Debate of the week: Fining the parents of bullies

[Pollyanna]

I saw this on the Scholastic website and thought it would make for an interesting discussion. So what say you? I need to formulate more of an opinion but my gut reaction is that parents do bare some responsibility but I also know not everything in the land of raising children is black and white so I'm not sure this will be an easy question to answer.

Lawmakers in Monona, Wisconsin, say it’s time for someone to pay the price for bullying. But it’s not the bullies who will be paying up—it’s their parents! A new law there fines parents as much as $177 if their kids are caught bullying.

The law is meant to send a message about a serious problem. About 13 million kids across the country are bullied each year. Officials in Monona argue that if parents are forced to pay a fine, they will try harder to fix their kids’ bad behavior.

But many people think the bullies, not their parents, should be held responsible for their actions. After all, they say, parents can’t keep track of their kids at all times. Others say the law will be hard to enforce, because bullying victims often have a hard time proving what happened.

What do you think?

[diggitydot]

If a parent actively encourages the bullying, oh hell yes. If the parent has been actively attempting to deal with the issue, no.

FWIW, the term "bullying" sometimes becomes co-opted to simply mean "someone who doesn't like me" instead of the systemic and intentional infliction of emotional and/or physical harm. Fining someone because their kid doesn't like someone else's kid? No dice. Fining someone who actively encourages their kid to systemically inflict physical or emotional harm? Abso-fucking-lutely.

[Ladybug]

I think it would be a legal nightmare to prove.

IMO the bully still needs to be the one reprimanded and educated. Maybe the family should be required to participate in family counseling, but I'm not sure who would cover that cost. $177 would cover an average of three counseling sessions cash adjusted. Most people wouldn't be able to shell that cash out for weekly individual and family sessions. Maybe they should be offer mandated family counseling through public school services.

[MAPPLEBUM]

My reservation is when the bullying is a symptom of abuse at home. If an abusive parent is at risk of being fined or is actually fined it would probably intensify the abuse on their children. In fact, it's hard to imagine a severely aggressive kid who DOESN'T have serious issues at home.

[diggitydot]

In fact, it's hard to imagine a severely aggressive kid who DOESN'T have serious issues at home.

You might be surprised how many assholes or people with issues can come from decent homes.

[BonBon]

That's an excellent point, Mapplebum.

I don't know what the solutions are, but I agree that unless the bullying is clear-cut, it will be difficult to prove.

[LadyFoot]

That find could go toward paying for counseling...

On the other hand creating that find in I self would be a risky move, especially the kid learned bullying from their parents. I could see parents taking schools to court for 'labeling' their kids as bullies, especially if another kid who reports the bullying. I'd also be afraid of bully parents verbally or physically abusing their kids as punishment. Stuff like that happens way too often.

I'd like to see mentorship included in the solution for bullying in schools, both for the bully and for their victims. Of course, you have the issue if finding the mentors, but so often (though certainly not always) bullies don't have an example at home of how to be a responsible adult ( and therefore a responsible kid!) Bullying is a complex issue with no easy answers, but I'm not sure just punishing the bully (or their parents) is a way to change anything.

[SoonerTexan]

I think it would be a legal nightmare to prove.

Yeah, that. I agree with others that there are probably more productive ways to address the issue. I don't think a fine is going to make a parent who isn't addressing the issue suddenly turn around. It's just going to piss them off.

[Ladybug]

I think the schools could establish a one-two-three system for identifying kids with a pattern of aggression. The parents would be notified, required to attend meetings with the principle and counselor and informed of the procedures/repercussions (whatever they may be) for repeat offenses. The families should have a process available to dispute.

[PrincessFiona]

No.

This is just another way to pass the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of parents. I agree with what Wendy said: nice homes can produce assholes. It will not always be the case that a family is negligent, abusive, or encouraging bullying. I can think of one family that we know where there son displays bullying behavior and they are actively trying to change this through counseling. Kid is still just a jerk. Though I think some parents may bare responsibility by poor example, abuse or neglect, I don't believe this is generally the case. It makes for an explanation that we feel we can connect with, but the mean girl tactics in schools (which my daughter was a victim of, as was I) are much more socially complicated than that (I believe). It would be a far more constructive use of our court system to help develop and provide adequate resources. If this policy is enacted, will 'good' parents be punished along with 'bad' parents? What's next? Should a parent be fined for every indiscretion of the child?

