Should Jenner have won the Ashe award?

[admin]

http://athlonsports.com/overtime/peo...-galloway-espn

I was supportive of her coming out etc but I think th award for this should have gone to Lauren Hill...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alotofyarn]

No, I don't think so, and I honestly don't think we need to make a big deal out of it at all. The whole LGBTQ doesn't want to be treated differently, but then they take the spotlight for things like this - I don't understand it at all. Can't we all just do whatever and go on with our lives without making a big deal out of everything?

[poky]

Maybe we should be "making a big deal out of it" because almost HALF of transgender people attempt suicide, because huge parts of society would prefer that they didn't exist, because "ew...that's gross" or "God doesn't make mistakes" or whatever other reason one might have for considering trans people freaks instead of human beings? "Not treating them differently" means continued marginalization. Better Caitlyn Jenner "taking the spotlight", to me, than the Duggars. She's in a position to make a huge difference to a lot of trans kids whose parents might think twice about rejecting them, now.

I'm not saying there aren't others who might also deserve the ESPY, but seriously, transitioning publicly did take HUGE amounts of courage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth
http://www.speakingofsuicide.com/201...ender-suicide/
http://www.vocativ.com/culture/lgbt/...ender-suicide/

[MsSassyBaskets]

Maybe we should be "making a big deal out of it" because almost HALF of transgender people attempt suicide, because huge parts of society would prefer that they didn't exist, because "ew...that's gross" or "God doesn't make mistakes" or whatever other reason one might have for considering trans people freaks instead of human beings? "Not treating them differently" means continued marginalization. Better Caitlyn Jenner "taking the spotlight", to me, than the Duggars. She's in a position to make a huge difference to a lot of trans kids whose parents might think twice about rejecting them, now.

I'm not saying there aren't others who might also deserve the ESPY, but seriously, transitioning publicly did take HUGE amounts of courage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth
http://www.speakingofsuicide.com/201...ender-suicide/
http://www.vocativ.com/culture/lgbt/...ender-suicide/

Yes. Thank you.

[MsSassyBaskets]

I can't really speak for who should have won though... I've never heard of the other two so I guess Caitlyn Jenner make the most sense to me!

[Sheherezade]

I think part f the backlash for Caitlyn's very public transition is based on the very public every-stinking -thing of the Kardashian family. People have an opinion about their motives. It doesn't mean she's part of that, but it does sully the message. I try to imagine the reaction if this was some other well known person from a less fame seeking clan. It plays differently in my head.

FWIW, I've yet to encounter a person who is horrified or upset with this. The negative reactions have to do with making personal lives so public, not the transition itself.

I don't even know what the Espy award is. Lol


Angie

[medpedspouse]

What Angie said. I think the big to do has to do with the whole Kardashian thing. Now, if she was donating all proceeds to some advocacy group for transgendered people, my views may not be so jaded. I think it takes an enrmous amount of courage to continue living in a society that marginalizes you or living in a way that it is not you. Many do not have the means to afford the surgeries involved and if they did, do not have access to make up artists, wardrobe, stylists and photoshop to help with the transition...while cashing in.

I also find it interesting that Cher's daughter/now son never got this level of press. Seeeeee, I cannot even remembet his name. Could it be because it is more understandable to become a man than a woman? If so, that is a whole other issue.

[poky]

I also find it interesting that Cher's daughter/now son never got this level of press. Seeeeee, I cannot even remembet his name. Could it be because it is more understandable to become a man than a woman? If so, that is a whole other issue.

Yeah, that's probably part of it, too, for whatever sexist reason.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

Well yeah, she's rich and frankly annoying (if you've ever watched their show). I read an article by the vogue stylist who did the shoot and she said that Caitlyn already had all the nice cars, the jewels, etc that she would usually borrow for the shoot.

It was brave to transition but I don't think it's as brave if you're a working stiff who might face violence, marginalization, loss of income or worse. I realize it's personally scary but she's going to be FINE financially, etc. This is 2015, it was sort of a given that her bubble in Hollywood would be fairly accepting. So, while I think it was brave, I don't know if I think she is a hero. A hero (in my mind), has to do things that benefit others substantially and (so far), I haven't her Caitlyn talk about or raise money for significant advocacy for the trans community, etc. I realize publicly transitioning may allow others to do so because they see her do it but that's a very indirect benefit in my mind.

