Matt Walsh: Robin Williams didn't die from a disease he died from his choice

[alotofyarn]

Because I don't have any personal experience with this but wanted to understand it from a certain perspective, I asked a friend who has experienced it, and who is also a Christian marriage & family therapist. I really liked his response to the article:

Matt's take on depression and suicide feels simplistic and lacking in both understanding and compassion. Does suicide come down to a choice? Yes, but Walsh makes it sound as simple and as obvious as choosing whether to eat a grapefruit versus a grenade. Does suicide devastate loved ones for a very long time? Absolutely. But what Matt doesn't understand because he's never been on the brink is that suicide is not a rational thought or a step taken with clear vision of the present/future. Hopelessness sets in and all is dark. In that moment escape and relief from the dragon is accepted at any price. I'm not defending it, only explaining it. And Matt Walsh doesn't get it because if he did he would not have written anything that feels so naive. If he had ever really stood on the brink with his toes hanging over the edge he would know that it's more than just a "choice" that makes you step back.

[SoonerTexan]

Matt Walsh: Robin Williams didn't die from a disease he died from his choice

I actually think he had a very good point as far as the language around suicide--"better place" "peace" and what not. That's really not what someone who is suicidal needs to hear. Killing yourself is not going to get you to a better place or bring peace. It almost presents it as a valid option to getting better.

Think about how the genie Instagram in the post must read to Robin Williams' family.

I don't know that I am totally in line with the rest of his post or his conclusion (I've only had time to skim to the end), but I think he was trying to make a different point than what most people are reading this as.

[spotty_dog]

I used to think that Matt Walsh was just an opinionated conservative like some of my friends. But for several months now I have felt that he is a ginormous douche, trolling for clicks, and I categorically refuse to give him any. I like the phrase I saw earlier today: I wouldn't touch his blog with a dog's dick tied to a ten-foot pole.

Mental illness including depression deserves understanding and compassion, 110%.

[Vanquisher]

I used to think that Matt Walsh was just an opinionated conservative like some of my friends. But for several months now I have felt that he is a ginormous douche, trolling for clicks, and I categorically refuse to give him any. I like the phrase I saw earlier today: I wouldn't touch his blog with a dog's dick tied to a ten-foot pole.

Mental illness including depression deserves understanding and compassion, 110%.

Here, here! I had never heard of this particular douchekabob before, but I will never click on another one of his blog posts.

[diggitydot]

Matt Walsh: Robin Williams didn't die from a disease he died from his choice

For religious peeps, my guess is that "being at peace" isn't possible for suicides with all the hellfire and brimstone involved for unrepentant mortal sinners. For those of us who aren't religious, death doesn't include that.

When someone is living a life of horrible pain where death feels like a release to them, then that is what I choose to believe they find when they pass, regardless of how, why, when, or in what matter their death occurs.

MW's implication that people aren't choosing joy enough and are therefore depressed is harmful and offensive. It highlights a COMPLETE misunderstanding of the condition and how utterly debilitating and desolate it can be for some people. It smacks of shaming those with mental health issues for not being spiritual enough, which besides being assy, also ignores basic biology and body chemistry.

[SoonerTexan]

Matt Walsh: Robin Williams didn't die from a disease he died from his choice

For the record, I don't believe suicide=automatic hell. That wasn't my bent at all.

If someone you love commits suicide, do you really want to essentially hear, "it was for the best?" That's my point. It's an awful loss, not a valid, okay, outcome to depression. I get the need to try and celebrate his life, though.

I wish I had avoided this thread. I had a feeling I should have.

[alotofyarn]

I agree with you, ST.

[Pollyanna]

Hmmm, I'm not sure which faith responds to suicide with hellfire and brimstone but it is not the response if the Catholic Church. Below find the Catholic teaching and approach. The focus is on love and mercy. Note: did not read the Matt Walsh opinion, I have the Catechism and compassion in my heart, nothing else is necessary.

"What is the Catholic Church’s teaching on suicide? Do people who take their own lives go to hell? My son committed suicide. In the note he left, he said he was going to hell for this, but didn’t know what else to do. He made many mistakes, and I made lots of mistakes raising him. I’m truly sorry.
- D.B., Minnesota


No one can appreciate the unimaginable pain that is the ultimate explanation for such a tragic action. No one, therefore, can judge a person whose choice we cannot fathom, whose life we can remember, but cannot restore, and whose pain we cannot understand. This is how the Church tends to look upon suicide today.

The Church teaches that suicide is wrong; it is contrary to the Fifth Commandment. It is an action that runs counter to the proper love of self, as well as love for God, the giver of life. We are stewards of our lives, not owners. The person who takes his or her own life also wrongs others — those who remain experience loss, bewilderment, and grief. You won’t find anything in that teaching about going to hell.

Pity, not condemnation, is the response of the Church. Prayers are offered for the deceased. Mass is celebrated. Burial with dignity, in consecrated ground, is provided for one who dies this way. Not that long ago, Christian burial was denied to those who took their own lives. There may have been another denial at work in those days, too — denial of our inability to understand the pain. We assumed that those who chose to take their own lives were acting freely and under no psychological distress or illness. Or worse, there may have been a denial of responsibility to try to understand the pain. As your son said in the note he left behind, he just didn’t know what else to do.

