I think it is as nasty and tacky as 'tea baggers'--everyone knows that these phrases have sexual meanings, as well.

[Rapunzel]

Neocon is a term that first came into use by people referring to themselves as neoconservatives. Neocon is an epithet for people such as myself who eschew the goals of neoconservatives, but it is an an accepted term as is the label Tea Party.

[MarissaNicole]

DH had a veteran come in today and while the veterans hospital is still running he can't get the appropriate care he needs because of the shut down. Absolutely shameful.

The treatment he can't get isn't DH's department but it does limit how successful DH's treatment will be.

Wife to PGY4

[scrub-jay]

DH had a veteran come in today and while the veterans hospital is still running he can't get the appropriate care he needs because of the shut down. Absolutely shameful.

The treatment he can't get isn't DH's department but it does limit how successful DH's treatment will be.

Wife to PGY4

That's interesting, I asked my DH the same thing (he's also at a VA) and he said he hasn't seen any impact from the shutdown on quality of care nor on availability of services. Keep in mind, my DH isn't surgical so it might be apples to oranges.

[corn poffi]

Our VA's surgical services are still business as usual.

However, if the VA that Marissa's talking about is the one I'm thinking of, it often has problems coping with the huge patient load in that area, so I'm sure being short-staffed isn't helping them one bit.