I believe we should empower the schools to take action against bullying in schools. A major weakness of bullying education is that there is little follow-through on zero-tolerance policies.

Often times, parents of good kids are shocked to learn that their child has engaged in bullying behavior and some don't believe it. Schools are not permitted anymore to deal with the behavior as they see fit ... through suspension, detention, etc. They are afraid of the parent responses. I think if bullying is to be stopped in schools, administrators should enforce bullying behavior through disciplinary measures whether parents are opposed or not. We experienced situations in which there was clear, blatant evidence of bullying and school administrators literally said they could do nothing because the offending child's parents wouldn't "go for it." Give the power back to the principals.

If there is bullying behavior over facebook or at home then I think the child can be held accountable ... not the parent. In cases of extreme abuse to a peer, this would mean a child could potentially be charged with assault of some sort and be detained or forced into court-ordered therapy.

I'm not into blaming the parents for everything that goes wrong with kids. Why? As a mom of 5, I've watched some of my kids make mistakes despite my guidance and the example that my husband and I provide. None of them have engaged in bullying behavior that I know of, and if they did, there would be hell to pay ... but I have kids who are imperfect even though I try to be a good enough parent to them.

My daughter went through a period years ago where she refused to go to school. We tried everything from counseling to me, personally, calling the police in the morning and having them come to our house when she refused to get dressed. I was serious about her not being allowed to be truant. I talked regularly with the school about her skipping classes (It was the worst year of my life as a mom) and nearly lost my mind. I met regularly with school administrators, enforced rules, called the cops on my own child ..... AND at the end of it all, the school reported me for negligently allowing my daughter to be truant. They apologized when they did it, but who cares. At the end of the day, nothing came of this. I had more than shown that I was working to solve the problem. Fast forward a couple of years and my daughter only misses school if she is actually ill, gets herself out of be and ready each morning, and is making the best grades of her life.

But as a mom, I had NO control when she was misbehaving. It was terribly disheartening and having the blame placed on me made me angrier at my child and I dare say more aggressive in my approach to her.

Parents are not grand master puppeteers as much as we believe we are.

Hold kids responsible for their behaviors through mandatory counseling (which might include family counseling) or even exposure to the criminal justice system.

[Pollyanna]

Drive by post here. Great points Kris. I will say that our kids went to a zero tolerance school for bullying. The policy was stupid. Cops called, report written for every offense. It was overkill and rarely was real bullying involved.

Also I agree that kids from good homes can be a&$holes.

[ladymoreta]

I think it's a terrible idea, too. A kid does something wrong, and someone else gets punished for it? Wonderful lesson... *roll eyes* And yes, the crying wolf about bullying is out of hand, so much so that real cases are not handled as well as they could be.

[Cinderella]

We just had a case where on the first day at a new school a second grade boy was suspended for giving a female classmate a nose bleed. It was a zero tolerance school but both of the kids said it was an accident. They were waiting in line and the girl cut in line and the boy, as children do, reacted and pulled her back to her place in line but accidentally ended up smacking her in the face doing it. The teachers didn't see it happen but knew he'd caused the nose bleed. He was sent to the office where he was suspended for causing the nose bleed and the parents were called in. The parents of the girl understood from their daughter is was an accident. The parents of the boy didn't understand why their son was suspended if it was an accident. They asked what kind of message does that send to their son and his self esteem to be suspended over an accident, but the school said sorry we have a zero tolerance policy. The parents of the boy were so upset and shocked about how their son was treated that they took him out of the school and placed him in another school. They believe their son is a good kids and was innocent. He didn't mean for what happened.

[diggitydot]

Zero-tolerance policies are almost useless. They don't allow for commensurate reactions to situations. No one wants illegal drugs in schools, but disallowing cough drops? Yeah, that's dumb.