So for those of us who remain, the Church encourages paying attention to the pain that produced the action. Then, look forward, not back, to pain within ourselves and pain in others, especially when we see no signs and hear no calls for help.

Why do we avoid speaking to one another about inner pain? Why are we not more sensitive to the pain in others’ hearts, or able to read the pain in others’ eyes? Why do we spend millions for “pain relief ” over the counter or by prescription, but not spend the time it takes to encourage those who may be hurting to open up? This kind of thinking is all now part of the Church’s pastoral response to the tragedy of suicide.

It seems to me that there has to be some mysterious insulation enveloping those who commit suicide. Tragically, their minds cannot be read by those around them, nor can they reach out and ask for help. Again, the unimaginable pain.

The Church teaches through liturgy, and the liturgy on occasions like these stresses divine mercy. Take a look at Psalm 103, and recall the dimensions of God’s mercy — as far as the east is from the west, as high as the skies are above the earth.

The Church still teaches that there is a hell, but leaves it to God to decide who should go there. And divine decisions, in this regard, are filtered through divine mercy. Tragedy at the end of this life is no sure sign of an eternal tragedy in the next." CD

[diggitydot]

Yikes. I don't know anyone who'd respond to the death of a loved one with "it's for the best", regardless of their manner of passing. That's just an awful response under any circumstance.

[diggitydot]

Matt Walsh: Robin Williams didn't die from a disease he died from his choice

I've been to the funerals (more than one and of different religions) of people who took their own lives and listened as the religious leaders their family brought in speak about how the dead person made selfish choices and would burn in hell for it, verbatim.

[SoonerTexan]

I'm sorry to hear that. That's not what I believe or what my religion teaches.

[GrayMatterWife]

For religious peeps, my guess is that "being at peace" isn't possible for suicides with all the hellfire and brimstone involved for unrepentant mortal sinners.

Not here. I'm religious. How one dies is not related to whether one is at peace after death.

[GrayMatterWife]

I've been to the funerals (more than one and of different religions) of people who took their own lives and listened as the religious leaders their family brought in speak about how the dead person made selfish choices and would burn in hell for it, verbatim.

Without any sense of irony, I can only comment: "Jesus...seriously? Wow. super christian..." (can't comment on other faiths but I feel free to be snarky about my own!)

We pray for the souls of people who die by suicide just as we pray for the souls of people who OD, or who die of auto-erotic asphyxiation, or cancer, or a car accident. Suicide is not seen as a selfish act. It seen as a consequence of living in a broken world, among broken people who experience pain. It isn't a statement about one's state of grace.

[Ladybug]

What I mean by fleeting, limited, ill-influenced, neurologically immature moments of choice regarding depression is how we choose to respond to a pain we didn't choose. Robin chose cocaine. At one point it was a choice of free will, but through habitual use that freedom can be lost and mental illness progresses. Same with alcohol. But most people would rather be your fun friend than your listening friend. I'm not saying he chose to be bipolar, but we do make some choices in how we respond to pain. It's not black and white or 100%, but if we say there is no choice then we are also saying there is nothing we can do for our loved ones except watch it unfold in front of us. That's not the world I want to live in either. Btw, I've never heard of this guy and I only follow home decorating and fashion blogs.

[MrsK]

Well, I don't think it's hard to figure out where the most vocal (lone?) psych spouse on this forum stands. I understand where people would be confused about the amount of free will a person has when they are battling mental illness. Just like people have difficulty understanding what psychiatrists do. Oftentimes, mental illness appears to be subjective. Everyone gets the blues and we can relate to that. But, like many other forms of mental illness, clinical depression is a greater degree of an experience, emotion, thought process that we all experience on a smaller scale. The language of mental health care is different than the language used in other specialties. People "choose to enter rehab," "check themselves into hospitals," or are forced into care by way of interventions and legal commitment. The symptoms of mental illness often include socially inappropriate behaviour that is hurtful to others. Some therapies require patients to acknowledge and apologize for that behaviour (e.g. Alcoholics Anonymous). And if someone does not take their meds, skips their meetings, checks themselves out of rehab then they are shunned for refusing treatment.

People don't understand that someone who is getting dialysis or chemotherapy is also choosing treatment for their illness. People neglect their bodies in many ways. People don't eat well, skip the gym, smoke.... these "choices" contribute to heart disease, hypertension, diabetes, and a host of other health problems. Then people are not compliant with their treatment. The diabetic will sneak sweets now and then. Someone with hypertension will forget to take their medications. Still, no one demonizes people who have heart attacks. When someone has a heart attack, there isn't anyone standing over their graves saying that they shouldn't have eaten so many steaks and that doing so was a selfish choice on their part.

Some people think that the disease model discourages people with mental illness from getting treatment. I don't think anyone is saying that there is nothing that can be done for people with mental illness. Treatments are available for mental illness just like there is treatment available for other illnesses. And just like other treatments, mental health treatments may or may not be effective for specific individuals. And, just like other treatments, mental health treatments can have undesirable side effects and the patient is entitled to autonomy and can decide whether to discontinue treatments.

I could go on.....