So, I don't think she's a true hero. Brave, sure. Fame seeking, definitely.

[MrsK]

I do think that publicly transitioning is courageous for the reasons that poky said and that she is a role model for transgender people, even if she has means that most people do not. Having those resources allows her to do this so publicly and gives her a platform that is unavailable to most people. Now everyone in America "knows" someone who is transgender. People are talking about transition in a different and more accepting way now. And that goes for the entertainment community too. I mean, consider how long men in drag has been considered funny. How many movies/SNL skits/jokes have been made about men in women's clothing or ambiguously gendered people. (And that's a whole other story. No one laughs when Viola dresses as a man in a Shakespeare play but any man in a dress is funny -- this probably goes to the way women and femininity are perceived in our culture too.) While America has become more accepting that it used to be, transitioning on the cover of Vanity Fair is still a brave thing to do at a time when many people who have to means to transition and who live such a public life would use those funds to buy silence and just stay in the closet. I see the award along the same lines as people who broke the ethnic barrier in professional sports and other fields. They became role models and opened the door for marginalized people.

As for Cher's son...his name is Chaz Bono. I don't think he has the resources or the platform that Jenner has. His appearance is much more in keeping with what you'd expect to see of a transgender person. It just doesn't make the same impact as when a male olympian who lived his life as a masculine role model for so many boys (now adults) in this country coming out in a corset and hair extensions looking like a female super-model. Also, Chaz just doesn't get the same scrutiny because people just don't scrutinize men the same way that they do women. Now that Jenner is a women, people will talk about her appearance far more and about her accomplishments far less.

[medpedspouse]

Well, I still do not get it. If Jenner was doing something for others without gaining anything in return, I would think otherwise. Disclaimer, this judgement comes from what I know based on what the media has put out. My mental model comes from learning that there are people who have and are struggling and do not think Jenner did them any favors.

[MrsK]

I don't think the other candidates were doing anything selfless either. Lauren Hill had a brain tumor and she played college basketball because she wanted to play basketball. She wasn't doing it for anybody else.

[MsSassyBaskets]

I do think that publicly transitioning is courageous for the reasons that poky said and that she is a role model for transgender people, even if she has means that most people do not. Having those resources allows her to do this so publicly and gives her a platform that is unavailable to most people. Now everyone in America "knows" someone who is transgender. People are talking about transition in a different and more accepting way now. And that goes for the entertainment community too. I mean, consider how long men in drag has been considered funny. How many movies/SNL skits/jokes have been made about men in women's clothing or ambiguously gendered people. (And that's a whole other story. No one laughs when Viola dresses as a man in a Shakespeare play but any man in a dress is funny -- this probably goes to the way women and femininity are perceived in our culture too.) While America has become more accepting that it used to be, transitioning on the cover of Vanity Fair is still a brave thing to do at a time when many people who have to means to transition and who live such a public life would use those funds to buy silence and just stay in the closet. I see the award along the same lines as people who broke the ethnic barrier in professional sports and other fields. They became role models and opened the door for marginalized people.

As for Cher's son...his name is Chaz Bono. I don't think he has the resources or the platform that Jenner has. His appearance is much more in keeping with what you'd expect to see of a transgender person. It just doesn't make the same impact as when a male olympian who lived his life as a masculine role model for so many boys (now adults) in this country coming out in a corset and hair extensions looking like a female super-model. Also, Chaz just doesn't get the same scrutiny because people just don't scrutinize men the same way that they do women. Now that Jenner is a women, people will talk about her appearance far more and about her accomplishments far less.

Really nicely put.

[GrayMatterWife]

Thanks, Jenner, for making your first pictures as a woman be in a corset, being highly sexualized.

Not impressed with the choice of costuming at all. Another celebrity dancing around in underwear.

If you want to join the Girl Club, could you maybe help the cause? There are LOTS of amazing ways to be feminine without being in your undies.

[Vanquisher]

I have to agree with [MENTION=1049]poky[/MENTION] and [MENTION=1498]MrsK[/MENTION]
. If just she is able to help one teenager live a more authentic life, or to say SHE did it, and SHE was Bruce Freaking Jenner, than I can do this too and not kill myself.